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 LordofHats wrote:
All the more reason to stop this nonsense where "marxist" and "socialist" are thrown around as veiled code words for "unAmerican" that really just serve to mud sling opponents. The whole thing is ridiculous.

I don't believe Sanders is "unAmerican".

I do believe he's sorely misguided on most of his policy ideas.

He's an avowed socialist who has tendencies to praise/support harsh regimes (ie, USSR, Cuba, and Venezuela).

Not someone who'd I want as President. But, luckily his crackpot "plans" for the country would see resistance in the House/Senate. Such that, the current gridlock would look much the same in a future Sander's Presidency. In fact, I'd go as far as he'd be a leftier version of an Obama 3rd term.

The Bernie Socialism Brand™ he's pushing is still the sucks ass kind of socialism, and I'm tired of the whole "we need to be more like Europe" arguments.

No offense to any Europeans... but, 'Murrica dances to her own tune.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
All the more reason to stop this nonsense where "marxist" and "socialist" are thrown around as veiled code words for "unAmerican" that really just serve to mud sling opponents. The whole thing is ridiculous.

Sounds exactly like what a socialist would say.

Pick up the can citizen!

Or... as Hillary Clinton said we ought to put Adults into fun day camps!
<Klaxon> Indoctrination begins on 0600 tommorrow citizen! <\Klaxon>

This election has proved beyond any others before it, how the two party system is the second greatest scam perpetuated against the American people.

The Republican party is seriously considering a brokered convention and giving the finger to their base. And the Dems are doing everything in their power to ensure Bernie can't beat Hillary.

The parties are in it for themselves and that's all they are in it for

 whembly wrote:


I do believe he's sorely misguided on most of his policy ideas.

So... you also believe that Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, JFK, etc. were also misguided?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 whembly wrote:


I do believe he's sorely misguided on most of his policy ideas.

So... you also believe that Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, JFK, etc. were also misguided?

Sorry, I don't see the comparison.

 SickSix wrote:
This election has proved beyond any others before it, how the two party system is the second greatest scam perpetuated against the American people.

The Republican party is seriously considering a brokered convention and giving the finger to their base. And the Dems are doing everything in their power to ensure Bernie can't beat Hillary.

The parties are in it for themselves and that's all they are in it for

What is the greatest?

 jmurph wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
This election has proved beyond any others before it, how the two party system is the second greatest scam perpetuated against the American people.

The Republican party is seriously considering a brokered convention and giving the finger to their base. And the Dems are doing everything in their power to ensure Bernie can't beat Hillary.

The parties are in it for themselves and that's all they are in it for

What is the greatest?

People who buy Pepsi

 whembly wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 whembly wrote:


I do believe he's sorely misguided on most of his policy ideas.

So... you also believe that Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, JFK, etc. were also misguided?

Sorry, I don't see the comparison.

Lol... Teddy's big thing: Breaking up "Trusts"... Bernie's "big thing" is breaking up the banks

FdR was all about "decent wages," healthcare for all. Bernie is all about "decent wages" and healthcare for all


I can't necessarily agree with other media articles that bring in Truman, Ike, and JFK, because I am not as familiar with their policies, but the comparison is there for them as well. Thing is, Bernie really isn't extreme at all. We've had presidents just as extreme as him (one even "necessitated" a new constitutional amendment), and they all had good results. I cant remember who it was ITT, but someone did also point out how non-extreme Sanders is, it's just that American politics is to such a circus level of ridiculousness, that he looks extreme in his sanity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 feeder wrote:

People who buy Pepsi

Lol, how so??? *I* buy pespi products pretty regularly

 whembly wrote:
He's an avowed socialist who has tendencies to praise/support harsh regimes (ie, USSR, Cuba, and Venezuela).

You keep saying that but every time I've asked you to back it up you've failed.

So maybe just stop saying it?

 jmurph wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
This election has proved beyond any others before it, how the two party system is the second greatest scam perpetuated against the American people.

The Republican party is seriously considering a brokered convention and giving the finger to their base. And the Dems are doing everything in their power to ensure Bernie can't beat Hillary.

The parties are in it for themselves and that's all they are in it for

What is the greatest?

The Federal Reserve.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 whembly wrote:
He's an avowed socialist who has tendencies to praise/support harsh regimes (ie, USSR, Cuba, and Venezuela).

You keep saying that but every time I've asked you to back it up you've failed.

So maybe just stop saying it?

Is MSNBC unbiased enough for you?
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/the-25-best-things-we-learned-bernie-sanders-book

...
18. He used to be a “Sandernista.” As mayor, Sanders attracted national attention and controversy for supporting the socialist Sandinista government in Nicaragua, which was fighting a proxy war with the United States under Ronald Reagan.

In 1985, he became the highest-ranking American official to visit Nicaragua at the time, and met with President Daniel Ortega. In his book, he called the trip “profoundly emotional” and praised Ortega. Burlington and Managua, Nicaragua’s capital, became sister cities.

19. Sanders honeymooned in the USSR. Sanders married his current wife, Jane, in May of 1988 and the next day left for their “romantic honeymoon” to Yaroslavl, in the then-Soviet Union. The trip was an official delegation from Burlington to cement the two cities’ sister-city relationship. “Trust me. It was a very strange honeymoon,” Sanders writes.

“Trust me. It was a very strange honeymoon.”
He also visited Cuba with Jane in 1989 and tried to meet with Fidel Castro, but it didn’t work out and he met with the mayor of Havana and other officials instead.
Sanders is proud of Burlington’s international diplomacy efforts. “Burlington had a foreign policy because, as progressives, we understood that we all live in one world,” he writes.
...

Maybe it's time to acknowledge that Sanders is unashamed of his leftist views that is an extreme viewpoint in the U.S?

The USSR, Cuba and Venezuela do deserve praise, though. Sanders is just a social democrat but that is indeed an extreme position in a country where it's politically correct to hate and bomb any place that doesn't unreservedly bow to capitalism.

Rosebuddy wrote:
The USSR, Cuba and Venezuela do deserve praise, though.

There's genuine praise vs. praise born from an ideological viewpoint. I believe it's the latter when we're talking about Sanders as that is his brand.

Sanders is just a social democrat but that is indeed an extreme position in a country where it's politically correct to hate and bomb any place that doesn't unreservedly bow to capitalism.

wut?

It has nothing to do with him being "unashamed of his leftist views" and more that you just believe whatever bs you're fed.

I've already run down how amazingly stupid it is to claim that he "loved the USSR" because he went there once, all of which you just ignored (as per usual). Feel free to go dig them up and give them a reread.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
It has nothing to do with him being "unashamed of his leftist views" and more that you just believe whatever bs you're fed.

I've already run down how amazingly stupid it is to claim that he "loved the USSR" because he went there once, all of which you just ignored (as per usual). Feel free to go dig them up and give them a reread.

"praised/support" is what I said.

Or maybe a better description is an "infatuation", especially over something like the Danish system.

 whembly wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
The USSR, Cuba and Venezuela do deserve praise, though.

There's genuine praise vs. praise born from an ideological viewpoint. I believe it's the latter when we're talking about Sanders as that is his brand.

Sander's political commitment seems quite genuine. If he says that he thinks something a country or organisation did was good then he probably does really believe that and doesn't say it just because his ideology demands it.

 whembly wrote:

Sanders is just a social democrat but that is indeed an extreme position in a country where it's politically correct to hate and bomb any place that doesn't unreservedly bow to capitalism.

wut?

I'm saying that the degree of leftism that Sanders represents is really quite ordinary and has its limits. You're not really seeing him planning to liquidate the wealthy as a class, for one thing. I don't think I've heard him orate about the necessity of upholding Mao, either.

Rosebuddy wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
The USSR, Cuba and Venezuela do deserve praise, though.

There's genuine praise vs. praise born from an ideological viewpoint. I believe it's the latter when we're talking about Sanders as that is his brand.

Sander's political commitment seems quite genuine. If he says that he thinks something a country or organisation did was good then he probably does really believe that and doesn't say it just because his ideology demands it.

I'll grant you that he does believe it, as he's a remarkably consistent politician.

 whembly wrote:

Sanders is just a social democrat but that is indeed an extreme position in a country where it's politically correct to hate and bomb any place that doesn't unreservedly bow to capitalism.

wut?

I'm saying that the degree of leftism that Sanders represents is really quite ordinary and has its limits. You're not really seeing him planning to liquidate the wealthy as a class, for one thing. I don't think I've heard him orate about the necessity of upholding Mao, either.

With respect to American Politics... he's way over to the left:

 whembly wrote:

No offense to any Europeans... but, 'Murrica dances to her own tune.

The Can Can? Possibly The Sailor's Hornpipe? Any other song that properly illustrates how certain elements of the US populace use arrogance to mask insecurity?

We would rather crash and burn the American Way(tm) than dare do something that works for the rest of the world.

 d-usa wrote:
We would rather crash and burn the American Way(tm) than dare do something that works for the rest of the world.

Which is funny, considering the Constitution is grounded in European thought.

 whembly wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
It has nothing to do with him being "unashamed of his leftist views" and more that you just believe whatever bs you're fed.

I've already run down how amazingly stupid it is to claim that he "loved the USSR" because he went there once, all of which you just ignored (as per usual). Feel free to go dig them up and give them a reread.

"praised/support" is what I said.

Or maybe a better description is an "infatuation", especially over something like the Danish system.

Again, simply going somewhere doesn't mean you praise/support/are infatuated with said place. Also, the last time you brought this up I showed you in no uncertain terms how stupid it was and you just the usual Whembly thing and ignored it until you were distracted by a new shiny.

I went to Greece for my 30th birthday during their financial crisis, does that mean I support the fact that their government lied about their debt levels?

So, apparently in New York today just under 55,000 voters in Brooklyn are S.O.L. should they desire to vote.

http://nypost.com/2016/04/19/54000-brooklyn-voters-vanish-ahead-of-primary-day/

Here is the money quote:

Voters on the inactive list can still cast a ballot if they live in the city.

But the “missing” voters are out of luck — their names have been stricken from the records.

That's right, administrative error in liberal New York City has deprived nearly 55,000 voters of their civil right. Where is the outrage? Where are the people rioting in the streets? Where is the youtube segment by John Oliver? Most importantly of all, why is the idea that feckless city officials not doing their job = an acceptable excuse for depriving voters of their right to vote?

Because of retirements and staff illness, the voting list was not properly maintained in Brooklyn for six to eight months.

Seriously?

Where has anyone proposed that it is acceptable? Cause it doesn't seem acceptable. I spoke to this exact point pages ago. If we're concerned about voting errors, we'd do better to focus on rolls and the potential for clerical mistakes, cause at 55k Brooklyn just blew voter fraud out of the water as a statistic. Maybe all this time spent on voter ID could have been better spent making sure the rolls were properly maintained

 LordofHats wrote:
Where has anyone proposed that it is acceptable? Cause it doesn't seem acceptable. I spoke to this exact point pages ago. If we're concerned about voting errors, we'd do better to focus on rolls and the potential for clerical mistakes, cause at 55k Brooklyn just blew voter fraud out of the water as a statistic. Maybe all this time spent on voter ID could have been better spent making sure the rolls were properly maintained

Voter ID isn't an issue up for debate in New York politics so they really don't have any excuse, do they?

It's been on the local radio, it's one of the things mentioned when I was talking about a discussions of how badly our election system is here.

Apparently the Comptroller is going to audit the election.

http://observer.com/2016/04/comptroller-will-audit-new-york-city-board-of-elections/

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
It has nothing to do with him being "unashamed of his leftist views" and more that you just believe whatever bs you're fed.

I've already run down how amazingly stupid it is to claim that he "loved the USSR" because he went there once, all of which you just ignored (as per usual). Feel free to go dig them up and give them a reread.

"praised/support" is what I said.

Or maybe a better description is an "infatuation", especially over something like the Danish system.

Again, simply going somewhere doesn't mean you praise/support/are infatuated with said place. Also, the last time you brought this up I showed you in no uncertain terms how stupid it was and you just the usual Whembly thing and ignored it until you were distracted by a new shiny.

Sure, if you want to ignore his patterns... but, go ahead and spin away. I mean, he still won't disavow his 1985 praise of Castro.

I went to Greece for my 30th birthday during their financial crisis, does that mean I support the fact that their government lied about their debt levels?

Did you setup a sister city in the USSR as the mayor of Burlington, Vt.? Did you also travel to Nicaragua to praise the rise of Marxist-Leninist Sandinista government, while calling it a “heroic revolution.” Are you calling for a revolution in America?

If not, then no... that's asinine to assume you support the Greek government by simply visiting that country.

So please, stop trying to whitewash Sander's past.

He seems like a nice guy... but a misguided nice guy.

Reminds me of the current President a bit.

Having a sister city in the USSR has what terrible effect then? Many cities, all over the world, are twinned with other cities. Some of those would be cities in the USSR, or other eastern bloc countries.

And were the Sandinistas worse than the government that they deposed? Certainly not when it came to educating the people of Nicaragua or providing healthcare. Were the Sandinistas worse, in any way, than the Contras which the US government was supporting at the time that Sanders visited the country?

Was the Cuban revolutionary government worse than Batista? Again, not when it came to providing education and healthcare.

It is possible to praise the actions of somebody without having to approve of everything they do. To Godwin it, Hitler built great roads, no denying it. Me saying that doesn't mean I support Hitler.

Also, from actually watching the video, he doesn't "heap praise onto Castro" as some people are putting it. He says, quite rightly, that expecting a mass uprising against the man who had brought free education and healthcare to the majority of the Cuban people because the US sent over some armed dissidents was absolutely idiotic and that the Reagan administration made the same mistake with the Contras in Nicaragua.

He did praise the apparent sincerity of the Sandinista leaders. And he has a point. Most people will not endure years of hardship and fighting for a political belief they do not truly believe in. And apparently the Nicaraguans agree, considering that in their most recent elections they voted for the Sandinistas.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Having a sister city in the USSR has what terrible effect then? Many cities, all over the world, are twinned with other cities. Some of those would be cities in the USSR, or other eastern bloc countries.

And were the Sandinistas worse than the government that they deposed? Certainly not when it came to educating the people of Nicaragua or providing healthcare. Were the Sandinistas worse, in any way, than the Contras which the US government was supporting at the time that Sanders visited the country?

Was the Cuban revolutionary government worse than Batista? Again, not when it came to providing education and healthcare.

It is possible to praise the actions of somebody without having to approve of everything they do. To Godwin it, Hitler built great roads, no denying it. Me saying that doesn't mean I support Hitler.

So the end justifies the means then... eh?

As long as the roads are built and the train runs on time... we can't ever criticize the political environment?

¡Viva la Revolución!

*shrugs*

I'd argue that ideologically, we don't want to be a socialist like those in Latin America or even the scandinavian countries.

Speaking of that... here's a good read from an actual Denmark Socialist Democrat:
I’m a democratic socialist from Denmark. Here’s what Bernie Sanders gets wrong.

We covered that article back in February, especially how Sanders doesn't say a lot of things that the author thinks he says.

Let's make sure we aren't just quoting someone then wildly mis-attributing their points to better serve your own purposes. An honest mistake is ok, that is borderline "ftfy"-ing their post. Thanks.