Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all,

So I've recently run into some serious problems fighting Eldar. My opponent has essentially crafted the perfect anti Space Marine list and I'm really struggling to find a way around it. From the best of my memory, out two lists are below:

Grey Knights (pretty much my standard list - Alpha Strike):

Librarian (ML3) with DLD
10x Terminators + 2x Psycannon + 2x Hammers
10x Interceptors + 2x Incinerators
10x Interceptors +2x Incinerators
Dreadknight + Heavy Psycannon + Heavy Incinerator + Personal Teleporter
Dreadknight + Heavy Psycannon + Heavy Incinerator + Personal Teleporter

Eldar (from the best of my memory):

Warlock (ML3)
10x Dire Avengers with Exarch
10x Dire Avengers with Exarch
3x War Walkers (with scatter lasers and another powerful weapon)
3x War Walkers (with scatter lasers and another powerful weapon)
5x Wraithguard (either with D-scythes or the S10 AP2 weapons)
3x weapons platform (with the barrage AP2 guns)
Then varying combinations of Wave Serpents, Vipers and Wraithlords depending on the points we play.

He generally keeps his Wraithguard near one team of walkers to stop me from alpha striking close by. The weapons platform is also kept close to the Wraithguards at the back of the board. Because of these combinations, I can't jump in his face, as although I will do some good damage, I will die the next turn. It's incredibly difficult to find priority targets when almost the entire army can slaughter my high cost Terminators and Dreadknights. So, I seek your help!

In terms of extra units, I have more of the standard marine models (probably another 10-15), Coteaz, 10 Acolytes, an IQ Chimera, 3 Rhino/Razorbacks, TL Autocannon Dreadnought, Vindicare Assassin, Brother Stern/Grand Master/Brother Captain and Draigo.

Flyers are a no go in our games so no Stormravens allowed. I'd like to use models I already own if possible. Does anyone have any good tactics or new lists I could use? Any help would be appreciated.

It looks like he's pretty tailored against you, going all out with short-range high-strength AP2.

It might be worth bringing up fliers for re-consideration: The balance of the game, such as it is, assumes that flamer and blast weapons, while strong on the ground, are useless against fliers. A Fire Raptor would tear his War Walkers to shreds without even trying. Fliers aren't really the great bugbear people once made them out to be.

Relic Sicaran Battle Tanks tear apart Eldar Skimmers, with a long-range 6-shot rending/ignores jink autocannon.

Invisibility is the other counter to most of these problems. Forgeworld's Severin Loth (rules on the FW downloads page) and Tigerius can guarantee you Invisibility, or just load up on Librarians rolling Telepathy. then throw it at your hardest-hitting unit. Draigo's notoriously useful for making sure it can stay mobile with Gate of Infinity.

Squads of Crusaders and Assassins from Inquisition might be fun here - with Sanctuary and a Priest, they've got a 2++ invulnerable, with a re-roll once in combat. Normally they'd never make it into combat, but his list looks a little slow-moving.

Long-range artillery might be an option. You can get a boatload of 36" S7 Tank Hunting missiles from the Tau Firebase, a 72" S10 Primary Weapon large blast from the Necron Annihilation Nexus, or something from the millions of battle brothers you Imperials have.

Or go crazy and field some Renegades and Heretics from Imperial Armour 13. Those S10 guns aren't quite as efficient at killing the 250+ bodies you can field without difficulty.

Ally in spa e wopfs or blood angels for a drop pod, and drop 10 combatsquadded ourifiers in his face and laugh as cleansing flame wrecks all his vehicles.

Pick up some centurians and ally imperial fists and make the draigo censtar and start jumping around smashing him


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the no flyers thing is really lame... They aren't in the rules for nothing

Thanks for the advice so far. It does seem I'm fairly screwed without going for Allies or flyers then. The main reason we don't use Flyers is because the only real way to counter them is with your own flyers, so as soon as 1 person starts using them, everyone has to splash out lots of money if they want to carry on playing. Although I might have to rethink this rule, seeing as there's no other way I can win.

Caelim, in regards to the Fire Raptor, is it possible to take this directly in a Grey Knights list, or would I have to ally Marines to take this? Same question for Severin, I assume I would have to ally with SM to take him? I do like the idea of always having invisibility.

Otherwise, I think the Tau Firebase may be the only way to go. I'd never do Necrons as an ally to SM for fluff reasons (it's wrong on so many levels).

theimperishable wrote:
Thanks for the advice so far. It does seem I'm fairly screwed without going for Allies or flyers then. The main reason we don't use Flyers is because the only real way to counter them is with your own flyers, so as soon as 1 person starts using them, everyone has to splash out lots of money if they want to carry on playing. Although I might have to rethink this rule, seeing as there's no other way I can win.

Caelim, in regards to the Fire Raptor, is it possible to take this directly in a Grey Knights list, or would I have to ally Marines to take this? Same question for Severin, I assume I would have to ally with SM to take him? I do like the idea of always having invisibility.

Otherwise, I think the Tau Firebase may be the only way to go. I'd never do Necrons as an ally to SM for fluff reasons (it's wrong on so many levels).

You don't need fliers to combat fliers. Especially in the case of Eldar, all it takes is a large volume of mid-high strength firepower. War Walkers and Wave Serpents are pretty good at this.

Alternatively, I'd try swapping out a unit of Interceptors for another Librarian with Terminators. Cleansing flame will wreck most of his list except Wraiths and Wave Serpents. Be very aggressive and force him to make tough decisions in deciding which units to kill. Grab him by the belt-buckle and kick his arse!

An imperial knight might be an idea? If nothing else their a great fire magnet letting the rest of the army get closer. Though Grey Knights will always suffer against Eldar and the sheer mass of shooting they can throw out.

Wait wait! You don't have to go allies quite yet, you just need some more Psychic stuff.

The unit I have been having great success with lately is Draigo, Stern, a Librarian (PML3), and a Xenos Inquisitor (with grenades and PML1); then either a Warband (with lots of Storm Shields) or Purifiers as an escort.

Draigo's 3++ turns into a 2++ with Sanctuary (from Stern). He can tank a LOT of shots with that save. Crusaders grouped around him give many many 2++. Some servo skulls help your Gate of Infinity scatter.
If you take Purifiers, fish for the 4++ on Divination with your Libby. If you take Crusaders, fish for Invisibility (which you can give to a Dreadknight).

Also, and especially since your opponent is kitted specifically against it, stop taking Termies! With all the AP2 he can pour out, don't spend the extra points when you know they're just going to get scorched.

If you do need some sacrificial lambs, combat squad the interceptors. Keep the two incinerators in one squad and the other squad can keep the other guys. Then shunt the two units up and your opponent has to use two units to take them out. You also end up with more warp charge points.

Two incinerators have a good chance of taking down a walker or two with good template placement and one war walker on it's own is not a big threat - those guys rely on weight of fire to be effective.

Where you put the justicar and what you do with each combat squad is of course down to the game being played but those 4 units you'll have are very mobile and the two incinerators in one squad can cause a good amount of damage and will force your opponent to deal with them in his backline whilst the dreadknights and terminators do their thing. He might even ignore the weaker 5 man storm bolter units for a few turns giving you the chance to grab objectives.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Wait wait! You don't have to go allies quite yet, you just need some more Psychic stuff.

The unit I have been having great success with lately is Draigo, Stern, a Librarian (PML3), and a Xenos Inquisitor (with grenades and PML1); then either a Warband (with lots of Storm Shields) or Purifiers as an escort.

Draigo's 3++ turns into a 2++ with Sanctuary (from Stern). He can tank a LOT of shots with that save. Crusaders grouped around him give many many 2++. Some servo skulls help your Gate of Infinity scatter.
If you take Purifiers, fish for the 4++ on Divination with your Libby. If you take Crusaders, fish for Invisibility (which you can give to a Dreadknight).

Also, and especially since your opponent is kitted specifically against it, stop taking Termies! With all the AP2 he can pour out, don't spend the extra points when you know they're just going to get scorched.

I think you are definitely right with the Terminators, given how easily they get popped. The main reason I take them is for the Psycannons, as I don't have much else in terms of high strength ranged weapons, so I'm finding it hard to bring myself to lose those.

Out of curiosity, what is the purpose of the Xenos Inquisitor in that case, is he solely for the additional ML and Rad grenades? I guess he gets the additional attempt at the 4++ in Div, if that's the way you use his psychic level. And do you deep strike this unit on the field, or just start in play and use GOI?

I do like the sound of it, I'll have to give it a try! What you recommend changing in my list to accomodate that. Obviously Draigo + Stern is a huge amount of points.

 ColdSadHungry wrote:

If you do need some sacrificial lambs, combat squad the interceptors. Keep the two incinerators in one squad and the other squad can keep the other guys. Then shunt the two units up and your opponent has to use two units to take them out. You also end up with more warp charge points.

Two incinerators have a good chance of taking down a walker or two with good template placement and one war walker on it's own is not a big threat - those guys rely on weight of fire to be effective.

Where you put the justicar and what you do with each combat squad is of course down to the game being played but those 4 units you'll have are very mobile and the two incinerators in one squad can cause a good amount of damage and will force your opponent to deal with them in his backline whilst the dreadknights and terminators do their thing. He might even ignore the weaker 5 man storm bolter units for a few turns giving you the chance to grab objectives.

Apologies, I probably should have said that I normally combat squad all of them (Termies and Interceptors), but normally with an incinerator per squad. That's a good idea putting the two incinerators in 1 squad rather than splitting them. It frees up one unit to be used solely for objective capturing!

Thanks for the help so far guys. It's really helping to get some ideas flowing!