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 Sean_OBrien wrote:
So, if you get $3000 worth of stuff from GW and sell it for $2000 - you still pay the tax on the $3000.

You mean you have to pay tax upon receiving the prize? As the prize is GW goods, they could value it at cost rather than retail - there is no dollar figure attached to the prize, just quantity.

 notprop wrote:
Sheesh!

5 pages on a prize give away that encompasses legal technicalities and the true height of a Space Marine......and allot of comments from the usual people that will "OMG haven't bought GW for XX years before it was cool".

You fellers make my head hurt.

Shouldn't this whole thread be transplanted to the First World Problems thread in OTT?

FWIW. I buy GW product. I would also think that a company that does business in multiple countries would be familiar with the laws of doing business in those countries...other than for the Chairman to make fun of the laws in the company financial reports. Unless of course this contest is really just for UK residents. For a company that expects the world to observe some self-defined version of IP law, GW seems more than happy to flout the laws of the land in the US and Canada when it comes to their little contest.

What do i know, i apparently live in a country where the laws were created to stop pig thievery (never did understand that commebt).

 agnosto wrote:

What do i know, i apparently live in a country where the laws were created to stop pig thievery (never did understand that commebt).

My take on it is that the use of language must have evolved, and pig thievery must have meant thieving pigs. Things make alot more sense to me this way.

I have bad news for everyone in the US:

Countries: Worldwide excluding the States and Territories of Australia and New Zealand.

I don't think we need to worry about US law as the states are out of the scope for this contest.

 agnosto wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Sheesh!

5 pages on a prize give away that encompasses legal technicalities and the true height of a Space Marine......and allot of comments from the usual people that will "OMG haven't bought GW for XX years before it was cool".

You fellers make my head hurt.

Shouldn't this whole thread be transplanted to the First World Problems thread in OTT?

What do i know, i apparently live in a country where the laws were created to stop pig thievery (never did understand that commebt).

I think KT had just watched the Hatfield and McCoy show with Kevin Costner. And I mean that literally. I think that's where his idea for the metaphor came from.

In any case, he was making a comment about how intellectual property is property, but that because it is in many ways intangible, laws that were designed to protect tangible assets are not suited to providing proper protection for intellectual property.

He's rather wrong, of course. What he really meant was that there are no laws to protect someone's opinion that they were the first to think up an idea, or that protect a business on the basis that it has been around for a long time. That's very true. The laws only protect something that has actually been created, and they measure such creation against everything else already in existence. It would be like Kirby complaining that the laws did not protect his imaginary horse ranch.

'If wishes were horses, I'd have a ranch.'

badkamer1 wrote:
I have bad news for everyone in the US:

Countries: Worldwide excluding the States and Territories of Australia and New Zealand.

I don't think we need to worry about US law as the states are out of the scope for this contest.

As has been mentioned, "The States and Territories of Australia and New Zealand" has nothing to do with the United States. Australia has States.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
As for those 'specially marked cans' - look at the fine print on those specially marked cans, which include an address to send off to for a free entry, since requiring you to make a purchase is against the law.... *EDIT* Even McDonald's has that in the fine print.

I don't usually do this but...

*ahem*

[Citation Needed]

Here, have a Wikipedia article.

I want to see this fine print (or an example of it from a similar competition) where purchasing a speciall marked [whatever] is somehow not mandatory?

Here, have an Online example.

 agnosto wrote:
Which is technically what they have to do in the US; this sort of this sort of thing is only legal in a handful of states in the US to begin which is why American retailers all have "no purchase necessary, void where prohibited by law" at the start of all of their fine print. Let's use McDonalds as an example; every year they trot out Monopoly and you get free pieces when you buy stuff BUT if you read the contest rules, there's also an ability to enter by mail for free (postage cost is not charged by the retailer and the law doesn't require the retailer to shoulder the expense of your entry, just make the avenue available).

How do you play the Monopoly game without the pieces?

Some people do it enthuiastically without the pieces.

Technically the contest is a Sweepstakes - requiring a purchase makes it a Lottery, which has very different laws pertaining.

States can get away with having Lotteries - because they make the rules. Most states have laws preventing Lotteries run by anybody that isn't the state.

The commissions have even been known to get involved in school raffles.

It is pretty definite that GW is breaking the law here - not only requiring a purchase, but requiring a minimum purchase.

I do not think GW put any effort into looking at the legalities.

Because they are GW.

The Auld Grump

Who says all space marines are the same height?

Clearly the picture displays Brother Verticallychallengus, a Squat who was taken into the Space Wolves chapter by mistake.

Great Wolf Logan Grimnar has been approached for a comment:
'If it has a beard, it's in.'

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I've always thought something like 7'-8'. Otherwise they would be so big as to not be useful.

Don't worry - you're still right!

 Alpharius wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I've always thought something like 7'-8'. Otherwise they would be so big as to not be useful.

Don't worry - you're still right!

Space Marines are anything your heart and imagination make them up to be!!

Plus what pretty much all the fiction and background says in the last 20 years, give or take.

 Accolade wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I've always thought something like 7'-8'. Otherwise they would be so big as to not be useful.

Don't worry - you're still right!

Space Marines are anything your heart and imagination make them up to be!!

Unlass you name them Spots - then GW will slap you with a DMCA....

The Auld Grump

WOW. GW finally listens and does something nice for gamers.... and we still complain!

You know, the worst you can do is do what you already been doing, not buy direct from GW.

and if you live in USA I won't worry too much about the loopholes and the tax, chances are your governement won't care enough to tax you or ban GW from giving you the prize.

In Canada the price of entry is $80. If I'm ever buying GW products I can afford to pay the 20% discount with is about $16+ tax, for a chance at prizes I'm interested in. Its a shame from what I'm hearing no one here is willing to spend that extra 20% of the minimun entry fee.

wufai wrote:
WOW. GW finally listens and does something nice for gamers.... and we still complain!

You know, the worst you can do is do what you already been doing, not buy direct from GW.

and if you live in USA I won't worry too much about the loopholes and the tax, chances are your governement won't care enough to tax you or ban GW from giving you the prize.

In Canada the price of entry is $80. If I'm ever buying GW products I can afford to pay the 20% discount with is about $16+ tax, for a chance at prizes I'm interested in. Its a shame from what I'm hearing no one here is willing to spend that extra 20% of the minimun entry fee.

The biggest two complaints are (a) that the Space Marine height seems out-of-whack, which is more of a lore complaint since Space Marines get represented all over the spectrum and (b) that Australia and New Zealand, the dirty prison colonies that they are, are excluded from entering.

One of those I think is just a joke and really has nothing to do with the competition, but is a really controversial topic with diehard 40k fans (same as any diehard groups, and hey, we're on a website with a significant dedication to 40k) since people have such different opinions on the matter (right up there with the Knight titan thing) and the other is quite legitimate complaint from countries who seem to just get the business end of GW's dealings constantly.

I wouldn't decry this as Tom Kirby offering disgruntled fans cookies and the fans throwing them back in his face, it's more like he offers cookies to everyone except that one group of kids he irrationally hates, and the rest of the people are talking about flavors of chocolate.

wufai wrote:
WOW. GW finally listens and does something nice for gamers.... and we still complain!

Reading isn't your strong suit, is it?

Otherwise, you'd find the complaints are almost entirely unrelated to the competition itself, or incredibly valid complaints about two countries not being able to participate.

But its probably easier to be edgy and make a post decrying how GW can't win, and we're all entitled brats.

Anyways, the competition is cool. Seven feet of merchandise is nothing to sneeze at. If my 40k army used any GW models I still need, it might have motivated me to buy something, but I'm not inclined to spend money on them, and I frankly wouldn't know what to do with that many GW kits.

Now, if it was FW on the other hand...

 Accolade wrote:

wufai wrote:
WOW. GW finally listens and does something nice for gamers.... and we still complain!

You know, the worst you can do is do what you already been doing, not buy direct from GW.

and if you live in USA I won't worry too much about the loopholes and the tax, chances are your governement won't care enough to tax you or ban GW from giving you the prize.

In Canada the price of entry is $80. If I'm ever buying GW products I can afford to pay the 20% discount with is about $16+ tax, for a chance at prizes I'm interested in. Its a shame from what I'm hearing no one here is willing to spend that extra 20% of the minimun entry fee.

The biggest two complaints are (a) that the Space Marine height seems out-of-whack, which is more of a lore complaint since Space Marines get represented all over the spectrum and (b) that Australia and New Zealand, the dirty prison colonies that they are, are excluded from entering.

One of those I think is just a joke and really has nothing to do with the competition, but is a really controversial topic with diehard 40k fans (same as any diehard groups, and hey, we're on a website with a significant dedication to 40k) since people have such different opinions on the matter (right up there with the Knight titan thing) and the other is quite legitimate complaint from countries who seem to just get the business end of GW's dealings constantly.

I wouldn't decry this as Tom Kirby offering disgruntled fans cookies and the fans throwing them back in his face, it's more like he offers cookies to everyone except that one group of kids he irrationally hates, and the rest of the people are talking about flavors of chocolate.

Or whether Tom Kirby, dressed as a Girl Scout, is allowed to be selling those cookies....

I am really surprised that GW did not catch the legal problems - I have a weird feeling that this contest was rushed through by the folks running the webstore, in the wake of the half year net earnings.

The contest is a good thing - I will not argue that. It means that GW has started promoting sales.

The fact that they have broken the law while doing that promotion... is less admirable.

It is something that anyone with a basic MBA should have caught.

And that is worrying.

The Auld Grump


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blacksails wrote:

wufai wrote:
WOW. GW finally listens and does something nice for gamers.... and we still complain!

Now, if it was FW on the other hand...

Yeesh! Now that is a contest that I would enter!

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

wufai wrote:
WOW. GW finally listens and does something nice for gamers.... and we still complain!

Now, if it was FW on the other hand...

Yeesh! Now that is a contest that I would enter!

The Auld Grump

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with this competition (weird geographic restrictions aside) or any other conventional, or otherwise, promotional activity GW wishes to undertake, as a 40K player, the hardest problem for me to solve is a lack of interest in the game, so ultimately, for all their faults, a successful GW is better than an ailing one, so if this helps interest in them and their product, so be it.

With that said however, how on earth is running a competition explicitly designed to require you to pay a premium over the price their product can be bought for in exchange for a tiny chance of winning something whose perceived value is far in excess of its actual cost "doing something nice for gamers?"

This is doing something to make money for GW, and any thoughts of it as some sort of benevolent action by them is way wide of the mark.

 Alpharius wrote:
Once again GW shows they don't even know their own Fluff!

Space Marine height is a number that has varied throughout the fluff a whole lot. At least according to most of the people I talk to. All of the references I've checked puts them at 7 feet tall. But then, I don't read the novels (and in the old White Dwarf #300, GW stated that those are clearly exaggerated for drama's sake, and don't accurately portray their setting... thanks GW).

In this instance, they're about 6'10" We can start talking about how he's a little short for a space marine.

I honestly prefer the marines that aren't ten feet tall, but that might be because I can never find the references that make them crazy tall like that.

I guess a degree of variety is perfectly reasonable, I mean, I'm a foot or so taller than some of my friends, so surely it stands to reason I'd make a much taller Space Marine than them.

But the competition "Space Marine" is barely out of the range of what you could see walking along a busy city street on any given day.

Of course if this is illegal in some US states then it is easily resolved.

[The GW tombola spins and the DrawMaster pulls out a ticket for Cleatus B Hickmeister of Bumpkinville, North South Alakerkivania, USof A]

RE-DRAW!

[Kirbs] "Just keep going until you draw someone close, I only found a fiver in the sofa to cover P&P!"

"Oh, and I don't want to get caught out on some obscure possibly non existent US law that may or may not be applicable cos the tiniternet kiljoys said so. Yeah I', really concerned about that too!"

Seriously the more i see that nonsense pitched the more important the non issue of Space Marine altitude becomes.

Oh, that's right. US competitions always say "No purchase necessary." That always means that you could send them a letter, or sign up online instead of buying the soda and enter the competition.

I wonder if there's a way to do that here.

Man, the literal-mindedness of geeks. It's crucial that we determine exactly how big Space Marines are. And this needs to be strictly followed in all matters, even a promotion that's just trying to be cute. Otherwise our immersion will be ruined.

Anyway, I think it's a fine promo they've got here. Like the Space Marine Captains one before it'll probably get me to pull the trigger on ordering some stuff I've been meaning to. I don't really see anyone placing an order just for the chance to win this, but even if. I'm not gonna lecture people on how to spend their money on miniatures.

 Fabio Bile wrote:
Man, the literal-mindedness of geeks. It's crucial that we determine exactly how big Space Marines are. And this needs to be strictly followed in all matters, even a promotion that's just trying to be cute. Otherwise our immersion will be ruined.

That...that's not what people are saying...

 odinsgrandson wrote:

Space Marine height is a number that has varied throughout the fluff a whole lot. At least according to most of the people I talk to. All of the references I've checked puts them at 7 feet tall. But then, I don't read the novels (and in the old White Dwarf #300, GW stated that those are clearly exaggerated for drama's sake, and don't accurately portray their setting... thanks GW).

Design studio has been really consistent over the years about the marines being roughly seven feet tall. Larger numbers come come from few vague BL references, and from number of fans who for some reason really, really want the marines to be gigantic.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Fabio Bile wrote:
Man, the literal-mindedness of geeks. It's crucial that we determine exactly how big Space Marines are. And this needs to be strictly followed in all matters, even a promotion that's just trying to be cute. Otherwise our immersion will be ruined.

That...that's not what people are saying...

Yes, but why pass up the opportunity to be derogatory to large groups of people without paying attention to what they're saying? Isn't that the basis of our societal systems?

It would be a shame if the competition turns out be illegal everywhere.but the 'no purchase necessary' does appear to exist in the UK.

I know whenever I try the comps on This Morning or breakfast TV I do it via the free ITV.com option rather than pay for the text/ phone call.

Then again, I'm a West Country/ Scot hybrid so have six fingers to be tightfisted with.

On a plus point, if it does get canned in the US, when the Louisiana Attorney General pulls his finger out, do we get a better chance of winning on our side of the pond?

 Crimson wrote:

 odinsgrandson wrote:

Space Marine height is a number that has varied throughout the fluff a whole lot. At least according to most of the people I talk to. All of the references I've checked puts them at 7 feet tall. But then, I don't read the novels (and in the old White Dwarf #300, GW stated that those are clearly exaggerated for drama's sake, and don't accurately portray their setting... thanks GW).

Design studio has been really consistent over the years about the marines being roughly seven feet tall. Larger numbers come come from few vague BL references, and from number of fans who for some reason really, really want the marines to be gigantic.

Anybody that thinks that seven feet tall isn't gigantic never met my great grandfather

He was 6'11" in a family that averages 5'8".... and at 5'9" I am more than a foot taller than my girlfriend. (Who is tiny.)

He had to leave Ireland... suddenly. The bad thing about being that tall is that the police can recognize you pretty easily.

The Auld Grump - he was always sad that he missed out on the Easter Rebellion....

I expect that if the contest does violate various U.S. state laws, it will simply be a matter of paying hefty fines and altering the contest terms.

It is far from the end of the world.

I don't have any problem with GW running a contest, but a company that declares ownership of 'grenade launcher' had better mind its legal P's and Q's. If GW wants to keep trundling through life throwing its weight around with an incompetent legal team, its gonna pay the piper.

And in this economic climate, I expect the state of Louisiana wouldn't mind a fast 20K.