ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
I kind of agree and kind of not agree because not all of the crimes covered under that umbrella are equal.

Of course, we could be like one of my extreme right wing friends who's reaction to this story was "Obama isn't even trying to hide his hatred of America. This isn't what the Founders had in mind!"

DutchWinsAll wrote:
When it comes to cannabis, anything that doesn't allow for legal age citizens to grow 6 or more plants in their own home like CO, is bunk. I'm fine taxing retail stores, just like alcohol, but to still criminalize a plant growing at someone's house is just beyond asinine.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Agreed on not all being equal... And perhaps it's a bit of societal bias, but I just think that pedophiles should have to report such. I don't know, maybe it's a bit extreme, because some part of me would hope that someone who did time for one of those sorts of crimes wouldn't be trying to apply for a job where they'd be around kids again...

And yeah... that friend probably should read the constitution or something, because while I'm no lawyer, even I know that our system is set up (in theory) to allow those who have paid their debt to society to reintegrate into it.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Here's the difference between you and I: I think he knows what he's doing, I just don't agree with it. You just think he's an idiot.

Moving on, Obama actually did something I very much agree with (and I didn't see anyone bring it up yet):

Obama Bans Hiring Bias Against Ex-Cons Seeking Federal Jobs

On Monday, President Obama is announcing a new order to reduce potential discrimination against former convicts in the hiring process for federal government employees.

It is a step towards what many criminal justice reformers call "ban the box" - the effort to eliminate requirements that job applicants check a box on their applications if they have a criminal record. While the rule was once seen as a common sense way for employers to screen for criminal backgrounds, it has been increasingly criticized as a hurdle that fosters employment discrimination against former inmates, regardless of the severity of their offense or how long ago it occurred. Banning the box delays when employers learn of an applicant's record.

President Obama is unveiling the plan on a visit to a treatment center in New Jersey, a state where Republican Gov. Chris Christie signed a ban the box bill into law last year. Hillary Clinton endorsed ban the box last week, while Republican Sen. Rand Paul also introduced similar federal legislation, with Democrat Cory Booker, to seal criminal records for non-violent offenders.

The White House says it is "encouraged" by such legislation in a new statement, but emphasizes the president's order will take immediate action, mandating that the federal government's HR department "delay inquiries into criminal history until later in the hiring process."

President Obama spoke to several federal prisoners about that very approach in July, when he was the first sitting president to visit an American prison.

"If the disclosure of a criminal record happens later in a job application process," he told them, "you're more likely to be hired." Obama described what many studies show - that when many employers see the box checked for an applicant's criminal record, they weed them out without ever looking at their qualifications.

"If they have a chance to at least meet you," the president continued, "you're able to talk to them about your life, what you've done, maybe they give you a chance."

About 60-to-75% of former inmates cannot find work within their first year out of jail, according to the Justice Department, a huge impediment to re-entering society.

Research shows the existence of a criminal record can reduce an employer's interest in applicant by about 50%, and that when white and black applicants both have records, employers are far less likely to call back a black applicant than a white one. As a 2009 re-entry study in New York city found, "the criminal record penalty suffered by white applicants (30%) is roughly half the size of the penalty for blacks with a record (60%)."

Obama's move also comes in the wake of a growing movement for criminal justice reform - from broad calls by groups like Blacks Lives Matter to a specific campaign on ban the box that ranged from half the Senate Democratic caucus to civil rights groups to artists like John Legend.

The President is announcing several other measures Monday, including public housing and money for re-entry programs, and he is speaking about prison reform in a speech and an exclusive interview with NBC Nightly News Anchor Lester Holt.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
This is too funny to be true, right?

When asked at a recent event what non politicians he would like to have a beer with, Marco Rubio said Gary Kasparov (Because former chess champions and Russian dissidents have gotta be a blast, but ok), Dan Marino (probably was a Dolphins fan growing up, no problem there, and Malala Yousafzai (umm, she is an underage Muslim).

 Ouze wrote:
At the very least they can do Marry, Bang, Kill instead.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Moving on, Obama actually did something I very much agree with (and I didn't see anyone bring it up yet):

Obama Bans Hiring Bias Against Ex-Cons Seeking Federal Jobs

On Monday, President Obama is announcing a new order to reduce potential discrimination against former convicts in the hiring process for federal government employees.

It is a step towards what many criminal justice reformers call "ban the box" - the effort to eliminate requirements that job applicants check a box on their applications if they have a criminal record. While the rule was once seen as a common sense way for employers to screen for criminal backgrounds, it has been increasingly criticized as a hurdle that fosters employment discrimination against former inmates, regardless of the severity of their offense or how long ago it occurred. Banning the box delays when employers learn of an applicant's record.

President Obama is unveiling the plan on a visit to a treatment center in New Jersey, a state where Republican Gov. Chris Christie signed a ban the box bill into law last year. Hillary Clinton endorsed ban the box last week, while Republican Sen. Rand Paul also introduced similar federal legislation, with Democrat Cory Booker, to seal criminal records for non-violent offenders.

The White House says it is "encouraged" by such legislation in a new statement, but emphasizes the president's order will take immediate action, mandating that the federal government's HR department "delay inquiries into criminal history until later in the hiring process."

President Obama spoke to several federal prisoners about that very approach in July, when he was the first sitting president to visit an American prison.

"If the disclosure of a criminal record happens later in a job application process," he told them, "you're more likely to be hired." Obama described what many studies show - that when many employers see the box checked for an applicant's criminal record, they weed them out without ever looking at their qualifications.

"If they have a chance to at least meet you," the president continued, "you're able to talk to them about your life, what you've done, maybe they give you a chance."

About 60-to-75% of former inmates cannot find work within their first year out of jail, according to the Justice Department, a huge impediment to re-entering society.

Research shows the existence of a criminal record can reduce an employer's interest in applicant by about 50%, and that when white and black applicants both have records, employers are far less likely to call back a black applicant than a white one. As a 2009 re-entry study in New York city found, "the criminal record penalty suffered by white applicants (30%) is roughly half the size of the penalty for blacks with a record (60%)."

Obama's move also comes in the wake of a growing movement for criminal justice reform - from broad calls by groups like Blacks Lives Matter to a specific campaign on ban the box that ranged from half the Senate Democratic caucus to civil rights groups to artists like John Legend.

The President is announcing several other measures Monday, including public housing and money for re-entry programs, and he is speaking about prison reform in a speech and an exclusive interview with NBC Nightly News Anchor Lester Holt.

 Ouze wrote:
I don't think that when people go to jail, we should make it nearly impossible for them to re-integrate into society and thus make it much more likely they're going to go back to jail. We've been doing it this way for a long time and it's not working out very well for us.

Also, the measure in question doesn't mean that employers can never find out, just that they can't ask on the application. They can ask later, during an interview (presumably) at which point a former convict has had an attempt to at least make their case.

And, obviously, not everyone in prison is a "former thief", which i feel sad I had to type out

 CptJake wrote:
There is a reason folks don't like hiring convicted thieves to work around money or pilfer-able goods... You guys honestly don't think employers should be able to know who they are hiring? Often hiring/training an employee is an investment, making the wrong hire can cost you. Having a good understanding of the applicant and their background makes sense to me.

 CptJake wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I don't think that when people go to jail, we should make it nearly impossible for them to re-integrate into society and thus make it much more likely they're going to go back to jail. We've been doing it this way for a long time and it's not working out very well for us.

Also, the measure in question doesn't mean that employers can never find out, just that they can't ask on the application. They can ask later, during an interview (presumably) at which point a former convict has had an attempt to at least make their case.

And, obviously, not everyone in prison is a "former thief", which i feel sad I had to type out

No gak. The crime the person was convicted of is, or at least can be, relevant to a hiring action depending on the position being hired for, which is why I used thief in respects to hiring to work around money/pilfer-able goods.

 Ouze wrote:
So we're going to keep doing this thing were we don't read the first 3 sentences of the story and then mischaracterize it by pretending that the employers are never allowed to find out, right?

The OT

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
I don't think that when people go to jail, we should make it nearly impossible for them to re-integrate into society and thus make it much more likely they're going to go back to jail. We've been doing it this way for a long time and it's not working out very well for us.

Also, the measure in question doesn't mean that employers can never find out, just that they can't ask on the application. They can ask later, during an interview (presumably) at which point a former convict has had an attempt to at least make their case.

And, obviously, not everyone in prison is a "former thief", which i feel sad I had to type out

No gak. The crime the person was convicted of is, or at least can be, relevant to a hiring action depending on the position being hired for, which is why I used thief in respects to hiring to work around money/pilfer-able goods.

Except proof of a crime committed in the past is not proof that they're going to commit that crime in the future, or even that they are likely to. Crime is a symptom of poverty, not genetics.

A kid who got caught doing burglary but then got his high school diploma in prison and comes out and wants to get a job shouldn't be stuck blocked out of all legitimate work because of what he did years ago.

“My own personal theory is that Joseph built the pyramids to store grain. Now all the archeologists think that they were made for the pharaohs’ graves. But, you know, it would have to be something awfully big if you stop and think about it. And I don’t think it’d just disappear over the course of time to store that much grain.

[…]

And when you look at the way that the pyramids are made, with many chambers that are hermetically sealed, they’d have to be that way for various reasons. And various of scientists have said, ‘well, you know there were alien beings that came down and they have special knowledge and that’s how-’ you know, it doesn’t require an alien being when God is with you.”

 reds8n wrote:
.....maybe we'll start using that logic with regards to OT bans

http://deadstate.org/ben-carsons-crazy-theory-about-the-pyramids-has-nothing-to-do-with-aliens-but-its-just-as-dumb/

“My own personal theory is that Joseph built the pyramids to store grain. Now all the archeologists think that they were made for the pharaohs’ graves. But, you know, it would have to be something awfully big if you stop and think about it. And I don’t think it’d just disappear over the course of time to store that much grain.

[…]

And when you look at the way that the pyramids are made, with many chambers that are hermetically sealed, they’d have to be that way for various reasons. And various of scientists have said, ‘well, you know there were alien beings that came down and they have special knowledge and that’s how-’ you know, it doesn’t require an alien being when God is with you.”

You sure can pick'em America

Spoiler:

 Ouze wrote:
So we're going to keep doing this thing were we don't read the first 3 sentences of the story and then mischaracterize it by pretending that the employers are never allowed to find out, right?

The OT

 reds8n wrote:
.....maybe we'll start using that logic with regards to OT bans

http://deadstate.org/ben-carsons-crazy-theory-about-the-pyramids-has-nothing-to-do-with-aliens-but-its-just-as-dumb/

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
So we're going to keep doing this thing were we don't read the first 3 sentences of the story and then mischaracterize it by pretending that the employers are never allowed to find out, right?

The OT

You beat me too it so thank you for saying that.

 Frazzled wrote:

 reds8n wrote:

http://deadstate.org/ben-carsons-crazy-theory-about-the-pyramids-has-nothing-to-do-with-aliens-but-its-just-as-dumb/

1. Carson is a ground breaking surgeon that has done more than anyone who ever posted on this board has done or will do in regards to helping people.
2. Not one person has voted for him for any elected position. People forget that.
3. I think he's secretly a failsafe option. In case the aliens attack they will see him and be almost instantly lulled to sleep....snoooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrreee...

I think Carson is a good example of:

1) A smart dumb person.

We all know at least a few of those folks. They are really good when it comes to their field, and just make you shake your head when they talk about anything else.

2) Being good at [x] doesn't make you a good politician.

Physician, surgeon, CEO, community activist, whatever. You can be good in your field, but none of that guarantees that you will be good in politics.

 Frazzled wrote:

1. Carson is a ground breaking surgeon that has done more than anyone who ever posted on this board has done or will do in regards to helping people.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

1. Carson is a ground breaking surgeon that has done more than anyone who ever posted on this board has done or will do in regards to helping people.

You don't know that, and so what if he has? He's still being dumb.