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2015/11/14 16:33:51
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Federal loans account for more aid than private bank loans so private bank loans can't exert more influence on the market than federal loans currently.
I don't think they exert more influence on the market. I think they exert more influence on Student Debt (and they do). If I were to point out the highest influence on the market right now it would be that the number of students going to college has risen. However defaults on private loans are extremely high due to ludicrous interest interest rates.
Interest rates on students loans can be outright extortion (as high as 10%) and many require students to start paying before they've even graduated. Now what happens here is that the government has started stepping in and is buying these loans up (this started in the early 90s) because of all the defaults and that's totally the government's fault for not realizing that loan shark interest rates being legal is asinine.
All that defaulting debt is a contributor to rising costs.
And again because I'm still harping on iT!
*shakes fist at university of phoenix*
All of those mitigating factors have to be considered by private lenders who are only going to issue student loans if there is a good chance of the borrower paying them back with interest.
Yeah. Because we can totally look at student loans right now and see how much better that's working out. Free market is not code for businesses will only make sensible decisions. Again, what in the past few years would lead anyone to believe this were true?
There are several countries here with heavily government subsidized education (Germany and France). Way less free market and they're still paying less. We really need to drop this concept in our national discourse that free market = lower costs. It's not that simple.
The government doesn't issue loans to make a profit on the interest they issue loans to enable students to attend schools that would others be unaffordable.
Good. Education is a good thing and more people should get it. If we were smart we'd let everyone get it for a penance because being educated never hurt anyone and maybe the state of our political discourse would go up a few rungs of the ladder.
Federal loans exist specifically to offset the rising costs of tuition which is why costs will continue to rise as long as the government continues to issue loans to cover the increase.
Not really? Federal Aid has been growing since the 40's and 50's (in fact we offer proportionally less government aid now than we did way back then). The current issue we're having with rising tuition costs and student debt didn't start until the late 80's when changes were made to regulations concerning Private Loans! Of course, that change was motivated by increasing enrollment and the inability of other aid sources to keep up with all the people going to college coupled with the market not being as prone to rapid expansion as it was during the golden years.
This is of course ignoring the other issue that over a third of student debt is actually owned by graduate students, not undergrads, especially those in pre-professional programs like law and medicine and their default rate is among the highest of all students (despite their degrees having some of the highest perceived value). These same students also receive less federal aid (as seen in my earlier posted chart) and a lot more private loans (with insane interest). And these programs have been rising in cost faster than others, yet again, involve way less federal aid money. So what is driving up the costs? Much higher enrollment, defaults on student debt, and the perception that these programs are increasing in value.
Realistically many graduate programs are increasing in value. There are more and more people with college educations, and a lot of fiends have realized they can demand more (masters and doctorates) for less than they could in the past. That growth honestly owes a great deal to the success of Federal Aid programs like the GI bill in the 40's and 50's instilling an economic mind set that college = success (i.e. a major part of the rising costs are indeed a natural economic outcome of so many people are going to college now).
Without pressure and incentives to lower costs such as enabling enough students to attend in order to keep the school functioning costs won't decrease.
Except they didn't have to do that. People will pursue education no matter what it costs, because not having one is basically leaving yourself with few if any options. So long as that is true, there is no incentive to lower costs.
And another issue; The government has a vested interest in making sure people can go to college because the economy needs college graduates to function (preferably college graduates without debt would be ideal, but the world isn't perfect). College education promotes and maintains economic growth. Ensuring an educated population and work force actually helps the 'free market' by remove risks associated with labor. If anything the government should be giving out more money to encourage growth in sectors with projected labor shortages... Oh. Like welders
Just because education is important doesn't mean credit will magically appear and be offered to anyone who wants to go to college. As long as schools can get paid at whatever rates they charge they will continue to charge more.
Except that removing federal financial aid will not stop that cycle. It never drove down the costs of Healthcare, and it's never driven down the costs of Education because these are things people will pursue regardless of price.
To be clear, I don't really care that prices are going up per se (prices going up is to a degree inevitable). Like I said, education is expensive but its worth it and I think that an educated population is worth the costs required to make it happen. IMO, we should be sending people to school, and not just for the empty soulless notion that it'll help them make money later on.
Spoiler'd for length.... IMO, part of the problem is that Joe Snuffy wannabe college student can get accepted into a college, then go down to his/her local Wells Fargo and say, "I need some college money" and generally speaking the bank will give it. The reason it's so "easy" to get this loan is because, 20 years down the road when Joe Snuffy has been working for 10-15 years has a market collapse in which he is generally forced to file bankruptcy, that student loan stays on the books no matter what.
That's a problem. It may be a private loan, but the federal backing on it, and the rules associated with it means that the banks have very little down side, or very little reason to turn down these loans.
Again, I think part of the problem that we're seeing cause an increase in tuition and costs, are the exploding numbers of administrative staff. UW has a "dean of first generation college students", as well as admin staff who serve as tutors for those first gen. college students. They have mirroring admin for minorities, mirroring staff for gender based, etc. And then on top of all that, they have their deans of "regular" college students and regular tutors which they've had since the school's inception. And it is, quite frankly ridiculous to have all of these redundant staff members.
2015/11/14 17:49:10
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Sure, I don't mind these debates. It's just that, far too often we're held hostage to the idea that we MUST find that silver bullet to solve these issues. Sometimes, you just have to act.
No, you really don't. That's the sort of thinking that has made Trump a popular choice for the Republican candidacy. He positioned himself as a "doer" and people, generally people ignorant of the relevant situation, often just want to see something being done regardless of the efficacy of the action.
I think something has to be done about ISIL, but I'm not convinced that direct US action is the best way to go about it. In fact, I'm pretty certain its about the worst thing the US could do. Rather the US military should be used in an advisory and support role with respect to its counterparts in Iraq, Turkey, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. This is very much a situation where a light touch is likely to generate the best results, which still won't be particularly good.
As to stopping domestic terrorism: the problem is much more complicated. There is no military solution to that problem, even completely annihilating ISIL will not put a stop to the phenomenon*. Prevention, in this instance, is more a matter of judicious intelligence gathering coupled with effective police work, and an understanding that there is no way to be 100% successful in preventing terrorist attacks.
*Indeed, it may well worsen it.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/11/14 18:46:35
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
And you just told us that doing something is always a good idea.
Or are you how saying that doing something can be bad?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: and can you please stop with that bs "your savior" bs you pull out of your bag everytime someone fundamentally disagrees with whatever it is you are saying. It's just making you sound like an ass and I'm really running out of any desire to engage with you because of it. I don't mind talking to people I disagree with, but it's really off-putting to constantly hear "you disagree with me? Go worship Obama some more then!"
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/14 18:55:03
2015/11/14 18:56:00
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: and can you please stop with that bs "your savior" bs you pull out of your bag everytime someone fundamentally disagrees with whatever it is you are saying. It's just making you sound like an ass and I'm really running out of any desire to engage with you because of it.
Sure... when ya'll can drop this "Obama is history's greatest monster" claptrap.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/14 19:55:06
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
IMO, part of the problem is that Joe Snuffy wannabe college student can get accepted into a college, then go down to his/her local Wells Fargo and say, "I need some college money" and generally speaking the bank will give it. The reason it's so "easy" to get this loan is because, 20 years down the road when Joe Snuffy has been working for 10-15 years has a market collapse in which he is generally forced to file bankruptcy, that student loan stays on the books no matter what.
Well part of the issue is that until recently, Student Loans were a very good investment for banks. They could put up high interest rates, and generally have very good odds of getting that money back. It wasn't until the recession that Student Loan default rates started to become a problem. There've also been changes in employment demographics (outlook not good for Law students for example), that banks and students haven't really caught up to. Statistically they're still not a bad investment.
Again, I think part of the problem that we're seeing cause an increase in tuition and costs, are the exploding numbers of administrative staff. UW has a "dean of first generation college students", as well as admin staff who serve as tutors for those first gen. college students. They have mirroring admin for minorities, mirroring staff for gender based, etc. And then on top of all that, they have their deans of "regular" college students and regular tutors which they've had since the school's inception. And it is, quite frankly ridiculous to have all of these redundant staff members.
Well part of the issue is that a lot of Universities and Colleges, have effectively been growing non-stop for over 60 years. My school was very small back in the late 40's. A dozen staff, and just 100 students. However by the 1960's, the school had over one hundred staff and thousands of students. That growth never really stopped. My school has consistently added several hundred new students a year, staff to manage them, faculty to teach them, and facilities to accommodate their needs. My school isn't a big one, but this trend is country wide and more serious on larger campuses. That starts adding up to serious expenditures, especially since education isn't a business where lots of means of boosting supply/cutting costs of production don't work.
If you're IBM, and you see a serious spike in demand for you X4000 Computer Chip, and you can't keep up with with, there's a lot you can do. You can outsource production to another manufacturer. You can improve the means of production so you can make the product faster. You can expand your facilities to improve output.
Colleges don't have those options. A 4 year degree is a 4 year degree. There's no way to really speed that up. Once a professor starts reaching 30+ students per class, you're basically crippling that professors ability to teach (they can only handle so many even with help from TAs). You can't really outsource 'production' of students somewhere else. Further people need food, water, power, and somewhere to sleep and that starts adding up to a lot when we expect schools to provide room and board. My school has built new dorms at a rate of 1 every 8 or so years to deal with expansion and it just hit the wall that some of its dorms are almost 100 years old and don't have air conditioning (they're tearing those down and replacing them now). It all results in costs growing with little if any means to bring them down. If there were a breather or break in the growth for schools to work on efficiency and cost cutting, we might see some of that but with a constant rate of growth there's no real time for any of that to happen.
Our higher education system has had to cope with more and more people going to school and costs of administrating, teaching, and providing for them. Too a degree I totally agree there seem to be lots of redundant admin positions, but there's a gak ton of students and more keep coming. my school has close to 10k students now, and only 500 staff (including professors) to deal with them all. There's a fair amount of waste too. My school spend a couple hundred thousand building a nice student union building with conference rooms and stuff, that no one used. In spite of that, the school spent another couple hundred k expanding the building to add more rooms for no one to use... Meanwhile our library is decrepit and small for how many students are on campus. Oh and did I mention that a lot of the dorms don't have air conditioning? I mean it's not the deep south but there's still a good 6 weeks out of the school year where it's like 80 degrees outside!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/14 19:55:44
What's the American reaction to these terrorist attacks? I'm pretty sure that there was a recent Bi-partisan Congressional report that said there could be a number of people returning to the USA from Syria...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/11/14 22:29:43
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
You guys not worried about fighters returning? You'll know better than me about the availibility of guns in the USA...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/15 14:13:49
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/11/15 14:20:08
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Right now, our feckless foreign policy championed by your savior and HRC ain't really doing gak.
My savior? What? Simply because I point out the many problems in arguments you make regarding Hillary Clinton and Obama does not mean that I'm particularly fond of either of them.
Regardless, I'm also perfectly fine with doing nothing at all. In fact, that would be second on my list of preferred foreign policy choices, at least given the present state of affairs. This is especially true given that in order for the US to advise and support a foreign military, the government which oversees that military must be willing to accept such aid. In Jordan this shouldn't be much of an issue, as Jordan has been on good terms with the US for many, many years. But in the other 3 cases (Turkey*, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia) political issues could very easily get in the way of further cooperation.
*Turkey doesn't really need the help anyway, they've already got plenty of experience dealing with militants and terrorism.
To simplify:
If possible, support and advise foreign militaries. If not possible, do nothing. Directly engage ISIL only after other Western nations have made a concerted effort to do the same.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: You guys not worried about fighters returning? You'll know better than me about the availibility of guns in the USA.
Opinions are divided, and range from "Most serious threat EVAR!!!" to "No threat at all.". The most reasonable position, in my opinion, is that they do pose a threat, but that it is often overblown for reasons of political positioning and general paranoia.
Either way, it isn't really a hot topic in the general public, and so discussion tends to be limited to the academy and foreign policy/security professionals.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/11/15 15:14:23
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2015/11/15 16:44:57
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
To simplify:
If possible, support and advise foreign militaries. If not possible, do nothing. Directly engage ISIL only after other Western nations have made a concerted effort to do the same.
Honestly... that may be the only practical thing we can do at the moment.
Did anyone watch the debate last night? With 3 of them onstage... it still shows that they're the true clown show.
Sanders claiming climate change is the greatest security threat...
O'Malley not making sense...
Clinton using 9/11 to justify her Wall Street actions in NY was bizzare...
Just your standard debate where truths were stretched, with some whoppers.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/15 17:53:55
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Didn't watch it becaue of Betrayal at Calth (lol) but that wouldn't surprise me. I don't find either party or their debates to be anything more than clown shows.
2015/11/15 19:03:14
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Sanders claiming climate change is the greatest security threat...
Which is a valid point, if you think about it for a moment. What do you think is going to happen when unstable regions (including places where people already hate the US) start suffering things like coastal flooding driving people out of their homes or shifting rain patterns turning important agricultural areas into deserts?
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
2015/11/15 19:22:24
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Sanders claiming climate change is the greatest security threat...
Which is a valid point, if you think about it for a moment. What do you think is going to happen when unstable regions (including places where people already hate the US) start suffering things like coastal flooding driving people out of their homes or shifting rain patterns turning important agricultural areas into deserts?
Would turn Mad Max from a really cool Sci-fi story, to something more akin to a documentary
And I agree. What Sanders is saying isn't that Mother Earth is gonna start suicide bombing stadiums full of people to get her message across, but rather that as situations deteriorate, security becomes extremely problematic. It's really just a bit of logical thinking, rather than stating the obvious
2017/07/14 19:36:13
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Big ideas to complex issues don't get votes. If Sander's wants Americans to take him seriously he should of said he will build a wall around climate change and make the Earth pay for it. Or maybe run on a platform of being against the climatization of America and stop the immigration of illegal climates.
Hell, maybe he could promise to declare war on radical militant climates. Climate is not an environment of peace.
.....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/15 20:00:36
2015/11/15 21:19:52
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: Did anyone watch the debate last night? With 3 of them onstage... it still shows that they're the true clown show.
Sure, sure.
At any point, did one of them suggest they once tried to stab someone, that they'd bang their daughter, or that they'd be willing to situationally murder a baby? No? Nothing about grain silos yet?
Honest question - do you even realize how unbelieveable these guys sound to the rest of America? And, you know, not in an awesome way, like "these ribs are unbelieveable".
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/11/15 21:27:39
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/11/15 23:34:34
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Rib Ticklers....small mom and pop business attach to a gas station...if that ain't Southern as all Hell...I drop serious $$ once every two weeks for two full racks
I doubt GITMO is not closing down anytime soon
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2015/11/16 12:58:02
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Actually we may have a nice constitutional crisis about Gitmo starting this week.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/11/16 13:00:20
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Its not the constitutional crisis you're thinking of.
There's a law against shutting it down.
If Obama shuts it down he has violated the law.
Guess whats an impeachable offense...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/11/16 13:48:39
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Frazzled wrote: Its not the constitutional crisis you're thinking of.
More's the pity then.
There's a law against shutting it down.
If Obama shuts it down he has violated the law.
Guess whats an impeachable offense...
Too bad we can't impeach Congress and the Senate.
And too bad they're more interested in finding ways of screwing over the executive branch than doing their fething job.
Isn't a major part of their job to be the check and balance to the Executive branch? If they feel it is stepping out of line they SHOULD be trying to screw it over.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/11/16 14:02:23
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Frazzled wrote: Its not the constitutional crisis you're thinking of.
More's the pity then.
There's a law against shutting it down.
If Obama shuts it down he has violated the law.
Guess whats an impeachable offense...
Too bad we can't impeach Congress and the Senate.
And too bad they're more interested in finding ways of screwing over the executive branch than doing their fething job.
Isn't a major part of their job to be the check and balance to the Executive branch? If they feel it is stepping out of line they SHOULD be trying to screw it over.
There is a difference between "being the check and balance to the Executive branch" and "being obstructionists wrapping themselves in patriotism".
The former implies that they will actively work with the Executive branch, to ensure that the Executive branch does not overreach its authority. And no, Executive Orders are not necessarily an overreach.
The latter is what we got. We've seen how that worked.
2015/11/16 14:08:33
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
This is both accurate, that that he can't shutter the facility, but inaccurate in what we commonly mean when we say "shutting down Gitmo" - where we commonly ending the indefinite holding of detainees. The law precludes funding any transfers of prisoners to the US. He's free to transfer them to other countries (for example)
The fact that the indefinite detentions have continued are imo the biggest failing of this administration, and an utter betrayal of our ideals.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/16 14:14:53
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/11/16 14:13:36
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Frazzled wrote: Its not the constitutional crisis you're thinking of.
More's the pity then.
There's a law against shutting it down.
If Obama shuts it down he has violated the law.
Guess whats an impeachable offense...
Too bad we can't impeach Congress and the Senate.
And too bad they're more interested in finding ways of screwing over the executive branch than doing their fething job.
Isn't a major part of their job to be the check and balance to the Executive branch? If they feel it is stepping out of line they SHOULD be trying to screw it over.
Exactly. As envisioned, the Executive was the MINOR branch and was so until FDR.
I think I can get 2/3 of the Senate to agree with...BACON!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/16 14:14:08
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
