Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/02/27 01:25:13
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
That's an additional 881 emails bringing the GRAND total number of classified emails released so far to 1,818. Of that 22 were TOP SECRET that would obviously not be released to public.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2016/02/27 03:35:12
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
She has not broken any laws, she did not violate any rules, she did not receive a single email marked as confidential.
What she did looks shady as feth, and I think most people won't disagree with that, but it didn't break any laws or rules.
And that's why people won't care.
But I think we can also estimate that at least 10 of these 300 pages cover this exact same conversation with the same results:
whembly: they released more emails, X are classified.
everyone else: that's not how classification works
whembly: but it looks bad, optics, narrative, whatever
everyone else: *waits a few weeks*
whemblu" they release more emails, X are classified.
2016/02/27 03:47:19
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
@Sebster I really enjoy your views on the modern state of the Republican Party. I think they fall very much in line with mine, but you can elucidate them much more succinctly. The fact the largest arguments you've gotten have brought up Democrats in the first line is telling.
I lean left, but I find myself believing more in traditional Republican views; that is before they were taken over by the religious social conservatives. There was a time in America when religion (let's be honest Christianity) wasn't viewed in such a strictly right-wing paradigm. And I can definitely see that starting to change in things like gay-friendly churches or the current Pope's sayings, but I do fear it may be too little too late. I don't consider myself an atheist but most religious people would; but I recognize the need for religion, the very human need to feel loved, to matter. I've just lost hope that religious social conservatives are the answer to that need.
Also why is Sanders considered such an "outsider" like Trump? When one has been in office for decades and one has never held office once. Its a dubious comparison at best IMO.
Plus Sanders is the only candidate that has publicly said he will stop the War on Cannabis. There's 14-100 billion right there in savings. Hillary won't. Cruz obviously won't because that drug isn't sacred like ethanol. Trump might I think.
2016/02/27 04:06:34
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract,becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
(b) For purposes of this section, the provision of documents and materials to the Congress shall not constitute an offense under subsection (a).
(c) In this section, the term “classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.
But I think we can also estimate that at least 10 of these 300 pages cover this exact same conversation with the same results:
whembly: they released more emails, X are classified.
everyone else: that's not how classification works
whembly: but it looks bad, optics, narrative, whatever
everyone else: *waits a few weeks*
whemblu" they release more emails, X are classified.
Nice fairy tale there bucko, and completely wrong.
Even Obama's own ex Intelligence Director stated that Hillary should drop out of the race.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2016/02/27 04:30:11
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Either she broke the law and won't be prosecuted for it because of who she and her husband are; or she did not break the law and this is a lot of drama for nothing.
That's just the way it is in America.
2016/02/27 04:33:13
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Yes, let's give someone who doesn't give a gak about national security the nuclear codes.
I'm pretty sure I've said this repeatedly, but I really don't want her to be president. I'll hold my nose and vote for her to keep someone like Cruz out of office, but if I had a decent choice I'd vote against her.
She exemplifies some of the worst parts of the political system, and she'll get away with it as many others have. But the problem here is that her doing something wrong isn't why you and the R's keep, but rather that its her . It's the same anti-Clinton bs, but this time you actually found something wrong. It's just a shame you've lost credibility at this point. The boy who cried wolf springs to mind.
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2016/02/27 04:35:30
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: What she did looks shady as feth, and I think most people won't disagree with that, but it didn't break any laws or rules.
Even if she did, people still wouldn't care. PRISM didn't warrant much outrage in the long run. Like anyone is gonna give a gak about emails.
Actually, I have a better question; why is the government sending classified anything around via email? And we wonder how the Chinese keep managing to hack us
Actually, I have a better question; why is the government sending classified anything around via email? And we wonder how the Chinese keep managing to hack us
The Chinese need something more juicy to go with my finger prints they already hacked
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/27 05:09:36
2016/02/27 05:31:43
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
That's a red herring. The "markings" doesn't make it classified. It's the content/source/methods.
If something is not marked according to a classification standard then, for all intents and purposes, it isn't classified. One might argue that it should have been, but pretending that it was is erroneous, and the hallmark behavior of someone on a witch hunt.
(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract,becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
Is that the best you can do? Less than 1 year in prison, a fine, or some combination thereof? And that's assuming she can be proven guilty in a court of law, as opposed to the kangaroo court which you adamantly support.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2016/02/27 08:23:37
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Also why is Sanders considered such an "outsider" like Trump? When one has been in office for decades and one has never held office once. Its a dubious comparison at best IMO.
Plus Sanders is the only candidate that has publicly said he will stop the War on Cannabis. There's 14-100 billion right there in savings. Hillary won't. Cruz obviously won't because that drug isn't sacred like ethanol. Trump might I think.
Sanders, despite being nearly the epitome of "insider" is still not considered such because of his platform and campaigning.... Remember, he's promising to get money out of politics, overturn CU and McCutcheon, and he's backing that up by taking NO super PAC money whatsoever. He also falls a bit further left of the Democratic party lines, which rubs a lot of people the wrong way. He's pro Single-Payer, he wants to go after certain big business practices (I dont think he's anti-big business, I just think his views suggest that there is a certain responsibility/stewardship that isn't being met currently), He wants to "fix" college education systems/student debt.
You're right, he's also pro-Weed. As for Trump?? I dunno, he might go for legalizing, but I could really only see him doing that if he sees a way he can personally make a buck doing it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
LordofHats wrote: Actually, I have a better question; why is the government sending classified anything around via email? And we wonder how the Chinese keep managing to hack us
Without going into any real details from my time in the army with secret and higher systems, I will say this: depending on location, you can bet that about 90% of what is sent via "Secret" emails, should be on the unclassified side.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/27 08:28:58
2016/02/27 08:39:43
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Oh yeah. My dad has been MI his entire military career. He's complained, without going into details, that the military classifies things to a pointless degree.
I went to a military archive to do research once and the Allgermeine SS handbook they had a copy of was classified. At first we thought it a mere clerical error. Later learned that damn thing had been classified even before arriving at the archive, but the library had been exclusive to the US Army War college prior to their new facility was built and I just happened to be the first civilian to ask to see it
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/27 08:40:01
“I’m gonna open up our libel laws, so when they write purposely negative and horrible, false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money.
We’re going to open up those libels laws. So that when The New York Times writes a hit piece, which is a total disgrace, or when The Washington Post, which is there for other reasons, writes a hit piece, we can sue them and win money.”
...wow.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2016/02/27 13:16:22
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
jmurph wrote: Anyway, I am awaiting Trump's pick for VP. Hoping for a wrestler and a Brawndo endorsement.
Well, not only does it have what plants crave, it does position him as someone who can both fix the ecomony, and replenish our supply of french fries and burrito coverings... but can he do it in one week?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/27 13:17:20
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2016/02/27 15:07:29
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
That's a red herring. The "markings" doesn't make it classified. It's the content/source/methods.
If something is not marked according to a classification standard then, for all intents and purposes, it isn't classified. One might argue that it should have been, but pretending that it was is erroneous, and the hallmark behavior of someone on a witch hunt.
Exactly. In fact, the bigger crime here is that someone(s) must have been willfully stripping away the classification markings before sending it on, or, worse, that such material was never getting marked in the first place. The executive order requires a classification authority to review the material, determine the classification level(s) for the contents, AND determine the conditions under which the material will be declassified. Yes, there are things that should and must be classified, but until the classifying authority has done their job on it, other people can't necessarily be held accountable for not knowing what is and isn't classified. Now, while HRC can't be expected to recognize that every bit of unmarked classified material she received was supposed to be classified, she should have been able to recognize such material that fell directly within her area of responsibility (and that is one things she can and should get hit for).
You know, given recent events, this may never have been an issue if Hillary had just used an iPhone.
jmurph wrote: Anyway, I am awaiting Trump's pick for VP. Hoping for a wrestler and a Brawndo endorsement.
Well, not only does it have what plants crave, it does position him as someone who can both fix the ecomony, and replenish our supply of french fries and burrito coverings... but can he do it in one week?
One week? No, like all of the other R candidates, I expect him to do it On Day One.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2016/02/27 15:10:17
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
That's a red herring. The "markings" doesn't make it classified. It's the content/source/methods.
If something is not marked according to a classification standard then, for all intents and purposes, it isn't classified. One might argue that it should have been, but pretending that it was is erroneous, and the hallmark behavior of someone on a witch hunt.
That is incorrect, the marking themselves DO.NOT.MAKE.IT.CLASSIFIED. It's the content. It's the source. It's the method.
All electronic classified information is stored on a CLOSED NETWORK. Meaning, these networks are not physically connected to the world wide web.
In order for these classified information to appear on HRC's email server. Someone had to either access the Secured Terminal and transcribed the information or copied it (a felony itself) and re-wrote into HRC's email server w/o the headings (a different felony).
(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract,becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
Is that the best you can do? Less than 1 year in prison, a fine, or some combination thereof? And that's assuming she can be proven guilty in a court of law, as opposed to the kangaroo court which you adamantly support.
Is that the best retort you can do?
There's reports the the FBI will make a major stink out of this if DA Loretta doesn't recommend indictment. In some ways, that be just as bad as the FBI (and other IC agencies) will leak information like a sieve.
That's a red herring. The "markings" doesn't make it classified. It's the content/source/methods.
If something is not marked according to a classification standard then, for all intents and purposes, it isn't classified. One might argue that it should have been, but pretending that it was is erroneous, and the hallmark behavior of someone on a witch hunt.
Exactly. In fact, the bigger crime here is that someone(s) must have been willfully stripping away the classification markings before sending it on, or, worse, that such material was never getting marked in the first place. The executive order requires a classification authority to review the material, determine the classification level(s) for the contents, AND determine the conditions under which the material will be declassified. Yes, there are things that should and must be classified, but until the classifying authority has done their job on it, other people can't necessarily be held accountable for not knowing what is and isn't classified. Now, while HRC can't be expected to recognize that every bit of unmarked classified material she received was supposed to be classified, she should have been able to recognize such material that fell directly within her area of responsibility (and that is one things she can and should get hit for).
You know, given recent events, this may never have been an issue if Hillary had just used an iPhone.
Tanner... that presumes that HRC and her staff doesn't know how to handle classified information.
So which is it? They were too ignorant of this and thus didn't know what they were doing? (even though 'ignorance of the law isn't a defense')
Or...
They knew exactly what they were doing, and did this to keep control unwanted review of their communications.
Neither doesn't bode well for the Clintons.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/02/27 15:18:41
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2016/02/27 15:45:39
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
That's a red herring. The "markings" doesn't make it classified. It's the content/source/methods.
If something is not marked according to a classification standard then, for all intents and purposes, it isn't classified. One might argue that it should have been, but pretending that it was is erroneous, and the hallmark behavior of someone on a witch hunt.
Exactly. In fact, the bigger crime here is that someone(s) must have been willfully stripping away the classification markings before sending it on, or, worse, that such material was never getting marked in the first place. The executive order requires a classification authority to review the material, determine the classification level(s) for the contents, AND determine the conditions under which the material will be declassified. Yes, there are things that should and must be classified, but until the classifying authority has done their job on it, other people can't necessarily be held accountable for not knowing what is and isn't classified. Now, while HRC can't be expected to recognize that every bit of unmarked classified material she received was supposed to be classified, she should have been able to recognize such material that fell directly within her area of responsibility (and that is one things she can and should get hit for).
You know, given recent events, this may never have been an issue if Hillary had just used an iPhone.
Tanner... that presumes that HRC and her staff doesn't know how to handle classified information.
So which is it? They were too ignorant of this and thus didn't know what they were doing? (even though 'ignorance of the law isn't a defense')
Or...
They knew exactly what they were doing, and did this to keep control unwanted review of their communications.
Neither doesn't bode well for the Clintons.
Like I've said before, too many people, including yourself, are laser-focused on Hillary alone in all of this. The problem is much, much wider in scope, and her's may very well be the least part in it. Someone was sending her the stuff. Someone was removing the classification markings. Or someone wasn't classifying it properly in the first place. Those are the names you should be clamoring for, and it isn't necessarily "her staff" alone, either.
You keep claiming the classification markings (and lack thereof) are a "red herring" when they are, in fact, a very real problem themselves, and a symptom of the larger issue of the general mishandling of classified information at the highest levels in our government (something which, I am sure, is more widespread than you probably want to know).
edit: spoilered the quote pyramid for size.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/27 17:04:36
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2016/02/27 16:12:00
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract,becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.
Is that the best you can do? Less than 1 year in prison, a fine, or some combination thereof? And that's assuming she can be proven guilty in a court of law, as opposed to the kangaroo court which you adamantly support.
The punishment for having over a half ounce of weed in Virginia is worse than that.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2016/02/27 17:01:15
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
If You Were A Jazz Tune Running For President, What Would You Sound Like?
Presidential campaigns may inspire people to vote, but they rarely inspire people to compose music. Jazz pianist Marcus Roberts takes up the challenge on a new EP called Race for the White House, which explores the personas of four different candidates from this year's election cycle.
One of those candidates is Donald Trump; you can hear the song Roberts wrote to represent him below. It features a whistle, which he says is meant to express a particular vision of Trump.
"That symbolizes Donald just looking over his vast estate and just chilling and just having a great time," Roberts says. "And then the trumpet interrupts him just to make a bold statement of, 'I'm going to make America great again, all by myself.'"
Roberts says he was inspired by the unique personalities of the presidential hopefuls, and the challenges they face in communicating with potential voters.
"It's almost like you have to get into other people's experiences so that they can see their experience in you, and vice-versa," he says. "And I think that's a very important component of what's going on right now in America. I think everybody wants to feel like they're being understood and related to, as opposed to preached to or told what they should think."
Roberts lost his sight at age 5, so he's never actually seen these candidates. But, he says, you can learn a lot about politicians by listening to them — things you might miss just looking at them.
"If a person is nervous, they might talk a little faster — or, if they're really in command, they may project more of a louder voice," he says. "If they're really happy, they might use a higher pitch. There's a lot of information there when you hear people talk."
Roberts discussed translating those traits and tics into music with NPR's Lourdes Garcia-Navarro. Hear more of their conversation at the audio link.
The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.
-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, quoted in National Journal, November 4, 2010
We're lucky that the American right haven't wasted everyone's time with a procession of losers, last chancers and abysmal liars/no hopers whose main tactic has been to accuse him of everything from destroying the economy, to not being an American or being the actual anti-christ.
And they weren't even good at that.
So, in essence, we're left with a president who we're told over and over again is useless beyond belief in every way -- whilst simultaneously of course having the cunning and trustiness of an Sheik's Vizier.
Who the GOP was unable to beat.
Comes a point -- especially in politics -- when you've gotta stop yelling at the opposition and have a long hard look at yourself if you're not winning.
Course mirrors involve science so that's akin to witchcraft so that won't happen.
We're not winning?
Who has both the house and senate now?
Who kicked major assed during Obama's tenure in all the State govenorships and legislatures?
Yeah, doing great with those Governorships. I mean look at Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, he is just a booming success story. His state is only hemorrhaging jobs. Look at Illinois Governor Bruce Rauner, his state hasn't had a budget since July 1st and it is causing a lot of jobs built around helping those in need(Mental Health mainly) to shut down or cut back staff. (I got laid off from my job because of the State Budget)
I live in Illinois, and am really worried for State Universities. If they have no money, they shut down.
INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
2016/02/27 18:03:07
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
I live in Illinois, and am really worried for State Universities. If they have no money, they shut down.
They would stick around for a lot longer as well as need a whole lot less money, if they got rid of all the hundreds and thousands of redundant administrative positions.
2016/02/27 18:31:33
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: He also appointed someone to the Supreme Court during his final year.
Did he threaten to filibuster his predecessor's SC nomination?
Did his VP say that no SC replacement should be named in an election year?
Still trying to run with that bunk, are you?
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
