The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition

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**Spinner**

whembly wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Welcome to the vetting that Obama never got.

...because it's not like he had people crawling all over his birth certificate or anything.

**BlaxicanX**

Whembly probably considers the entire birthing incident to just be good ol' honest journalistic integrity.

"The people have a right to know if Obama's the Kenyan-born Muslim anti-Christ or not!"

**BrotherGecko**

So Carson is a compulsive lier and people want him as POTUS? Looks like the anti-establishment candidates are a bunch of real winners yo.

**whembly**

BlaxicanX wrote:

whembly wrote:

Welcome to the vetting that Obama never got.

Hilarious. Carson makes a bald-faced lie and is a victim for being called out on it?

The distinction here was thus:
"with your grades and ROTC performance, you'd get a full ride at West Point"... All I was thinking was that this was an example of loose languange, because if that Westmore visit is indeed true, I can see them discussioning Carson's grades and ROTC membership that Carson *could* get a full ride.

Additionally... I didn't know he was ROTC or that he got good grades. Which is good I guess...

We had a virtual Iron Curtain on Obama's going ups.

*shrug*

gak son, Obama spent his entire campaign fighting off attacks that weren't even based on reality. Call me about "vetting" when people are demanding to see Carson's birth certificate.

Son... it was the Clinton peeps who started that.

Question for you... do you know who Bill Ayers is?

**Tannhauser42**

Well, Keystone just got shut down (until 2017, anyway). I don't know what to think about it myself (never did the research to make my own decision), but many of the responses are the typical pot-calling-the-kettle-black by accusing Obama of supporting special interests. I would argue that if you are currently campaigning for election, and taking money from people to support that campaign, you've got no business throwing around any accusations of "special interests".

**d-usa**

Bill: How would any of us know who he is or how he is relevant to anything considering that the media never once talked about anything having to do with Obama's background?

West Point: there is no such thing as a "full ride scholarship", at least that's my understanding. You apply, you get accepted, you get your degree, then you belong to the Army.

**Ouze**

d-usa wrote:
Bill: How would any of us know who he is or how he is relevant to anything considering that the media never once talked about anything having to do with Obama's background?

Indeed, it was like their was an iron curtain surrounding the past of a man who wrote 2 autobiographies. How could anyone know anything about him?

**whembly**

d-usa wrote:
How would any of us know who he is or how he is relevant to anything considering that the media never once talked about anything having to do with Obama's background?

vetting:
1 - going through a person's background with a microscope, provided that the person is a Republican, especially a conservative, super-especially a black conservative, who might take the presidency from the MSM's favorite Democrat;

1a - See Palin;

1b - See Obama's connection to Frank Marshall Davis; Bill Ayers; Bernadine Dorne; Jeremiah Wright; Father Felger; Kalidi. Common retort is "Those are folks in my neighborhood.

2 - taking the word of Barack Obama at face value and throwing accusations of racism at anyone who says something insanely offensive like 'but, what about..?"

That kind of vetting?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

d-usa wrote:

West Point: there is no such thing as a "full ride scholarship", at least that's my understanding. You apply, you get accepted, you get your degree, then you belong to the Army.

Yeah... everything's paid for... then you do your 4 (or is it 5) years in the service.

**Ouze**

If only there had been a single story about Jeremiah Wright or Bill Ayers! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE

**reds8n**

whembly wrote:

Son... it was the Clinton peeps who started that.

Another lie.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/09/24/media-and-fact-checkers-once-again-debunk-myth/205772

**whembly**

Ouze wrote:
If only there had been a single story about Jeremiah Wright or Bill Ayers! WAKE UP, SHEEPLE

Mock all you want.

Look... remember how some folks here were salivating.. .and I mean SALIVATING over the possibility that Anonymous had a potential Republicans on the KKK memberships? Just look at google's first page:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=anonymous%20kkk

It's *how* these types are report.

When Obama flunkies are confronted with The President's past associations... it's almost verbatim, pesshaw... *waves hands dismissively* they're just members of his neighborhood. Nevermind that Obama's political career was launched from a god damned terrorist's own living room.

**Frazzled**

If only Ayers had been executed like he should have been.

**Ouze**

whembly wrote:
Mock all you want.

Damn right.

When only 29% of republicans believe that Obama is an American citizen, RIGHT NOW,, and you brush it off as "well, the Clinton camp started it" (which is in dispute) it nonetheless belies an intellectual dishonesty that frankly cannot be countered with facts, just laughed at.

When there is a claim that Ben Carson is getting the vetting that Obama never got, and there were in excess of 3,000 news pieces about Jeremiah Wright within a 6 month timeframe, there is simply not a rational counter. This is a horse that does not want to drink water. You want to believe what you want to believe, and the facts can get fethed. In the face of that, I'd be an idiot to do anything other than mocking.

**d-usa**

Who is this Ayers everybody keeps talking about? And was Obama even alive prior to his time in the Senate?

We don't know anything about any of this, why is everyone inventing people?

**whembly**

reds8n wrote:
whembly wrote:

Son... it was the Clinton peeps who started that.

Another lie.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/09/24/media-and-fact-checkers-once-again-debunk-myth/205772

Right... media matters is the gold standard in non-partisan reporting.

It was one of the ugliest primary in memory and it was the Clinton supporters who pushed that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:
whembly wrote:
he Clinton camp started it" (which is in dispute) .

Nice stealth edit...

**Ouze**

I'm not actually 100% sure anymore. I still think it's true but I'm not positive.

**Tannhauser42**

whembly wrote:

It was one of the ugliest primary in memory and it was the Clinton supporters who pushed that.

Thing is, though, the excuse "but she/he started it!" belongs on the elementary school playground.

**Frazzled**

d-usa wrote:
Who is this Ayers everybody keeps talking about? And was Obama even alive prior to his time in the Senate?

We don't know anything about any of this, why is everyone inventing people?

You know...Ayers the terrorist bomber. He's a college professor now (of course). He was one of the founders of the Weathermen, the terrorist group known for a long string of bombings in the US in late 60s and early 70s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions

**reds8n**

It was also incredibly well documented and analysed so it it won't be hard for you to present some actual proof for what you're saying then.

**Ouze**

reds8n wrote:
It was also incredibly well documented and analysed so it it won't be hard for you to present some actual proof for what you're saying then.

Sir, are you saying one Donald J Trump might tell a falsehood?

**whembly**

In Gifted Hands, Carson notes that he only had the $ to apply to one school. IE, he never applied to West Point. pic.twitter.com/XWhRThgRzW
— daveweigel (@daveweigel) November 6, 2015

Ben Carson’s allies defend West Point story: He got an offer, did not apply

Allies of retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson are defending his long-told story of a "scholarship" to West Point by saying that he merely shorthanded the free ride he'd been offered to the military academy. The argument -- which depends on a careful parsing of verbs -- is that he never applied, even after being told he'd be a sure-thing candidate, and that the controversy can be dismissed as a witch hunt.

That reasoning came together Friday morning, after Politico's Kyle Cheney published a story titled "Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship." After confirming that Carson had never applied to West Point, and that a meeting Carson described with Gen. William Westmoreland apparently did not happen when the candidate had claimed, Cheney quoted Carson campaign manager Barry Bennett's new explanation.

"He was introduced to folks from West Point by his ROTC Supervisors,” Bennett said. “They told him they could help him get an appointment based on his grades and performance in ROTC. He considered it but in the end did not seek admission.”

[The Fix: Ben Carson didn’t get a ‘full scholarship’ from West Point. That’s a big problem for his campaign.]

In an interview, Carson's close friend Armstrong Williams argued that Politico had written a false headline off of Bennett's accurate quote.

"In the story itself, the campaign does not say Dr. Carson applied to West Point," Williams said of Politico. "Dr. Carson boasts about his scores in ROTC. Westmoreland encourages him to apply. As Dr. Carson says, they were impressed by his scores, but he never applied. They said to him, we could get you in. This guy got into Yale -- obviously he could have got in. The headline was a fabrication."

Carson, whose steady rise to the top of presidential primary polls has started to draw media scrutiny his way, is depending on a loose interpretation of the word "scholarship." There is no tuition at West Point; there is no equivalent of a "scholarship" as generally understood at most universities. In his memoir "Gifted Hands" and in anecdotes about the offer, Carson never says that he "applied," only that some "scholarship" came his way after a meeting with Westmoreland and "congressional medal winners."

"I was offered a full scholarship to West Point," Carson wrote. "I didn't refuse the scholarship outright, but I let them know that a military career wasn't where I saw myself going. As overjoyed as I felt to be offered such a scholarship, I wasn't really tempted. The scholarship would have obligated me to spend four years in military service after I finished college, precluding my chances to go on to medical school."

That description of the offer came with its own problems -- it is not, for example, impossible for a West Point graduate to complete his service than become a doctor. But Carson's allies insist that the gap between "applying" and being offered a "scholarship" debunks the Politico story. Indeed, in "Gifted Hands," Carson repeatedly described how he had only $10 to submit with a college application, limiting his choices.

"Each college required a ten-dollar non-returnable entrance fee sent with the application," Carson wrote. "I had exactly ten dollars, so I could apply only to one."

In an August 2015 Facebook post, Carson described that situation again, to tell a questioner that he applied only to Yale.

"I was the highest student ROTC member in Detroit and was thrilled to get an offer from West Point," wrote Carson. "But I knew medicine is what I wanted to do. So I applied to only one school. (It was all the money I had). I applied to Yale and thank God they accepted me."

Williams, who had not spoken to Carson since Politico's story went online, insisted that it was "shoddy journalism" and oversold what Carson himself had claimed.

"It gives journalism a bad name," said Williams. "It only fits into Dr. Carson's narrative of a witch hunt."

I still thinks this hurts Carson... as the damage was done. Even though Poltico's narrative just went to gak, this will feed to what people will believe.

Exhibit 9,740,330 guys.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ouze wrote:
I'm not actually 100% sure anymore. I still think it's true but I'm not positive.

Nice stealth edit again...

Remember the PUMAs? That where it started. Seriously, things got [i]ugly [/i]in 2007.

It should've been dropped one Hawaii released it. In fact, it never should've been started.

**d-usa**

Frazzled wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Who is this Ayers everybody keeps talking about? And was Obama even alive prior to his time in the Senate?

We don't know anything about any of this, why is everyone inventing people?

You know...Ayers the terrorist bomber. He's a college professor now (of course). He was one of the founders of the Weathermen, the terrorist group known for a long string of bombings in the US in late 60s and early 70s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions

Never heard of him. Nobody in the media talked about him at any point because they didn't want to hurt Obama. Everybody managed to keep completely quiet about it.

They also never talked about:

- his frequently changing stance on gay marriage
- his pastor
- his flag pin
- his drug use
- his voting record consisting of "present"
- his wife not being a proud American before this
- wearing his true Muslim clothes when visiting "home"
- tax records
- birth certificates
- bitter Americans clinging to guns
- his race
- his citizenship
- attending secret Muslim school as a child
- refusing to say the pledge of allegiance
- his stance on NAFTA
- his school record
- being accepted because of affirmative actions
- his father being his father

All stuff that was never talked about because nobody vetted him.

**dogma**

whembly wrote:

When Obama flunkies are confronted with The President's past associations... it's almost verbatim, pesshaw... *waves hands dismissively* they're just members of his neighborhood.

I know, right, its almost like people will ignore certain associations a candidate they like might have because they don't consider them to be as important as other factors in determining their preference.

Seriously Whembly, I know it might be difficult for you to understand, but people do have priorities and desires which are distinct from your own.

whembly wrote:

Nevermind that Obama's political career was launched from a god damned terrorist's own living room.

Are you suggesting that it was only Obama's attendance at a function (or series of functions) held at Ayers' home that enabled him to become a successful politician? If so, then you massively overestimate the political importance of Bill Ayers.

**Peregrine**

whembly wrote:
Look... remember how some folks here were salivating.. .and I mean SALIVATING over the possibility that Anonymous had a potential Republicans on the KKK memberships? Just look at google's first page:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=anonymous%20kkk

Err, huh? Do you have some private copy of this thread that the rest of us don't get to read? Because in the version of the thread I see there was no "salivating" over the potential list. In fact pretty much every post on the subject included some kind of statement about how the list isn't going to mean much without additional proof, even if there are republican names on it, and probably won't be a major scandal.

As for vetting Carson, it doesn't really take much vetting when he openly and proudly declares his insane theories about things like the Egyptian pyramids (you know, solid piles of stone with little internal space) being built to store grain, because the bible says so.

**d-usa**

Carson: so his meeting with the general was as substantial as Kim Davis meeting with the pope? Go figure.

**dogma**

whembly wrote:

Right... media matters is the gold standard in non-partisan reporting.

It was one of the ugliest primary in memory and it was the Clinton supporters who pushed that.

But it was the political right which picked up the idea and ran with it.

Funny thing, though, the Media Matters article actually agrees with what you just stated. Hillary Clinton did not start the birther scandal, one of her supporters did. Perhaps you should pay more attention to what is written, it will help you cut through your own biases.

**whembly**

dogma wrote:
whembly wrote:

Right... media matters is the gold standard in non-partisan reporting.

It was one of the ugliest primary in memory and it was the Clinton supporters who pushed that.

But it was the political right which picked up the idea and ran with it.

Never said otherwise. I even said it shouldn't have started that firestorm as there were better things to ding Obama. Like his associate to Ayers.

But, many of you dearly wished it was germinated by Clinton's camp.

**Frazzled**

d-usa wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Who is this Ayers everybody keeps talking about? And was Obama even alive prior to his time in the Senate?

We don't know anything about any of this, why is everyone inventing people?

You know...Ayers the terrorist bomber. He's a college professor now (of course). He was one of the founders of the Weathermen, the terrorist group known for a long string of bombings in the US in late 60s and early 70s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Weatherman_actions

Never heard of him. Nobody in the media talked about him at any point because they didn't want to hurt Obama. Everybody managed to keep completely quiet about it.

They also never talked about:

- his frequently changing stance on gay marriage
- his pastor
- his flag pin
- his drug use
- his voting record consisting of "present"
- his wife not being a proud American before this
- wearing his true Muslim clothes when visiting "home"
- tax records
- birth certificates
- bitter Americans clinging to guns
- his race
- his citizenship
- attending secret Muslim school as a child
- refusing to say the pledge of allegiance
- his stance on NAFTA
- his school record
- being accepted because of affirmative actions
- his father being his father

All stuff that was never talked about because nobody vetted him.

Strange, I thought they did, except his school record of course because he never released his transcripts. I'll admit I don't know his NAFTA stance.

As for Carson, I'm not studying up. I know some of his surgeon record and how he vaulted to popularity but he's not high on my list of candidates as I don't view him as qualified. Of course Nader wasn't qualified and I still voted for him.

**d-usa**

Remember folks: whembly doesn't invent many of these accusations and interpretations of sinister actions that he talks about, he is simply an unbiased poster asking "what if it's true..." and makes sure that as many people as possible can ask themselves the same question.

**dogma**

whembly wrote:

Never said otherwise. I even said it shouldn't have started that firestorm as there were better things to ding Obama. Like his associate to Ayers.

And yet you also said that Obama did not receive the vetting that Carson is now getting. You can have that argument, or the above one, but not both.

whembly wrote:

But, many of you dearly wished it was germinated by Clinton's camp.

That's a fiction of your own invention. I doubt many people here particularly care who started the scandal, as it isn't especially relevant given that it did not come from Clinton's campaign; a point you admitted to when arguing with me earlier in this thread.