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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Wasserman and now Clinton flubbed the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist on Hardball

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Fort Worth, TX

As much as I loathe and despise Cruz, I feel the only possible reaction to Trump's latest comments regarding Cruz's citizenship issues is best expressed by:
Spoiler:

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One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Jihadin wrote:
Wasserman and now Clinton flubbed the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist on Hardball

Heh...


transcript:
MATTHEWS: OK, last question, we’re running out of time. I want to try to help you for this audience tonight, our audience, locate yourself politically in this country. Now, we have Trump out there and we have Bernie out here. Now, Bernie calls himself a socialist. Nobody uses a derogatory term anymore. He loves to have that label. He’s never ran as a Democrat, he runs against Democrats up there in Vermont. You’re a Democrat. I would say you’re a pretty typical Democrat, in the traditional Democratic Party. And Humphry and the rest of them. Scoop [Jackson], not even Scoop, I’d say Rondale, you’re somewhere in there. What’s the difference between a socialist and a Democrat. Is that a question you want to answer or you’d rather not, politically.

CLINTON: Well, you’d have to –

MATTHEWS: Well, see, I’m asking you. You’re a Democrat, he’s a socialist. Would you like somebody to call you a socialist? I wouldn’t like somebody calling me a socialist.

CLINTON: But I’m not one. I mean, I’m not one.

MATTHEWS: What’s the difference between a socialist and a Democrat. That’s the question.

CLINTON: I can tell you what I am. I am a Progressive Democrat.

MATTHEWS: How is that deferent than a socialist?

CLINTON: I’m a Progressive Democrat who likes to get things done and who believes that we are better off in this country when we’re trying to solve problems together. Getting people to work together. There will always be strong feelings and I respect that, from, you know, the far right, the far left, libertarians, whoever it might be. We need to get people working together. We’ve got to get the economy fixed, we’ve got to get all of our problems, you know, really tackled and that’s what I want to do.

MATTHEWS: I think the difference is, and Debbie Wasserman Schultz wouldn’t answer the question either when I asked her. Because I know politically you have to keep together the center-left and the left has to work together. I know all of that.

Academically I can crack open some textbooks to show that there *is* a different between Bernie's view of Socialism and the modern Democratic Party.

In practice in American politicks... is there a difference?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/06 17:35:23


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Runnin up on ya.

Other than knee-jerk Cold War garbage, what's wrong with being a Socialist?

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 agnosto wrote:
Other than knee-jerk Cold War garbage, what's wrong with being a Socialist?


Well, if you're talking about a "pure" socialist, there's quite a bit wrong.... There's very little room for democratically elected officials and the like.


If you're talking about a democratic socialist (as in much of Scandinavia), then I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
   
Made in us
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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 agnosto wrote:
Other than knee-jerk Cold War garbage, what's wrong with being a Socialist?


Too much power for the government to abuse. Even in so called "Democratic Socialism"

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Made in us
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Runnin up on ya.

 Grey Templar wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
Other than knee-jerk Cold War garbage, what's wrong with being a Socialist?


Too much power for the government to abuse. Even in so called "Democratic Socialism"


Meh. Versions of it seems to work OK in other countries. And before you jump on that statement, know that every political or social policy has issues. Believe it or not, the US even has socialist type policies/programs in place, minimum wage being an example.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 agnosto wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
Other than knee-jerk Cold War garbage, what's wrong with being a Socialist?


Too much power for the government to abuse. Even in so called "Democratic Socialism"


Meh. Versions of it seems to work OK in other countries. And before you jump on that statement, know that every political or social policy has issues. Believe it or not, the US even has socialist type policies/programs in place, minimum wage being an example.


Some socialist policies are ok, like Minimum Wage as a concept(but its often wrongly implemented). Many are not. And yes, I actually have huge issues with many policies that are in place in the US. Too many of them are unsustainable, like Social Security.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

 Grey Templar wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 agnosto wrote:
Other than knee-jerk Cold War garbage, what's wrong with being a Socialist?


Too much power for the government to abuse. Even in so called "Democratic Socialism"


Meh. Versions of it seems to work OK in other countries. And before you jump on that statement, know that every political or social policy has issues. Believe it or not, the US even has socialist type policies/programs in place, minimum wage being an example.


Some socialist policies are ok, like Minimum Wage as a concept(but its often wrongly implemented). Many are not. And yes, I actually have huge issues with many policies that are in place in the US. Too many of them are unsustainable, like Social Security.


Other than the creation of poor houses or Logan Run-esque culling, what alternative would you recommend for social security to help prepare people who are living check-to-check for retirement?

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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Catskills in NYS

 whembly wrote:
 Jihadin wrote:
Wasserman and now Clinton flubbed the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist on Hardball


In practice in American politicks... is there a difference?



No.

The Democratic party (at least in the mainstream) aims for a light form of socialism, and the US operates (currently) on a lighter form.

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 kronk wrote:
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 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
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I would rather see it be more like a government mandated savings account. Your actual money goes into an actual account which you cannot access until you retire, or something else like a disability triggers it. IE: You get out what you put into it, and could put additional money in if you wanted. The main problem with social security is the draw on it is much larger than what is getting put into it at the moment. It was created with the assumption that the population would have a pyramid shaped distribution, with a growing younger generation putting more in than is currently being drawn out. It doesn't account for a population with roughly equal distribution(Or more old people than young as is currently the case) that modern societies resemble.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/06 19:01:46


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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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Made in us
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Catskills in NYS

The limit on SS tax doesn't help.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Grey... the problem with SS is that Congress changed it over the years to basically a "tax" that it all goes into the General Funds™, and the congress-critters swearsies that they'll "fund" it.

It evolved from an actual savings plan to an unfunded liability. Defacto description of a ponzi scheme.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
The limit on SS tax doesn't help.

That's one tax law that DOES benefit the rich.

I'm for removing that cap.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/06 19:05:18


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Oh thats a problem too. They definitely shouldn't be treating it as a pool they can "borrow" from at will. But SS did have a fundamental population distribution flaw to begin with, though to be fair this population shifts wasn't obvious at the time they created it.

Social Security as it was originally envisioned might have worked ok in the 1700-1800s when populations were continuously growing.

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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Runnin up on ya.

Great conversation.

The problem is that politicians are afraid to touch it for reform because there is absolutely no way of making everyone happy.

I actually agreed with Trump's statement that he thinks multi-millionaires shouldn't receive SS benefits and he'd be happy to give his up.

I don't know what the answer is but I strongly believe that a system that is dependent upon interest rates, like a savings account, or the vagaries of the stock market, like a 401k are both wrong.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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I wish people would stop bringing up 'borrowing' from Social Security. It's a bit of a red herring.

Social Security invests the money they have in US bonds which pay interest at the normal rate to Social Security.

The only reason Social Security has any issues with running out of money is the fact that there is an upper limit on how much can be taxed and that not all income types are taxed.

With more of the money in the US going to the people already above the taxing limits, that causes a lower percentage of money to go into Social Security.

Personally, if I had my way, I would do away with Social Security, Welfare, EITC, etc and replace it with a guaranteed income.
   
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With the Fed running the printing presses full speed over the last decade and artificially keeping interest rates low, the dollars coming out of those bonds are worth less than the dollars that bought them.

When the gov't can buy its own debt to the extent we are doing , lack of tax revenue is not the problem.

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Sorry, I tune out any time someone starts going off about 'Fed running printing presses'...

Lack of tax revenue for Social Security is indeed a thing.
   
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Runnin up on ya.

 skyth wrote:
I wish people would stop bringing up 'borrowing' from Social Security. It's a bit of a red herring.

Social Security invests the money they have in US bonds which pay interest at the normal rate to Social Security.

The only reason Social Security has any issues with running out of money is the fact that there is an upper limit on how much can be taxed and that not all income types are taxed.

With more of the money in the US going to the people already above the taxing limits, that causes a lower percentage of money to go into Social Security.

Personally, if I had my way, I would do away with Social Security, Welfare, EITC, etc and replace it with a guaranteed income.


I honestly haven't thought of that, very good point. I think social safety nets are needed for people with disabilities and the aged though.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

 whembly wrote:
Grey... the problem with SS is that Congress changed it over the years to basically a "tax" that it all goes into the General Funds™, and the congress-critters swearsies that they'll "fund" it.

It evolved from an actual savings plan to an unfunded liability. Defacto description of a ponzi scheme.



So Whembly, you are in favor of a Lockbox?


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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Easy E wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Grey... the problem with SS is that Congress changed it over the years to basically a "tax" that it all goes into the General Funds™, and the congress-critters swearsies that they'll "fund" it.

It evolved from an actual savings plan to an unfunded liability. Defacto description of a ponzi scheme.



So Whembly, you are in favor of a Lockbox?


IF we're gunna do it, aye. Or even Bush's partial privatized SS plan.

'Cuz, as it stands now... my generation would be lucky to see a penny from it.

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 whembly wrote:
Grey... the problem with SS is that Congress changed it over the years to basically a "tax" that it all goes into the General Funds™, and the congress-critters swearsies that they'll "fund" it.

It evolved from an actual savings plan to an unfunded liability. Defacto description of a ponzi scheme.



It didn't really even evolve.... In order to pass it in the first place, FDR had to give concessions on the funding for it, and thus it has been near continuously raided and "borrowed" against for other pet projects.

That is something I think needs to be gotten rid of entirely.
   
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Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

Better late than never...
Congress sends health care repeal to Obama, setting up certain veto...

Make him defend it.

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United States

Paul Ryan wrote:“I mean, how many times have we been saying we want to put bills on his desk that say who we are and what we believe versus what he believes,” Ryan (R-Wis.) told Fox News host Sean Hannity on Tuesday night. “We have to go on offense in 2016, and we have to offer a bold agenda to the country.”


Bloviation.

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Fort Worth, TX

That's why I said the ACA has done more for the Republican party than for the Democrats. With this latest, they can now say "oh well, we tried (again), but you didn't elect enough of us into office in 2014, so vote for more of us in 2016!"

I wonder, though, if they'll still find some way to "fail" to repeal it so they can use it in 2018.

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One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
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The Great State of Texas



For the 80th time. Quit grandstanding and do the People's business. Your paid to work. DO IT.

Jeez if HRC wasn't anti gun I'd vote partyline Demo just to get these welfare queens out.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Runnin up on ya.

 Frazzled wrote:


For the 80th time. Quit grandstanding and do the People's business. Your paid to work. DO IT.

Jeez if HRC wasn't anti gun I'd vote partyline Demo just to get these welfare queens out.


I agree. Grand gestures are all well and good but they're just wasting time. If they don't have anything better to do, send them home and cut their pay.

Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do 
   
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CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence

It is more than a grand gesture. It made several vulnerable Democratic congress critters put their name to a vote on it which will be used in the upcoming elections.

Both sides do this. Crap Bags like Rubio avoid hard votes (like the Omnibus) to protect their record.

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Did anyone see the recent Frontline program on Netanyahu? It was an iteresting program in general, but particlarly interesting to me as a contrast between the perhaps bleak fatalism of a fortress mentality foreign policy with the perhaps naive optimism of a young leader trying to reset the US image with the Muslim world.

In any case it was a good documentary. Plenty for both foreign policy hawks and doves to sink their teeth into regarding the current situation in the middle east, and th current relationship between the US and Israel.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/07 16:17:39


 
   
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United States

 CptJake wrote:
It is more than a grand gesture. It made several vulnerable Democratic congress critters put their name to a vote on it which will be used in the upcoming elections.


Which vulnerable Democrats are those?

 CptJake wrote:

Both sides do this. Crap Bags like Rubio avoid hard votes (like the Omnibus) to protect their record.


So are we ignoring the fact that people (The People, especially.) tend to ignore difficult questions?

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
 
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