The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition

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**Alpharius**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Wasnt tht book after his rise to power though?
Its been awhile sense I read up on WWII history and The history channel only shows pawnstars, so im out of the loop on WWII history.

Well, if that was your main 'source' you might have been 'out of the loop' for longer than you thought!

**agnosto**

LordofHats wrote:
agnosto wrote:

While the historic accuracy of the blankets is questioned by some historians and pundits, some of whom I would argue have ulterior motives to whitewash history, surviving communication from military commanders mentioned "inoculating" the native population through the use of pox-ridden blankets from Ft. Pitt during the French and Indian War . Also, the Trent Diary discusses the use of smallpox blankets to thin the native populations.

The man who suggested it was prompty brow beaten by his commanding officer for suggesting something obscene and later removed from his command just for suggesting the idea

I was speaking of the events during the French and Indian War, were you speaking to another period?

On June 24, 1763, William Trent, a local trader, recorded in his journal that two Indian chiefs had visited the fort, urging the British to abandon the fight, but the British refused. Instead, when the Indians were ready to leave, Trent wrote: "Out of our regard for them, we gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect."

It is not known who conceived the plan, but there's no doubt it met with the approval of the British military in America and may have been common practice. Sir Jeffery Amherst, commander of British forces in North America, wrote July 7, 1763, probably unaware of the events at Fort Pitt: "Could it not be contrived to Send the Small Pox among those Disaffected Tribes of Indians? We must, on this occasion, Use Every Stratagem in our power to Reduce them." He ordered the extirpation of the Indians and said no prisoners should be taken. About a week later, he wrote to Bouquet: "You will Do well to try to Innoculate the Indians by means of Blanketts as well as to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race."

http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/spring04/warfare.cfm

Apologies for being off-topic.

**Ouze**

whembly wrote:
Hermain Cain was leading the poll at this point in '12.

Polls are useful now (ie, anyone polling <5% ought to think about dropping out)... but, I think it's a mistake to put too much weight on these polls at the moment.

Heh heh heh.

**BrotherGecko**

Close that internet up guys!

http://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/donald-trump-calls-closing-internet-n476156

**djones520**

There is no way that is real... but I've never known NBC to (purposefully) do satire.

**MrDwhitey**

Loads of places are reporting it, though you can't discount them all finding a amazing tidbit and just going with it without fact checking.

Honestly though, it wouldn't surprise me. He's been busy trying to one-up himself in saying mental gak.

**hotsauceman1**

You guys ever think that donald trump is just one long running performance art piece by a single guy trying to prove that americans will believe the craziest gak

**agnosto**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
You guys ever think that donald trump is just one long running performance art piece by a single guy trying to prove that americans will believe the craziest gak

Yes. My sincerest hope is that this is all a game of "gotcha" or the game of a rich man proving people are dumb rubes.

**BrotherGecko**

All of my being hopes that to be true but I really think in his land of crazy he really just believes these things.

Worst part is that his worshipers probably have little to no understanding of how the internet works or just what exactly Trump is implying.

An seeing as this apparently is coming off his feud with Amazon's Bezos, would Trump be closing off Amazon?

-_-

**CptJake**

Trump is a negotiator. He will spit out the most extreme position as the start point. As the primary season goes on and the number of candidates in the race goes down, expect him to 'refine' those positions (as much as he needs to). Then (if he gets the nomination) he'll likely refine more towards the middle while still making the D candidate look far left and capitalizing on what he thinks R base wants to hear.

**agnosto**

CptJake wrote:
Trump is a negotiator. He will spit out the most extreme position as the start point. As the primary season goes on and the number of candidates in the race goes down, expect him to 'refine' those positions (as much as he needs to). Then (if he gets the nomination) he'll likely refine more towards the middle while still making the D candidate look far left and capitalizing on what he thinks R base wants to hear.

This is actually closer to the truth and something that we've seen in at least the last few elections, cater to the wing-nuts to get the nomination and then pull more towards the middle as election time comes around to attract the people in the middle who would otherwise vote democrat rather than elect someone who sounds insane into office (I'm in this category).

**A Town Called Malus**

CptJake wrote:
Trump is a negotiator. He will spit out the most extreme position as the start point. As the primary season goes on and the number of candidates in the race goes down, expect him to 'refine' those positions (as much as he needs to). Then (if he gets the nomination) he'll likely refine more towards the middle while still making the D candidate look far left and capitalizing on what he thinks R base wants to hear.

The problem with that hypothesis is that there is no way to "refine" his "ideas" to the middle as they have no substance to refine in the first place, being based on ignorance and stupidity.

Trump is not a smart man. He's an idiot who would have about the same amount of wealth now (and maybe more) if he had just invested his inheritance rather than trying to play at being a businessman.

**BrotherGecko**

I think he has gone way too far into extremism for any self respecting moderate to consider him viable. If this is just his strategy as a negotiator he might be the worst out there. How could doing what is doing now be quickly forgotten in a matter of a few months?

**Ashiraya**

Trump continued, "Somebody will say, 'Oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech.' These are foolish people."

I find this pretty funny. Seems some parts of the constitution are more important than others.

Seriously though, this guy is nuts. When did he escape from the men in white?

(Though at this point I wouldn't put the men in black out of the question either...)

**A Town Called Malus**

BrotherGecko wrote:
I think he has gone way too far into extremism for any self respecting moderate to consider him viable. If this is just his strategy as a negotiator he might be the worst out there. How could doing what is doing now be quickly forgotten in a matter of a few months?

This. If Trump were a police negotiator his opening line to a hostage taker would probably be along the lines of "Okay, we're going to assault in 5 minutes unless you kill yourself now". Which is all very good for being tough on crime and mean and nasty, but not very good at getting hostages out alive.

**Frazzled**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
You guys ever think that donald trump is just one long running performance art piece by a single guy trying to prove that americans will believe the craziest gak

Or a plant by the HRC campaign, and he's digging the publicity.

Reports are that he's spent almost no money. He's a publicity addict and this is the ultimate rush.

**BrotherGecko**

Frazzled wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
You guys ever think that donald trump is just one long running performance art piece by a single guy trying to prove that americans will believe the craziest gak

Or a plant by the HRC campaign, and he's digging the publicity.

Reports are that he's spent almost no money. He's a publicity addict and this is the ultimate rush.

An being a monarch is his dream.

**d-usa**

The problem really has nothing to do with how insane/racist/stupid/idiotic/vile/whatever Trump really is, the problem is with the fact that so many people are supporting him.

That's why I think that Trump and his supporters are our domestic rise of the extreme right nationalist front.

I was annoyed with the Tea Party, but at the core I still think that the Tea Party just hated government. This group hates actual living breathing people.

**hotsauceman1**

BrotherGecko wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
You guys ever think that donald trump is just one long running performance art piece by a single guy trying to prove that americans will believe the craziest gak

Or a plant by the HRC campaign, and he's digging the publicity.

Reports are that he's spent almost no money. He's a publicity addict and this is the ultimate rush.

An being a monarch is his dream.

With politics starting to resemble royalty with political dynasties, lifelong terms in office, and what amounts to inheriting offices...........

**Gordon Shumway**

agnosto wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
You guys ever think that donald trump is just one long running performance art piece by a single guy trying to prove that americans will believe the craziest gak

Yes. My sincerest hope is that this is all a game of "gotcha" or the game of a rich man proving people are dumb rubes.

There is a theory out there that Trump never thought he would get as far as he is and it was all a publicity stunt from the beginning and now that he has been in the lead for some time, he is doing everything he can to torpedo his candidacy with inanity. Of course that theory would imply that 1)Trump has some modicum of rationality underneath that coif and 2) he had no idea that a sizable minority of the country was so racist and gak awful stupid.

**Frazzled**

d-usa wrote:
The problem really has nothing to do with how insane/racist/stupid/idiotic/vile/whatever Trump really is, the problem is with the fact that so many people are supporting him.

That's why I think that Trump and his supporters are our domestic rise of the extreme right nationalist front.

I was annoyed with the Tea Party, but at the core I still think that the Tea Party just hated government. This group hates actual living breathing people.

I would not just say right. Many of his actual policies are punctually main line Democratic-health care for example. Concerns over immigration is a concern for a majority of US pollers-just neither party cares.

**Ensis Ferrae**

d-usa wrote:

I was annoyed with the Tea Party, but at the core I still think that the Tea Party just hated government. This group hates actual living breathing people.

Anecdotally, the problem I have with this is that my casual notice of Trump supporters, is that far too many of them are also Tea Party.

Obviously, there's nothing that says the Tea Party, or Conservatism, Classical Liberalism/Progressive Liberalism, etc. are all mutually exclusive.

**d-usa**

Frazzled wrote:
d-usa wrote:
The problem really has nothing to do with how insane/racist/stupid/idiotic/vile/whatever Trump really is, the problem is with the fact that so many people are supporting him.

That's why I think that Trump and his supporters are our domestic rise of the extreme right nationalist front.

I was annoyed with the Tea Party, but at the core I still think that the Tea Party just hated government. This group hates actual living breathing people.

I would not just say right. Many of his actual policies are punctually main line Democratic-health care for example. Concerns over immigration is a concern for a majority of US pollers-just neither party cares.

Except he is way past health care and mainline immigration.

It's the fact that there is excitement and support for the "Mexicans are rapists and murderers", "mark Muslims", "put them in camps", and now "forbid all Muslims, even Citizens, from entering the country" ideas.

it doesn't matter that they are very well nonsensical ideas that won't go anywhere. People are supporting those ideas, and that is what is dangerous.

**Easy E**

d-usa wrote:
The problem really has nothing to do with how insane/racist/stupid/idiotic/vile/whatever Trump really is, the problem is with the fact that so many people are supporting him.

That's why I think that Trump and his supporters are our domestic rise of the extreme right nationalist front.

I was annoyed with the Tea Party, but at the core I still think that the Tea Party just hated government. This group hates actual living breathing people.

It can't happen here!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can%27t_Happen_Here

**d-usa**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
d-usa wrote:

I was annoyed with the Tea Party, but at the core I still think that the Tea Party just hated government. This group hates actual living breathing people.

Anecdotally, the problem I have with this is that my casual notice of Trump supporters, is that far too many of them are also Tea Party.

Obviously, there's nothing that says the Tea Party, or Conservatism, Classical Liberalism/Progressive Liberalism, etc. are all mutually exclusive.

Yeah, there are a few in my family that fall in both camps.

But I didn't want to automatically lump them both in together because of that. I've also known a few Tea Party folks that look at Trump and get scared.

**Frazzled**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
agnosto wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
You guys ever think that donald trump is just one long running performance art piece by a single guy trying to prove that americans will believe the craziest gak

Yes. My sincerest hope is that this is all a game of "gotcha" or the game of a rich man proving people are dumb rubes.

There is a theory out there that Trump never thought he would get as far as he is and it was all a publicity stunt from the beginning and now that he has been in the lead for some time, he is doing everything he can to torpedo his candidacy with inanity. Of course that theory would imply that 1)Trump has some modicum of rationality underneath that coif and 2) he had no idea that a sizable minority of the country was so racist and gak awful stupid.

Why are they stupid? Let me Trumpsplain it to you:

-Many of the Eastern European countries have refused Syrians-Poland just announced it. Considering their history with the Turks, there is some reasoning there.
-Trade deals: how many have helped the working class? Is there a working class left?
-Same to same for illegal immigration that both parties actually support.

Now the fun part will be when people actually vote in primaries. Right now its just prom queen polling. I still put money on Rubio and someone as VP.

**Ensis Ferrae**

d-usa wrote:

it doesn't matter that they are very well nonsensical ideas that won't go anywhere. People are supporting those ideas, and that is what is dangerous.

Especially when you consider that, if you peruse a site like Facebook, where figures like George Takei are raising red flags saying, "whoa, hold on there folks... I personally was in the kind of situation you want to reimagine and emulate. This ain't cool at all"

And you have people responding with, "shut your libtarded mouth" or similar negative phrases.

**Frazzled**

Ensis Ferrae wrote:
d-usa wrote:

it doesn't matter that they are very well nonsensical ideas that won't go anywhere. People are supporting those ideas, and that is what is dangerous.

Especially when you consider that, if you peruse a site like Facebook, where figures like George Takei are raising red flags saying, "whoa, hold on there folks... I personally was in the kind of situation you want to reimagine and emulate. This ain't cool at all"

And you have people responding with, "shut your libtarded mouth" or similar negative phrases.

I have faith that the US military will protect us from all enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC should the situation arise.

**Gordon Shumway**

Donald Trump is the physical embodiment of the worst of online discussion forums. He is the ephemeral made real. Funny how the leader of the GOP primary would get suspended quickly from dakka.

**whembly**

Ouze wrote:
whembly wrote:
Hermain Cain was leading the poll at this point in '12.

Polls are useful now (ie, anyone polling <5% ought to think about dropping out)... but, I think it's a mistake to put too much weight on these polls at the moment.

Heh heh heh.

Heh...

I'll tell you what man... Teh Trumpo™ is doing a damned good job of uniting just about everyone against him.