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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Oh...
Emails show DOD analysts told to 'cut it out' on ISIS warnings; IG probe expands

Analysts at U.S. Central Command were pressured to ease off negative assessments about the Islamic State threat and were even told in an email to “cut it out,” Fox News has learned – as an investigation expands into whether intelligence reports were altered to present a more positive picture.

Fox News is told by a source close to the CENTCOM analysts that the pressure on them included at least two emails saying they needed to “cut it out” and “toe the line.”

Separately, a former Pentagon official told Fox News there apparently was an attempt to destroy the communications. The Pentagon official said the email warnings were "not well received" by the analysts.

Those emails, among others, are now in the possession of the Pentagon inspector general. The IG’s probe is expanding into whether intelligence assessments were changed to give a more positive picture of the anti-ISIS campaign.

The former Pentagon official said there were “multiple assessments” from military intelligence and the CIA regarding the “rapid rise” of ISIS in Iraq and North Africa in the year leading up to the group’s territory grab in 2014.

Similar intelligence was included in the President’s Daily Brief, or PDB – the intelligence community’s most authoritative product -- during the same time period. Yet the official, who was part of the White House discussions, said the administration kept "kicking the can down the road." The official said there was no discussion of the military involvement needed to make a difference.

The IG probe started earlier this year amid complaints that information was changed to make ISIS look more degraded than it really was.

Among the complaints is that after the U.S. air campaign started in August 2014, the metrics to measure progress changed. They were modified to use measures such as the number of sorties and body counts -- a metric not used since the Vietnam War -- to paint a more positive picture.

Critics say this "activity-based approach" to tracking the effectiveness of strikes does not paint a comprehensive picture of whether ISIS is being degraded and contained.

The New York Times first reported on Sunday that the IG investigation was expanding and adding more investigators, and that the office had taken possession of a trove of documents and emails as part of that probe.

Asked about the report, House intelligence committee Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., said Sunday that his committee and others are involved in the investigation.

“We heard from a lot of whistle-blowers and other informants who have given us information. And not just … related strictly to the latest allegations,” Nunes said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

Citing the renewed focus on ISIS after the Paris terror attacks, he added: “So the president, to have a successful strategy, is going to admit that they've got it wrong and they need to relook at a larger strategy that deals with north Africa, the Middle East, all the way over to Afghanistan, Pakistan, and then work closely with our NATO allies with what appears to be a command and control structure that ISIS has created successfully in Europe.”

President Obama, speaking at a press conference in Malaysia over the weekend, said he expects to “get to the bottom” of whether ISIS intelligence reports were altered – and has told his top military officials as much.

“One of the things I insisted on the day I walked into the Oval Office was that I don’t want intelligence shaded by politics. I don’t want it shaded by the desire to tell a feel-good story,” Obama said Sunday. “I believe that the Department of Defense and all those who head up our intelligence agencies understand that, and that I have made it repeatedly clear to all my top national security advisers that I never want them to hold back, even if the intelligence or their opinions about the intelligence, their analysis or interpretations of the data contradict current policy.”

At the same time, he said, “As a consumer of this intelligence, it’s not as if I’ve been receiving wonderfully rosy, glowing portraits of what’s been happening in Iraq and Syria over the last year and a half. … [I]t feels to me like, at my level at least, we’ve had a pretty clear-eyed, sober assessment.”

The president’s call for a thorough investigation was greeted with cynicism by those involved in the 2014 intelligence assessments, since the administration did not act on the earlier raw intelligence that painted a dire picture of developments, especially in Iraq.


That's a pretty damning leak. This is the kind of stuff the WhiteHouse shouldn't want to get into...

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




North Carolina

 LordofHats wrote:
Based in nothing and exactly what ISIS wants us to do. ISIS propaganda states openly their intent to radicalize Western Nationals, and we've already seen plenty of evidence on how they can do that. What. While we're on this spree of shutting the door on people because "they could be dangerous some day maybe" how bout we just throw out all the people already here. That'll show ISIS.


http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees
Refugees
Under United States law, a refugee is someone who:

•Is located outside of the United States
•Is of special humanitarian concern to the United States
•Demonstrates that they were persecuted or fear persecution due to race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group
Is not firmly resettled in another country
•Is admissible to the United States
A refugee does not include anyone who ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of any person on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

For the legal definition of refugee, see section 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).


Do we have a database at our disposal that allows us to determine with reasonable accuracy that Syrians seeking refugee status don't have current or previous ties to ISIS? A connection to ISIS would make them ineligible for refugee status and the inability to determine if they are/were associated with ISIS can't be taken as proof that they weren't. Our legal process for applying for refugee status has existed prior to the emergence of ISIS and the flight of people from Syria so applying it to those people is just equal application of the law. The same rules apply to anyone from anywhere seeking refugee status, it's not our fault its difficult to determine if a given Syrian applicant has any association with ISIS.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Prestor Jon wrote:

The same rules apply to anyone from anywhere seeking refugee status...


As they should, but there seems to be a push to create special rules for people from a special place.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






It is our fault for allowing people to believe the lunacy that refugees are dangerous and that we need to be guarded against them. The French, who actually suffered a recent attack are still allowing refugees in because feth ISIS, they don't get to set an agenda and scare people off. As far as I know only one of the attackers might...might...have been a refugee. It is fear mongering for votes from all sides. We should be better than that.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 dogma wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:

The same rules apply to anyone from anywhere seeking refugee status...


As they should, but there seems to be a push to create special rules for people from a special place.


Indeed. Isn't innocent until proven guilty still a thing, too?

So if the US cannot prove that syrian refugees are connected to ISIS then it should let them in. The legal requirement is not on the refugees to prove their innocence.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/23 22:29:13


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 dogma wrote:
Prestor Jon wrote:

The same rules apply to anyone from anywhere seeking refugee status...


As they should, but there seems to be a push to create special rules for people from a special place.


Indeed. Isn't innocent until proven guilty still a thing, too?

So if the US cannot prove that syrian refugees are connected to ISIS then it should let them in.


Nope, the US gave that up for Lent a few years ago, it was replaced with "use a drone strike on them"

 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Isn't innocent until proven guilty still a thing, too?


Yep, but that doesn't apply to popular opinion.

Prestor Jon wrote:
The same rules apply to anyone from anywhere seeking refugee status, it's not our fault its difficult to determine if a given Syrian applicant has any association with ISIS.


Then why did the GOP make a show of it? If the rules are uniform and sufficient, I can only conclude that it wanted to strike at Obama and Hillary.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/23 22:32:56


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

 Ahtman wrote:
It is our fault for allowing people to believe the lunacy that refugees are dangerous and that we need to be guarded against them.

Nobody rational believes that. It's the idea of infiltrators posing as refugees that is the center of concern. Even if an ISIS supporter doesn't come in and begin tossing bombs around, he may well be helping to radicalize muslims in order to instigate domestic attacks or sending more recruits to Iraq to fight. That's just as bad.


 
   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

 Ahtman wrote:
It is fear mongering for votes from all sides. We should be better than that.


Politics 101: Every tragedy is really a political opportunity in disguise.

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Breotan wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
It is our fault for allowing people to believe the lunacy that refugees are dangerous and that we need to be guarded against them.

Nobody rational believes that. It's the idea of infiltrators posing as refugees that is the center of concern. Even if an ISIS supporter doesn't come in and begin tossing bombs around, he may well be helping to radicalize muslims in order to instigate domestic attacks or sending more recruits to Iraq to fight. That's just as bad.



Exactly. I don't think anyone hates the genuine refugees. Its the impostors using them as a convenient cover to enter the US that are the problem.

We should balance helping the refugees with looking to root anyone attempting to infiltrate the US and radicalize people living here or carry out attacks directly.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






 Breotan wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
It is our fault for allowing people to believe the lunacy that refugees are dangerous and that we need to be guarded against them.

Nobody rational believes that. It's the idea of infiltrators posing as refugees that is the center of concern. Even if an ISIS supporter doesn't come in and begin tossing bombs around, he may well be helping to radicalize muslims in order to instigate domestic attacks or sending more recruits to Iraq to fight. That's just as bad.



Fear the Hun.

Help me, Rhonda. HA! 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




 Grey Templar wrote:
 Breotan wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
It is our fault for allowing people to believe the lunacy that refugees are dangerous and that we need to be guarded against them.

Nobody rational believes that. It's the idea of infiltrators posing as refugees that is the center of concern. Even if an ISIS supporter doesn't come in and begin tossing bombs around, he may well be helping to radicalize muslims in order to instigate domestic attacks or sending more recruits to Iraq to fight. That's just as bad.



Exactly. I don't think anyone hates the genuine refugees. Its the impostors using them as a convenient cover to enter the US that are the problem.

We should balance helping the refugees with looking to root anyone attempting to infiltrate the US and radicalize people living here or carry out attacks directly.


there are so many easier ways to get into the country, impersonating a refugee just calls attention to yourself. so the 9/11 pilots, refugees? nope

and people in the US are already being radicalized before the refugees are even here, so clearly impersonating a refugee isn't required.

 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Not really. A refugee is actually a good cover. It wraps all your reasons to enter in a nice little package.

Unless you are suggesting they try to get across the border with Mexico, which itself presents a bunch of other problems. Like "why is this Arab guy here?". Plus its not actually easy to cross the border. People die doing it all the time.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor





St. Louis

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really. A refugee is actually a good cover. It wraps all your reasons to enter in a nice little package.

Unless you are suggesting they try to get across the border with Mexico, which itself presents a bunch of other problems. Like "why is this Arab guy here?". Plus its not actually easy to cross the border. People die doing it all the time.

The two year wait and extensive screening by both the UN and US intelligence agencies would make it a rather poor choice. That, and refugees don't get to pick their host country. Tourist visas are a lot easier to get, with virtually no screening. Same goes for business visas.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/24 01:05:47


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really. A refugee is actually a good cover. It wraps all your reasons to enter in a nice little package.


It's a wonder they haven't done it yet and have instead chosen to target nationals. Right? Riiiight?

Plus its not actually easy to cross the border. People die doing it all the time.


Oh, so we can drop this border wall nonsense then? Sweet.

 Laughing Man wrote:
The two year wait and extensive screening by both the UN and US intelligence agencies would make it a rather poor choice. That, and refugees don't get to pick their host country. Tourist visas are a lot easier to get, with virtually no screening. Same goes for business visas.


Seriously this^ We're less strict with incoming immigrants and students and tourists than we are with refugees before all this started. And everyone's cowering in the corner of the mean refugees who must be an evil plot, despite no evidence to suggest they're anymore of a risk than any other foreign national. There's a corner of US politics that gets ridiculed for making something out of nothing and this is another example of why that corner of politics is a laughing stock.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/24 01:12:13


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




North Carolina

 dogma wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Isn't innocent until proven guilty still a thing, too?


Yep, but that doesn't apply to popular opinion.

Prestor Jon wrote:
The same rules apply to anyone from anywhere seeking refugee status, it's not our fault its difficult to determine if a given Syrian applicant has any association with ISIS.


Then why did the GOP make a show of it? If the rules are uniform and sufficient, I can only conclude that it wanted to strike at Obama and Hillary.


Because high ranking federal officials in the FBI and DHS testify to Congress that we don't have enough data at our disposal to ascertain if any of the Syrians seeking refugee status are ISIS members or supporters. Giving credence to legitimate concerns regarding the identity of the Syrian refugees.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 Grey Templar wrote:
Its the impostors using them as a convenient cover to enter the US that are the problem.
Only you would try to make a claim that being a refugee is a convenient way to get into a country.

 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Grey Templar wrote:

Exactly. I don't think anyone hates the genuine refugees. Its the impostors using them as a convenient cover to enter the US that are the problem.

We should balance helping the refugees with looking to root anyone attempting to infiltrate the US and radicalize people living here or carry out attacks directly.



Well, I think we all know there's that lunatic fringe in the US... You know the type: they hate Mexicans cuz they are ALL illegal rapist killers and they eat babies! And in a wider context, are pretty damn xenophobic regardless of reality/current events.


Ironically (or not), you can find the bulk of those clicking the 'Yes' option on polls asking if they'd vote for Trump
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Prestor Jon wrote:
 LordofHats wrote:
Based in nothing and exactly what ISIS wants us to do. ISIS propaganda states openly their intent to radicalize Western Nationals, and we've already seen plenty of evidence on how they can do that. What. While we're on this spree of shutting the door on people because "they could be dangerous some day maybe" how bout we just throw out all the people already here. That'll show ISIS.


http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees
Refugees
Under United States law, a refugee is someone who:

•Is located outside of the United States
•Is of special humanitarian concern to the United States
•Demonstrates that they were persecuted or fear persecution due to race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group
Is not firmly resettled in another country
•Is admissible to the United States
A refugee does not include anyone who ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of any person on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

For the legal definition of refugee, see section 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).


Do we have a database at our disposal that allows us to determine with reasonable accuracy that Syrians seeking refugee status don't have current or previous ties to ISIS? A connection to ISIS would make them ineligible for refugee status and the inability to determine if they are/were associated with ISIS can't be taken as proof that they weren't. Our legal process for applying for refugee status has existed prior to the emergence of ISIS and the flight of people from Syria so applying it to those people is just equal application of the law. The same rules apply to anyone from anywhere seeking refugee status, it's not our fault its difficult to determine if a given Syrian applicant has any association with ISIS.


So process them in Europe and let them wait till we reopen Ellis Island. Remember it takes one Jihadist to ruin a bunch of people days. A bunch of Jihadist in a concerted attack will outrage a Nation who then will seek revenge on the General Muslim population. Its a two edge sword here. Damn if you Damn if you don't. As to accuracy of Syrian refugee's....it has to be taken at face value. Syria is not/cannot confirm ISIS association. One has better luck confirming who the individual is by Facebook. Run a biometric......never mind...invasion of privacy

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor





St. Louis

 Jihadin wrote:
So process them in Europe and let them wait till we reopen Ellis Island.

That's exactly what we do. Refugees aren't admitted to the US until they've already been vetted over and over again by a wide variety of agencies. Even once they've been vetted, with only 10,000 refugees being admitted to the States and 4 million refugees, a refugee only has a 0.25% chance to be sent here. On top of that, 67% of those we accept are women and children. The chance a terrorist could make it through the vetting and THEN get sent to the United States is infinitesimally small. It's a ridiculous choice to try to get into the US that way when visitor visas are incredibly easy to get with little more than an interview at a consulate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/24 03:36:40


 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Not to mention the entire argument is circular.

ISIS is in Syria and Isis is so bad everyone else in Syria is either fighting them or trying to run away. Oh, you're from Syria? Well sorry, ISIS is there and ISIS is so bad everyone else in Syria is either fighting them or trying to run away, so we're going to send you back. We don't want any of those ISIS types over here.

Syrian Refugee;



Once again, last time I checked (to admit I last checked like, a few hours ago) we weren't big in this country on punishing people for things we can't prove they did, let alone things they might maybe do later.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/24 03:44:56


   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






 LordofHats wrote:
Not to mention the entire argument is circular.

ISIS is in Syria and Isis is so bad everyone else in Syria is either fighting them or trying to run away. Oh, you're from Syria? Well sorry, ISIS is there and ISIS is so bad everyone else in Syria is either fighting them or trying to run away, so we're going to send you back. We don't want any of those ISIS types over here.

Syrian Refugee;



Once again, last time I checked (to admit I last checked like, a few hours ago) we weren't big in this country on punishing people for things we can't prove they did, let alone things they might maybe do later.


So out of place in Dakkadakka......

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




 LordofHats wrote:
Not to mention the entire argument is circular.

ISIS is in Syria and Isis is so bad everyone else in Syria is either fighting them or trying to run away. Oh, you're from Syria? Well sorry, ISIS is there and ISIS is so bad everyone else in Syria is either fighting them or trying to run away, so we're going to send you back. We don't want any of those ISIS types over here.

Syrian Refugee;



Once again, last time I checked (to admit I last checked like, a few hours ago) we weren't big in this country on punishing people for things we can't prove they did, let alone things they might maybe do later.


well it does seem to be in americas nature to turn away those who need help the most. We learned nothing from the jews trying to escape Germany.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27373131
The captain then steered the St Louis towards the Florida coast, but the US authorities also refused it the right to dock, despite direct appeals to President Franklin Roosevelt. Granston thinks he too was worried about the potential flood of migrants.


which directly resulted in:
Two-hundred-and-fifty-four other passengers from the St Louis were not so fortunate and were killed as the Nazis swept across Western Europe.


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Are we going to talk about Donald Trump saying it was OK a protester got roughed up at his rally, or have we pretty much lost interest in Donald Trump?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cause if so, awesome.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/24 04:00:45


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 Ouze wrote:
Are we going to talk about Donald Trump saying it was OK a protester got roughed up at his rally, or have we pretty much lost interest in Donald Trump?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cause if so, awesome.


Why argue about the second coming of Hitler when there's Terrorists to talk about

   
Made in ca
Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta




 Ouze wrote:
Are we going to talk about Donald Trump saying it was OK a protester got roughed up at his rally, or have we pretty much lost interest in Donald Trump?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cause if so, awesome.


I think most rational people have lost interest in him, but he still seems to be the republican front runner.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




 Ouze wrote:
Are we going to talk about Donald Trump saying it was OK a protester got roughed up at his rally, or have we pretty much lost interest in Donald Trump?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cause if so, awesome.



What scares me is the fact there was any interest in him in the first place. My worst nightmare is the thought I'd have to choose between him or Clinton.
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

Prestor Jon wrote:

Because high ranking federal officials in the FBI and DHS testify to Congress that we don't have enough data at our disposal to ascertain if any of the Syrians seeking refugee status are ISIS members or supporters. Giving credence to legitimate concerns regarding the identity of the Syrian refugees.


Why was there a need to testify before Congress in the first place? Does the GOP consider the process of being admitted to the US as a refugee generally problematic?

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor





St. Louis

 Ouze wrote:
Are we going to talk about Donald Trump saying it was OK a protester got roughed up at his rally, or have we pretty much lost interest in Donald Trump?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cause if so, awesome.

Hopefully. He's moved firmly into "making gak up" territory now.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Laughing Man wrote:

Hopefully. He's moved firmly into "making gak up" territory now.



And sadly, he's drug pretty much every other Republican candidate with him into that territory.
   
 
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