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Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




I think Sander's popularity, especially with the young, has a whole lot to do with the bailout of the bank bailouts. I mean, there's a huge swath of the populous who grew up watching the federal government bail out these ginormous institutions while their parents and neighbors got squat.
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





It has a lot to do with growing up in a recession and watching our middle class shrink and be destroyed over time. Watching these big job making corporations take jobs away and ship them overseas.

Basically Sanders voters are tired of the hypocrisy. "If we lower the taxes they will save us!" has yet to work.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 jasper76 wrote:
I think Sander's popularity, especially with the young, has a whole lot to do with the bailout of the bank bailouts. I mean, there's a huge swath of the populous who grew up watching the federal government bail out these ginormous institutions while their parents and neighbors got squat.

That's an interesting thought process... as many in the center of right/righties were opposed to the Wall Street / GM / "Too Big to Fail" bailouts.

<--- this guy wanted Wall Street / GM to file bankruptcy...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
It has a lot to do with growing up in a recession and watching our middle class shrink and be destroyed over time. Watching these big job making corporations take jobs away and ship them overseas.

Basically Sanders voters are tired of the hypocrisy. "If we lower the taxes they will save us!" has yet to work.

Hmmm... so Sanders is that "insurgent candidate" of the Democrats, just as Cruz/Rubio/Carson/Trump are the "insurgent candidate" in the GOP field.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/03 23:25:37


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




1998


   
Made in us
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
As far as the Rubio quote: if God gave us these rights, what about the people who live in countries who don't have these rights? God hates or disregards them? Nope. The constitution gives these rights, even if it says "God given". Read some of the debate that went into that phrase. The pols weren't above pandering at the time either (see above). It was always self aware politics. The problem I have is some pols today miss the self awareness.


Rather than posting the YouTube video for the umpteenth time in this thread, I'll instead post the relevant part of the transcript of George Carlin's "You Have No Rights" bit and how they're "God given":
Spoiler:
Personally, folks, I believe that if your rights came from God, he would have given you the right to have some food every day, and he would have given you the right to a roof over your head, God would have been looking out for you. [applause] God would have been looking out for you. [applause] You know that? He wouldn’t have been worrying about making sure you have a gun so you can get drunk on Sunday night and kill your girlfriend’s parents.

But let’s say it’s true, let’s say God gave us these rights. Why would he give us a certain number of rights? The Bill of Rights of this country has ten stipulations, okay? Ten rights. And apparently God was doing sloppy work that week because we had to amend the Bill of Rights an additional seventeen times. So God forgot a couple of things. Like… slavery! Just fething slipped his mind. [laughing] But let’s say, let’s say God gave us the original ten. He gave the British thirteen, the British Bill of Rights has thirteen stipulations. The Germans have twenty-nine, the Belgians have twenty-five, the Swedish have only six, and some people in the world have no rights at all. What kind of a fething goddamn god-given deal is that? No rights at all? Why would God give different people in different countries different numbers of different rights? Boredom? Amusement? Bad arithmetic? Do we find out at long last after all this time that God is weak in math skills? Doesn’t sound like divine planning to me. Sounds more like human planning. Sounds more like one group trying to control another group. In other words, business as usual in America.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:

... and it's surprising to me that Bernie is that popular amongst the Democratic constituents.


Whhaaaaatttt? Are you saying you would prefer us to vote Hillary instead?


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/04 00:04:00


"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 whembly wrote:
 jasper76 wrote:
I think Sander's popularity, especially with the young, has a whole lot to do with the bailout of the bank bailouts. I mean, there's a huge swath of the populous who grew up watching the federal government bail out these ginormous institutions while their parents and neighbors got squat.

That's an interesting thought process... as many in the center of right/righties were opposed to the Wall Street / GM / "Too Big to Fail" bailouts.

<--- this guy wanted Wall Street / GM to file bankruptcy...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
It has a lot to do with growing up in a recession and watching our middle class shrink and be destroyed over time. Watching these big job making corporations take jobs away and ship them overseas.

Basically Sanders voters are tired of the hypocrisy. "If we lower the taxes they will save us!" has yet to work.

Hmmm... so Sanders is that "insurgent candidate" of the Democrats, just as Cruz/Rubio/Carson/Trump are the "insurgent candidate" in the GOP field.


Um, no. 3/4 of the people you listed are "religious zealot candidates" and the other is a plant by HRC.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

... and it's surprising to me that Bernie is that popular amongst the Democratic constituents.


Whhaaaaatttt? Are you saying you would prefer us to vote Hillary instead?





Flip a coin?

Hey... maybe HRC would not only be the first Female president... but, also the first president incarcerated in the WEST White House (aka Florence ADX).

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Chicago

 whembly wrote:
 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

... and it's surprising to me that Bernie is that popular amongst the Democratic constituents.


Whhaaaaatttt? Are you saying you would prefer us to vote Hillary instead?





Flip a coin?

Hey... maybe HRC would not only be the first Female president... but, also the first president incarcerated in the WEST White House (aka Florence ADX).


Yeah its too bad it wasn't around for Reagan, it would of been the perfect home for him

Ustrello paints- 30k, 40k multiple armies
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/614742.page 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Dreadwinter wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 jasper76 wrote:
I think Sander's popularity, especially with the young, has a whole lot to do with the bailout of the bank bailouts. I mean, there's a huge swath of the populous who grew up watching the federal government bail out these ginormous institutions while their parents and neighbors got squat.

That's an interesting thought process... as many in the center of right/righties were opposed to the Wall Street / GM / "Too Big to Fail" bailouts.

<--- this guy wanted Wall Street / GM to file bankruptcy...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
It has a lot to do with growing up in a recession and watching our middle class shrink and be destroyed over time. Watching these big job making corporations take jobs away and ship them overseas.

Basically Sanders voters are tired of the hypocrisy. "If we lower the taxes they will save us!" has yet to work.

Hmmm... so Sanders is that "insurgent candidate" of the Democrats, just as Cruz/Rubio/Carson/Trump are the "insurgent candidate" in the GOP field.


Um, no. 3/4 of the people you listed are "religious zealot candidates" and the other is a plant by HRC.

And one Democratic candidate is a commie loving socialist... the other should be in Federal Prison.

If all of them are true, we're all so boned.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 whembly wrote:
And one Democratic candidate is a commie loving socialist...


Which of course is total BS.

 whembly wrote:
the other should be in Federal Prison.


Maybe, but then someone with such an impossibly narrow view of events makes it difficult to determine, tbh.


Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ahtman wrote:
 whembly wrote:
And one Democratic candidate is a commie loving socialist...


Which of course is total BS.

 whembly wrote:
the other should be in Federal Prison.





And after all this time someone is still mistaking being entitled to your own opinion with being entitled to your own facts...
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Dreadwinter wrote:
You're not understanding. The whole Sander's movement has been downplayed since the beginning by virtually everybody. Nobody thought he would ever do this well. Many people have been saying that he stands absolutely no chance and he will be destroyed.

He has just proven them very wrong. Saying "He may have barely lost, but he still lost" is not really an argument when the narrative that has been displayed by most of the media has been "he doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell".


Not when he still doesn’t stand a snowballs chance of winning.

I’ll explain it in a fun way, because maybe then you’ll get it. Imagine I said I was going to jump over a house in a single bound. A quick run up and then as high a jump as I could manage. People would say I can’t do that. And then I wait until there’s almost perfect conditions and I jump, and I get almost 8 feet above the ground.

That’d be a great effort, almost a world record. People might be surprised how well I did. But it would change nothing about the sheer impossibility of actually jumping over the house.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 skyth wrote:
 Ahtman wrote:
 whembly wrote:
And one Democratic candidate is a commie loving socialist...


Which of course is total BS.

 whembly wrote:
the other should be in Federal Prison.





And after all this time someone is still mistaking being entitled to your own opinion with being entitled to your own facts...

Sanders isn't a socialist? o.O

As to HRC, please note the word "should". Nothing is going to happen to her and AG Loretta has to be the one to formally indict. If she doesn't, the worst thing that would happen is that some high profile FBI / IC folks me resign in protest. Remains to be seen how that'll shake out....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 sebster wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
You're not understanding. The whole Sander's movement has been downplayed since the beginning by virtually everybody. Nobody thought he would ever do this well. Many people have been saying that he stands absolutely no chance and he will be destroyed.

He has just proven them very wrong. Saying "He may have barely lost, but he still lost" is not really an argument when the narrative that has been displayed by most of the media has been "he doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell".


Not when he still doesn’t stand a snowballs chance of winning.

I’ll explain it in a fun way, because maybe then you’ll get it. Imagine I said I was going to jump over a house in a single bound. A quick run up and then as high a jump as I could manage. People would say I can’t do that. And then I wait until there’s almost perfect conditions and I jump, and I get almost 8 feet above the ground.

That’d be a great effort, almost a world record. People might be surprised how well I did. But it would change nothing about the sheer impossibility of actually jumping over the house.

That's.... a great way to describe that.

I think Sander's ceiling will be his win in NH next monday. But that won't matter has HRC has got the super-delegates locked down.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/04 02:41:11


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
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Eastern edge

I will laugh when Bernie wins the primary and then the General. this thread will erupt.

"Your mumblings are awakening the sleeping Dragon, be wary when meddling the affairs of Dragons, for thou art tasty and go good with either ketchup or chocolate. "
Dragons fear nothing, if it acts up, we breath magic fire that turns them into marshmallow peeps. We leaguers only cry rivets!



 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 shasolenzabi wrote:
I will laugh when Bernie wins the primary and then the General. this thread will erupt.


Undoubtedly...


One thing I am enjoying, on the facebook side of things, are the recent spate of Sanders vs. Hilary "posters" where they compare each candidate's stance on various "issues".... such as the WWE, Black Sabbath, etc.
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 shasolenzabi wrote:
I will laugh when Bernie wins the primary and then the General. this thread will erupt.


Nah, then Sebster is going to have to jump a house and that is impossible! So that means Bernie winning the election is impossible!



Whembly, you know Democratic Socialist and Socialist are different right? Pretty sure we have had to explain this to you before. But you keep going off and using those buzz words to try to make a point like the evil media you hate so much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/04 03:23:41


 
   
Made in us
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Leerstetten, Germany

Facts aren't facts until they are TwittahFacts(tm)
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Dreadwinter wrote:
Sebster, I am not sure you know what you are talking about.


Okay, whatever. Go on 538, and start looking at the state by state poll aggregate. Look past New Hampshire, and find me a state where Sanders is getting more than about a third of the vote.

Anyhow, this happens each election cycle. People get whooped up by their candidate, and assume because they really like someone, then everyone must really like them. They ignore the numbers because they're just not telling the story of how excited they personally are. Do you remember Rove’s 2012 meltdown? Don’t be Rove.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
I think Sander's ceiling will be his win in NH next monday. But that won't matter has HRC has got the super-delegates locked down.


It doesn't matter because past New Hampshire there's like two other states where Sanders is polling an even or winning score.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/02/04 03:56:01


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 sebster wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
Sebster, I am not sure you know what you are talking about.


Okay, whatever. Go on 538, and start looking at the state by state poll aggregate. Look past New Hampshire, and find me a state where Sanders is polling past 30%.

Anyhow, this happens each election cycle. People get whooped up by their candidate, and assume because they really like someone, then everyone must really like them. They ignore the numbers because they're just not telling the story of how excited they personally are. Do you remember Rove’s 2012 meltdown? Don’t be Rove.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
I think Sander's ceiling will be his win in NH next monday. But that won't matter has HRC has got the super-delegates locked down.


It doesn't matter because past New Hampshire there's like two other states where Sanders is polling north of 30%.


You mean like Obama?
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Dreadwinter wrote:
You mean like Obama?


Obama won Iowa. Which was my point to you originally - the difference in the narrative between 'we won' and 'we lost but by less than we were expected to'.

And so just in terms of narrative Sanders is already behind Obama’s 2008. Then we look at the fundamentals, Obama’s positioning relative to Sanders and his appeal across demographics, and we realise that he was set to turn a good Iowa result in to wins in lots of other states, something that's a much bigger stretch for Sanders, who's appeal is much more limited. And then we remember that even with all that, Clinton won the vote count in 2008, she’d just screwed up securing delegates, something she hasn’t done this time.

So get all excited that you’re all primed to jump over the house. In the end all that’ll mean is that everyone forgot you actually jumped 8 foot, almost a world record.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 sebster wrote:
 Dreadwinter wrote:
You mean like Obama?


Obama won Iowa. Which was my point to you originally - the difference in the narrative between 'we won' and 'we lost but by less than we were expected to'.

And so just in terms of narrative Sanders is already behind Obama’s 2008. Then we look at the fundamentals, Obama’s positioning relative to Sanders and his appeal across demographics, and we realise that he was set to turn a good Iowa result in to wins in lots of other states, something that's a much bigger stretch for Sanders, who's appeal is much more limited. And then we remember that even with all that, Clinton won the vote count in 2008, she’d just screwed up securing delegates, something she hasn’t done this time.

So get all excited that you’re all primed to jump over the house. In the end all that’ll mean is that everyone forgot you actually jumped 8 foot, almost a world record.


Sanders has been behind in the narrative this entire time. Not sure how you are not getting this. He has been regarded as the black sheep from the beginning. The fact that he was able to pull this close to her and only lose in delegates because of a coin toss is way better than expected. Even more so when the party he is running for has been against him the entire time. Buuuuut, nah he lost. Even though he got delegates from it. You are acting like his whole campaign is going to fall apart and that is hilarious to me.

I am excited to see you jump over a house though. I will even let you use one of those little princess houses you get for your kids if you want.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Dreadwinter wrote:

Sanders has been behind in the narrative this entire time. Not sure how you are not getting this. He has been regarded as the black sheep from the beginning. The fact that he was able to pull this close to her and only lose in delegates because of a coin toss is way better than expected. Even more so when the party he is running for has been against him the entire time. Buuuuut, nah he lost. Even though he got delegates from it. You are acting like his whole campaign is going to fall apart and that is hilarious to me.

I am excited to see you jump over a house though. I will even let you use one of those little princess houses you get for your kids if you want.



Probably the only thing Sanders' hasn't been behind in, is fundraising.... Many media outlets ran stories about his campaign "shattering" Obama's fundraising efforts during his 08 campaign. And keep in mind, Sanders is setting these monetary records without the use of Super PACs or other sources of large, one time donations. As he's said often himself, the average donation is $29.


That should tell you that, while he may not have polled "well" in Iowa (let's not forget that 6 delegates came down to a coin toss, and somehow Clinton won all 6 of them), he clearly has popular support around the country.
   
Made in us
Proud Triarch Praetorian





Shhh, no man. The polls are the only thing that matter! Especially since they only cover certain demographics of people and are not really a good representation of the masses. Especially in those who had never previously voted in the 18-25 bracket.
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






 whembly wrote:
Sanders isn't a socialist?


He isn't a 'commie loving socialist', which was the original claim. Saying someone is reckless with their words doesn't mean the opposite is true, just that they are foolhardy when they speak.


Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Inquisitor with Xenos Bodyguards





Eastern edge

Things have been shifting to Sanders' way, he has the 18-44 voters, he is getting shifts of endorsements from folks who have switched from Hillary to him, he has Minorities out there shifting to him, women, and older folks as well.


As for the Republicans, well it is getting downright nasty between the top runners.

"Your mumblings are awakening the sleeping Dragon, be wary when meddling the affairs of Dragons, for thou art tasty and go good with either ketchup or chocolate. "
Dragons fear nothing, if it acts up, we breath magic fire that turns them into marshmallow peeps. We leaguers only cry rivets!



 
   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






In the end I think Sander's has the popular support, but since Hillary has the higher ups and Super-delegates I don't think it will matter much. In primaries being liked by your party management is probably more important.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

 Ouze wrote:
Huckabee suspends his campaign, and nothing of value was lost.

Good luck with renegotiating your contract with Fox News, sir!




Surely -- even though his whole campaign is effectively stillborn -- he should be forced to carry on through the whole term, even though this will cause suffering and expense, because to do otherwise would be going against gods' will .

Of course it might not have been a legitimate campaign -- political bodies have ways of shutting that down.

or something.

The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
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 jasper76 wrote:
You know, I bet a good chunk of the Ron/Rand Paul "Liberty voters" types may stay home from this point forward. They really don't have a candidate to vote for. Everyone left is a hawk of one degree or another, and its not like there's a big civil liberties voice left. I also think alot of these voters are turned off by religiosity in politics.



Maybe. I don't know if there is an average Rand voter, though. I was for him despite him being a dove, not because of it, for example.

The loss of the only civil liberties candidate on either side is what really sucks, but we all knew it was going to happen. The big thing now is getting the most electable Republican to the top of the pile and getting him through the general so we don't wind up with any more "wise Latinas" elevated to the Supreme Court.
   
Made in us
Thane of Dol Guldur




Seaward wrote:
 jasper76 wrote:
You know, I bet a good chunk of the Ron/Rand Paul "Liberty voters" types may stay home from this point forward. They really don't have a candidate to vote for. Everyone left is a hawk of one degree or another, and its not like there's a big civil liberties voice left. I also think alot of these voters are turned off by religiosity in politics.



Maybe. I don't know if there is an average Rand voter, though. I was for him despite him being a dove, not because of it, for example.

The loss of the only civil liberties candidate on either side is what really sucks, but we all knew it was going to happen. The big thing now is getting the most electable Republican to the top of the pile and getting him through the general so we don't wind up with any more "wise Latinas" elevated to the Supreme Court.


"Wise Latina" dig aside, if you want an electable candidate, you all better start congealing around Rubio or Christie, because Cruz is many things, but palatable to the left is not among them.
   
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 jasper76 wrote:

"Wise Latina" dig aside, if you want an electable candidate, you all better start congealing around Rubio or Christie, because Cruz is many things, but palatable to the left is not among them.


No one on the left will vote for Rubio or Christie anyway. Why should the right cater to the left when picking candidates? Picking McCain and Romney didn't work too well for them.

Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. 
   
 
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