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Playing in RiF3 tonight. What a scenario! There is absolutely no reason to go for the worm hole. You might as well duke it out in "normal space", aka, half the board.

With that being said, I expect at least one player with Romulans and Cloaked mines, three players with Klingons (4-5 ship builds with all the attack dice!), couple Fed players, including one that will scour the interwebz looking for the best list to take in this OP- and find out it's all about the mines, and probably a couple Borg players with... you guessed it! Mines.

So what's a good anti-mine list?

I'm looking at:

Geordi La Forge (from Sovereign/Enterprise E) to reduce attack dice and flip over cloak tokens
Navigational Deflector, to give me defense dice against those pesky Cloaked Mines
Fed Enhanced Hull Plating, even though it's been nerfed, can still come in handy
Capt. Gul Damar from Dominion for the -2 attack dice from mines

After that, I have no idea. Maybe Advanced Shields and Improved Shields?

More detailed report later, but the mines turned out to be a thing. My first opponent had 11 mines on his build sheet, and I watched one game where the "Normal Space" was covered with mine tokens- 16 of them when their game finished. Anyways. My first game, I saw all the mines, and said " it! I'm going for the wormhole."

In 3 games, I made it through the wormhole and blew it up 3 times. I lost all 3 games of course. However, I was the only player to "play the scenario" and get my ship not only through the Wormhole, but blow it up. The TO and all the players agreed that I should get the Assimilated Galor prize ship.

RiF 3 is just a stupid, nasty, worst scenario Wiz Kids has put out yet.

Well played mate. I don't know anyone who has a kind word for that tosh, but it does seem as if they're starting to listen (ever the optimist, me )

-Tamwulf

Well played. If I saw 11 cloakes mines I would have probably done the same thing. 11 mines WTF was their list The most I have ever flown has been 3 and I feel like a d-bag when I do that. I have heard that D&D AW doesn't allow you to put duplicates of any 1 upgrade on your creatures, if thry ever make a STAW 2.0, I could go along with that.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
-Tamwulf

Well played. If I saw 11 cloakes mines I would have probably done the same thing. 11 mines WTF was their list The most I have ever flown has been 3 and I feel like a d-bag when I do that. I have heard that D&D AW doesn't allow you to put duplicates of any 1 upgrade on your creatures, if thry ever make a STAW 2.0, I could go along with that.

That first opponent- it was insane! He used Quark, and under Quark was... Mines. Then he had 4 copies of a card that allowed him to place upgrades underneath them face down as long as they were less then 5 points. Well, he had the fleet captain card that made all weapons cost (-1 SP). He had a total of 4 cloaked mines and 7 anti-mater mines. It was stupid, and I told him so, but he seemed to be very proud of the fact that he was able to pull it off.

Incidentally, the overall winner had a 90 point Borg Tactical cube loaded up with Multi Kinetic Neutronic Mines and he basically placed two of them in front of his cube, and would then just run over them back and forth until his opponent was dead. There was a 90 point Romulan Scimitar build that tried the same thing (thanks a lot Borg Alliance!), but he was rocking multiple Interphase Generators and Enhanced Hull Plating. Well, after the Borg player ran over his mines twice while the Scimitar was cloaked, and the Scimitar ran over one of the mines and hit cloaked mines as well...

Some of these builds really, really capitalized on some grey areas and there were more then one case of Shenanigans. For example, a Borg Scout Cube only had one hull point left. His maneuver took him over a anti-matter mine token, and after he moved, he said "I'm performing the Regenerate action" to get a hull point back, THEN he rolled the mine damage dice. That was an argument that he would not budge on, and I finally just said whatever. And let him do it.

Yeah, this was the last event we allowed Dreadnought builds- after this, it's all Wiz Kids suggested tournament format. Honestly, I don't think it would matter for this OP. I'll just chalk this OP up to one of the worst WK has ever put out, and it shows.

What ships did the mine layer run, something doesn't sound Kosher about that list. Also if your Borg player had 2 copies of multi kinetic Neutronic mines he was cheating because they are unique. As for the guy with the scout cube, that is shenanigans, you roll for damage first. Only the cloaked mines allow them to do their action first because its part of the card text.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
What ships did the mine layer run, something doesn't sound Kosher about that list. Also if your Borg player had 2 copies of multi kinetic Neutronic mines he was cheating because they are unique. As for the guy with the scout cube, that is shenanigans, you roll for damage first. Only the cloaked mines allow them to do their action first because its part of the card text.

Oh, it was a valid list. I looked at, the TO looked at it, all his opponents... it was a valid list using every stupid trick you could find to get a mine on a ship. I refuse to post it lest it be inflicted on some other poor fool playing STAW.

The one Borg player with two MKN Mines- It was probably one on his build, and one on the Scimitar, and he just ran over both of them. LOL

About the mine damage first- yeah, I knew that, but he refused to believe it coming up with some twisted, nonsense logic. Like I said, WAAC player, I wasn't gonna argue.

This OP really brought out the worst players and the worst builds IMHO. I had fun in it though.

Yeah this OP really sucked. The rules were terribly written. At the venues I play we had our worst attendance yet for these events. Of the people we did have they were some of our most friendly players. I only saw 1 borg ship over the entire series at 3 venues. One guy is starting to rely on fighters so we will have to deal with those. On the subject of dreadnoughts, everyone in my area was ready to jump on the suggested format when it was announced. People didn't like flying them or seeing them across the table.

I do hope that the next set of OPs are more interesting scenarios, most of the people we lost just got tired of flying around open space.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
What ships did the mine layer run, something doesn't sound Kosher about that list.

Sorry I'm commenting late on this subject, but I cant see how this was possible at 90 points either. what was the non-unique card that allowed a 5 point card under it?

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
What ships did the mine layer run, something doesn't sound Kosher about that list.

Sorry I'm commenting late on this subject, but I cant see how this was possible at 90 points either. what was the non-unique card that allowed a 5 point card under it?

Sounds loke Transphasic Emitters the Drone Ship. Though it is not worth buying 4 Drones for it.

thanks just wondering, new wave still hasn't shown up for us yet. Also, I didn't think to look at weapons on space dock

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
What ships did the mine layer run, something doesn't sound Kosher about that list.

Sorry I'm commenting late on this subject, but I cant see how this was possible at 90 points either. what was the non-unique card that allowed a 5 point card under it?

Ok, it's possible but a lot of lists should be able to tear it apart before it can do anything.

30 Voyager
05 Picard 8 (add weapon)
05 Independent Fleet Captain ( add 2 weapons and -1 to all weapons)
03 Sakonna (add a weapon and -2 to all weapons 5pts or less)
04 Torres (add weapon and tech)
03 Quark (hidden anti matter mine)
02 transphasic emitters (anti matter mines)
02 transphasic emitters (anti matter mines)
02 transphasic emitters (anti matter mines)
02 transphasic emitters (anti matter mines)
02 anti matter mines
02 anti matter mines
04 cloaked mines
04 cloaked mines

14 Preatus
03 cloaked mines
03 cloaked mines

90 total

It is interesting, who would expect 5 hidden mines when there are 2 out in the open But the ship will be shot to hell by most things before it can drop one of them.



If Voyager can get them off Picard 8 makes this nasty because he can set 1 die to a crit with the anti matter mines and the opponent doesn't get any defense dice. But you are still gambling that Voyager won't be shot out from under you.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
What ships did the mine layer run, something doesn't sound Kosher about that list.

Sorry I'm commenting late on this subject, but I cant see how this was possible at 90 points either. what was the non-unique card that allowed a 5 point card under it?

Ok, it's possible but a lot of lists should be able to tear it apart before it can do anything.

30 Voyager
05 Picard 8 (add weapon)
05 Independent Fleet Captain ( add 2 weapons and -1 to all weapons)
03 Sakonna (add a weapon and -2 to all weapons 5pts or less)
04 Torres (add weapon and tech)
03 Quark (hidden anti matter mine)
02 transphasic emitters (anti matter mines)
02 transphasic emitters (anti matter mines)
02 transphasic emitters (anti matter mines)
02 transphasic emitters (anti matter mines)
02 anti matter mines
02 anti matter mines
04 cloaked mines
04 cloaked mines

14 Preatus
03 cloaked mines
03 cloaked mines

90 total

It is interesting, who would expect 5 hidden mines when there are 2 out in the open But the ship will be shot to hell by most things before it can drop one of them.



If Voyager can get them off Picard 8 makes this nasty because he can set 1 die to a crit with the anti matter mines and the opponent doesn't get any defense dice. But you are still gambling that Voyager won't be shot out from under you.

I considered a supership as well but only got 6 antimatter mines and no Quark

36 Remian Warbird
04 Valdore +1 Tech
05 Indy Romulan Fleet Captian +2 weapon
03 Sakonna +1 weapon
03 Cloaked Mine
03 Cloaked Mine
01 Tranphasic Emmitter AMM
01 Tranphasic Emmitter AMM
01 Tranphasic Emmitter AMM
03 Antimatter Mine
03 Antimatter Mine
01 Hiren (if ship lives to lay out all mines Sakonna now is usefull after deployment)

14 Preatus
03 Cloaked Mine
03 Cloaked Mine
03 Tranphasic Emmitter AMM

87 Points

maybe Massacre for 90

Both are stupid and a clear abuse of min/max in my book, glad we adhere to the 50 point per ship rule where I play.

Added: I Agree thoough its too risky lay mines for 2 rounds and get your face smashed, and then what Preatus will do what exactly

I am really enjoying the suggested format, it does a good job at keeping the balance. I just hope that when RiF is over, OPs go back to 100pts. Even with the suggested format 120pts with no blind will really open things up for abuse.

Mr. S Baldrick I wish you hadn't posted that list. It's pretty close to what he was running.

The second list is pretty close to what a Romulan player ran.

People that want the return of Dreadnoughts... I can see bumping up the points per ship to the 60 point level. That's enough to really outfit a good ship, but not make it over powering.

STAW is really in a big mess now. 2nd Edition needs to come out, and I hope they make single cards available when they do. I'd hate to have to repurchase ships because all my current cards are obsolete.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
OPs go back to 100pts. Even with the suggested format 120pts with no blind will really open things up for abuse.

I'm not so sure it will change much, you still need 3 ships.

Here is mostly what you see now:
45-45-30, 50-40-30, 30-30-30-30 for the most part +1-5 points

No Blind 120

Non tactical cube
50-50-20 Not much to work with for a 3 ship

Best tactical cube load out someone can hope for:
54-52-14 to get the smallest ships Arie, Rom Scout, Rom science it can't be used on a resource since you need 3 ships

Please share, if you know some Stupid combos that are possible, cause it could help my group decide on some sort of alternate method. Many others in my group have your consern, but can't give the TO a clear reason why.

We have considered forcing participants to build 1 faction pure ship at 30 points with cards that come with that ship?

or

Blind buy of a small point blister...Our store owner has stated he'd drop entry fee for the OP kits to $5 as long as we have 6 particapants, if we decide to go this way. That way its only $17 plus change. Members get 20% off buying store product and all of us that play STAW are members.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Mr. S Baldrick I wish you hadn't posted that list. It's pretty close to what he was running.

The second list is pretty close to what a Romulan player ran.

People that want the return of Dreadnoughts... I can see bumping up the points per ship to the 60 point level. That's enough to really outfit a good ship, but not make it over powering.

STAW is really in a big mess now. 2nd Edition needs to come out, and I hope they make single cards available when they do. I'd hate to have to repurchase ships because all my current cards are obsolete.

Sorry , it was a fun exercise to try and figure it out.

Usually the only people I see wanting to return to dreadnoughts are WAAC folks.

I don't think its that much of a mess, it is still in a better place than Warhammer or 40K. You do have to read the FAQ, but even X-Wing has a lengthy FAQ these days. Checking the forum regularly can be tedious, but they will probably add stuff to the FAQ every 3-4 waves. Remember the forum didn'tireally get rolling until end of November beginning of December. The vast majority of problems are Internet hype from WAAC gamers that are upset because the game is no longer "Magic Wing"

I can see a 2.0 rulebook eventually. Some things definitely need to me added, the "may" ruling and some of the rulings on mines for starters. However from a business standpoint that will probably have to wait until the run of the current starter runs out.

I seriously doubt they will reprint any cards and honestly they don't need to. Most things that revolve around the "may" ruling would be fixed by adding that to the rule book. Take TOS Spock for instance, it would be ridiculous to reprint that whole pack just to add "once per turn" to his text. A simpler fix is just update the rule book. They won't invalidate cards, if anything they will just make multiple versions of characters and give us more options. TOS Enterprise crew and Refit crew are a great example.

There are only 3 cards that really warrant a reprint, Kuvok with the wrong faction symbol, generic Ferengi captain with unique symbol, and Tactical Stations missing unique symbol. Of those they have reprinted Kuvok, but honestly who really cares? He was the the worst captain the Vulcans have. He didn't see play before the reprint and won't see it after. All the complaints about his card was Internet hype, because nobody was seriously considering using him. As for the Ferengi captain, again who cares? A generic captain is a generic captain, move on. Tactical Stations is the only legitimate card that could use a reprint, but WK probably won't because it is a LE card, I don't blame them because an errata is a much simpler fix.

To be fair, while X-Wing has a lengthy FAQ, it has a LOT of pictures inside it, EG, the majority of the FAQ's have the picture of the related ship cards alongside it. Additionally, the FAQ has all the expanded rules for large / huge ships and the tournament rules too.

The actual 'proper' FAQ part, similar to what you'd see in Star Trek comes to a page and a half of well spaced out text.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/support/faq/X-Wing-FAQ-low-res.pdf

 Compel wrote:
To be fair, while X-Wing has a lengthy FAQ, it has a LOT of pictures inside it, EG, the majority of the FAQ's have the picture of the related ship cards alongside it. Additionally, the FAQ has all the expanded rules for large / huge ships and the tournament rules too.

The actual 'proper' FAQ part, similar to what you'd see in Star Trek comes to a page and a half of well spaced out text.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/support/faq/X-Wing-FAQ-low-res.pdf

if that is the case then I'd say we are in better shape than some people think. Roughly the same size FAQ for 3 ships in the core set 47 retail expansions and 31 prize ships. Compare that to about 20 some in X-Wing. I am by no means saying one game is better than the other but having roughly the same size FAQ for nearly 4 times as many ships is not a bad place to be in.

There's 37 proper X-Wing FAQ questions.

There's 39 'General Rulings' in Attack Wing.
10 Ship Card questions
21 Captain Card questions
2 Admiral
11 Elite Talents
24 Crew
26 Weapon
19 Tech
13 Borg
18 Resources
7 Space Stations

And that's without going into the specific scenario rule FAQs, which don't really count.

So that's 37 VS 190 rulings going by pure numbers. And, considering a lot of the X-Wing FAQs are probably crossed over into Attack Wings (EG Can you choose not to roll any defence dice when being attacked.)

I can't really see how they can be seen as roughly the same size FAQ.

I was going off what you said here.

 Compel wrote:

The actual 'proper' FAQ part, similar to what you'd see in Star Trek comes to a page and a half of well spaced out text.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/support/faq/X-Wing-FAQ-low-res.pdf

Still though, if you look at how much product STAW has then the size of the FAQ doesn't seem that bad. Is there room for improvement Yes, though just about every game needs improvement of some kind, but the overall situation is not as bad as some people want to think.