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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/03 08:54:46
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Oberron wrote:Hmmm I wanna try a new game type now WIP name "London Fog"
no? terrain on the table but night fighting is always in effect and nothing has LOS past 24"
Everything has shrouded if someone brings a fog machine.
thoughts/ improvements?
Let me guess, you play Necron right ?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/03 10:32:53
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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Oberron wrote:Hmmm I wanna try a new game type now WIP name "London Fog"
no? terrain on the table but night fighting is always in effect and nothing has LOS past 24"
Everything has shrouded if someone brings a fog machine.
thoughts/ improvements?
There is actually some neat potential here. One addition I would make is to use the 'blip' rules from FW's Zone Mortalis. Quite simply, instead of placing units you place small markers for each squad, noting down which is which. The squad are only revealed once the enemy can draw LoS to them, and should there be a point where the enemy can't see them, they revert to blip status. You'd need some terrrain at least, and maybe drop LOS to 18", but there's something to be done with this.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/03 11:29:24
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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kingbobbito wrote:The past few games I've had people ask me not to use certain pieces of terrain, one going so far as to say he won't play me if "I'm going to be that way".
Don't play him. You don't need that negativity in your life.
. I went to place it up against the edge of the table (so that it wouldn't take up the entire center of the table, but got a complaint about it.
It was your turn to pick terrain.. start picking his terrain and telling him where it goes.
I was again accused of "blocking all LOS".
Because GUNS EXIST IN THIS GAME. He can suck it up.
They also complained that I was placing objectives "where no one can see them"
Does someone actually have a problem with this? Rage quit and flip their armies(not the table). Do they want all your objectives out in the open, also with no blocking line of sight, so they can vaporize you?
I know it's not coincidence that one was Tau,
See: VAPORIZE
Your friends suck. Just tell them they win, pack your army and find decent people. Automatically Appended Next Post: I have a simple solution I've recommended at least once on here to deal with people who must win at all costs...
Put your army out, all of them, on the edge of your deployment zone. Turn 1, move them all straight forward, then run them in shooting. Turn 2, repeat turn 1 exactly. Turn 3, run PAST their units towards their table edge. Turn 4, turn tap their edge. Run back towards yours. Turn 5, run your remaining units PAST his again, towards your own table edge. Roll to continue game. If you do, you know what to do with any remaining units.
Look him in the eye as you pack up your army, and ask "Are you having fun?"
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/03 11:33:46
DR:80-S++G+M-B---I+Pw40k#10++D+A++++/cWD-R+++T(T)DM+
(Grey Knights 4500+) (Eldar 4000+ Pts) (Tyranids 3000 Pts) (Tau 3000 Pts) (Imperial Guard 3500 Pts) (Doom Eagles 3000 Pts) (Orks 3000+ Pts) (Necrons 2500 Pts) (Daemons 2000) (Sisters of Battle 2000) (2 Imperial Knights) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/03 12:26:36
Subject: Re:Cover is "Too Big"?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Keep in mind that LoS blocking terrain is going to block movement too. So if you put down too much then you will end up with a maze of 3" wide chokepoints everywhere. Also, keep some cookies in your gaming club for the first player who starts abusing terrain with ridiculous stuff like the 72" long impassable wall or the 13" tall firing platform.
Also, don't forget that terrain won't solve a lot in terms of shooting, only make mid-range shooting better than the long-range version. A Tau Battlesuit army will shoot the living sh*t out of you and remain untouchable because of the JSJ. On the other hand, infantry lists will suffer because their already limited maneuverability will be restricted even more.
So, yeah, overall, don't put much faith into terrain. It is a double-edged sword.
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My armies:
14000 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/03 13:03:51
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Flashy Flashgitz
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Oberron wrote:Hmmm I wanna try a new game type now WIP name "London Fog"
no? terrain on the table but night fighting is always in effect and nothing has LOS past 24"
Everything has shrouded if someone brings a fog machine.
thoughts/ improvements?
there are rules for a gas cloud world in IA12 which do basically what you said and then more.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/03 13:10:29
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?
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Pyeatt wrote:
Put your army out, all of them, on the edge of your deployment zone. Turn 1, move them all straight forward, then run them in shooting. Turn 2, repeat turn 1 exactly. Turn 3, run PAST their units towards their table edge. Turn 4, turn tap their edge. Run back towards yours. Turn 5, run your remaining units PAST his again, towards your own table edge. Roll to continue game. If you do, you know what to do with any remaining units.
Look him in the eye as you pack up your army, and ask "Are you having fun?"
You know what? If both players agreed to it, this could be very amusing. Game plays for 7 turns, at the end of that you get 1VP for each unit that touched their edge, 2 VP for each unit that got back to your edge. Throws up a lot of choice between shooting or running, MSU or larger, more durable units, and plenty of scope for movement shenannigans.
Actually, Deadzone can go a bit like this if both players draw an Infiltrate objective. Both sides run straight forward, the odd shot is exchanged, then it's a mad dash to get the hell out of dodge!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 05:48:10
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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Lol nah that would just be silly. a dice rolling run competition
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/04 05:49:19
DR:80-S++G+M-B---I+Pw40k#10++D+A++++/cWD-R+++T(T)DM+
(Grey Knights 4500+) (Eldar 4000+ Pts) (Tyranids 3000 Pts) (Tau 3000 Pts) (Imperial Guard 3500 Pts) (Doom Eagles 3000 Pts) (Orks 3000+ Pts) (Necrons 2500 Pts) (Daemons 2000) (Sisters of Battle 2000) (2 Imperial Knights) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 06:45:08
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine
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Terrain is underutilized if anything and your fine so long as the table doesn't look line a great wall of china on one side and a barren plain on the other side. Especially now that tactical objectives make the game not about clearing the table of foes. I think the best games, when they're over, usually have almost all squads still on the table but with serious casualties sustained and a bunch of vehicle wreckage smoking as you have to tally up your objective cards to see who won... but hey that's just me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 06:56:04
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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The only time I have seen someone be TFG with placing too much terrain was a tyranid player who tried to cover the entire field in forests and large extended ruins. It was only after the game that I realized terrain has to be 3" apart from each other. But he was just laying forests down side by side and taking advantage of the Thropes +cover saves on his swarm.
Other than that, I favor lots of terrain and think it makes things more interesting.
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DR:80+S++G++MB--IPw40k12#+D++++A++/fWD013R++T(T)DM+
"War is the greatest act of worship, and I perform it gladly for my Lord.... Praise Be"
-Invictus Potens, Black Templar Dreadnought |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 08:20:46
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Hallowed Canoness
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A jungle board would be awesome to play across.
That said, I made the mistake of playing on a 100% forest board once with my Wood Elves. It was only after we started that I remembered that while we can move through forests perfectly fine, we still can't shoot through them. :(
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 13:01:48
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Irked Necron Immortal
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I prefer my tables to have at least three big LoS blockers in the middle with plenty of smaller pieces to set units and objectives in the deployment zones. It hurts long range artillery, but I think battles decided by long range alone aren't very exciting.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 13:05:53
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Gunlines like LOS, anything not against GL which is not GL doesn't like open LOS.
IMO, there should be areas where the firing lanes are split by terrain. Maybe 1 piece tall enough to cover a tyrant (So a ruins) and a few much shorter which offer cover much more dependent on location of models in relation to it. When setting up though there are times when terrain is mostly placed behind or to the sides.
Put it this way,, having no LOS blocking terrain in the middle the opposite is having a complete LOS blocking wall strait down the middle. No reason one should be deemed fair when the other isn't.
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It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.
Tactical objectives are fantastic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/04 13:30:08
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Nem wrote:Gunlines like LOS, anything not against GL which is not GL doesn't like open LOS.
IMO, there should be areas where the firing lanes are split by terrain. Maybe 1 piece tall enough to cover a tyrant (So a ruins) and a few much shorter which offer cover much more dependent on location of models in relation to it. When setting up though there are times when terrain is mostly placed behind or to the sides.
Put it this way,, having no LOS blocking terrain in the middle the opposite is having a complete LOS blocking wall strait down the middle. No reason one should be deemed fair when the other isn't.
I think low terrain is rather wrong in 40K.
It's really ridiculous when you have buildings and all that do not provide LoS blocking for even a Tank.
I mean, my house is probably 6 meters high, and it would hide anything except maybe the tip of a Monolith.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/05 19:34:44
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Gargantuan Grotesque With Gnarskin
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If you can't win without planting your opponent at the wrong end of a firing range you don't deserve to win.
Oddly enough, my friends never complain that I'm the only one who sets up the battlefield (I own the table and host so I set up before hand to save time). I guess I build well balanced and fun/fluffy sets and never really consider how my army is going to fare on a specific field.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/06 02:41:44
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Paradigm wrote:Martel732 wrote:The distinction between terrain and LOS-blocking terrain is pretty big. I typically plan on 40-60% terrain, but virtually none blocks LOS.
This could be whhy you find your Marines die so fast, as you have said elsewhere. I say any board needs 3-4 6" square LoS-blockers MINIMUM to provide an interesting game, preferably more.
}
That's not codified, so I don't have a lot of leverage in this area. I'm stuck taking fire the whole game with no respites. Automatically Appended Next Post: Nem wrote:Gunlines like LOS, anything not against GL which is not GL doesn't like open LOS.
IMO, there should be areas where the firing lanes are split by terrain. Maybe 1 piece tall enough to cover a tyrant (So a ruins) and a few much shorter which offer cover much more dependent on location of models in relation to it. When setting up though there are times when terrain is mostly placed behind or to the sides.
Put it this way,, having no LOS blocking terrain in the middle the opposite is having a complete LOS blocking wall strait down the middle. No reason one should be deemed fair when the other isn't.
Except they can say, "Look at all the cover you have!"
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/06 02:42:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/06 16:17:13
Subject: Cover is "Too Big"?
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Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh
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I've heard the complaint that 40k is often played on boards which should be Fantasy and vice versa.
My group getting together agreed early on that we wanted to fight over strategic positions and more real-world style objectives. We have some 3 story buildings in the works as well as some store bought ruins which are all 2 story. Automatically Appended Next Post: Paradigm wrote:Oberron wrote:Hmmm I wanna try a new game type now WIP name "London Fog"
no? terrain on the table but night fighting is always in effect and nothing has LOS past 24"
Everything has shrouded if someone brings a fog machine.
thoughts/ improvements?
There is actually some neat potential here. One addition I would make is to use the 'blip' rules from FW's Zone Mortalis. Quite simply, instead of placing units you place small markers for each squad, noting down which is which. The squad are only revealed once the enemy can draw LoS to them, and should there be a point where the enemy can't see them, they revert to blip status. You'd need some terrrain at least, and maybe drop LOS to 18", but there's something to be done with this.
I've always wanted to do "Fog of War" with two tables set up exactly the same and one or two refs. No opposing models on your table unless you can actually see them.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/06 16:45:52
AlmightyWalrus wrote:This line of reasoning broke 7th edition in Fantasy. The books should be as equal as possible, even a theoretical "Codex: Squirrels with Crustacean allies" should have a fair chance to beat "Codex: God".
Redbeard wrote:
- Cost? FW models cost more? Because Thudd guns are more expensive than Wraithknights and Riptides. Nope, not a good argument. This is an expensive game. We play it knowing that, and also knowing that, realistically, it's cheaper than hookers and blow. |
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