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I realy struggle against this tau list



++ Tau Empire: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Ethereal

+ Elites +

Stealth Team
····Stealth Shas'ui [Counterfire defence system]
····Stealth Shas'ui [Counterfire defence system]
····Stealth Shas'ui [Counterfire defence system]
····Stealth Shas'ui [Counterfire defence system]
····Stealth Shas'ui [Counterfire defence system]
····Stealth Shas'vre [Burst cannon, Counterfire defence system, Homing beacon]

XV104 Riptide [Early warning override, Ion accelerator, Twin-linked plasma rifle]

+ Troops +

Fire Warrior Team [EMP grenades, 10x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle]
····Devilfish [Disruption pod, Twin-linked smart missile system]

Fire Warrior Team [EMP grenades, 10x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle]
····Devilfish [Disruption pod, Twin-linked smart missile system]

Fire Warrior Team [EMP grenades, 9x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle]
····Devilfish [Disruption pod, Twin-linked smart missile system]

+ Fast Attack +

Vespid Stingwings [4x Vespid Stingwing, Vespid Strain Leader]

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit [FW]

He usually is Holding the vespids in reserve together with the iontide.
His firewarriors are all embarked in the fishes.
He plays very agressive.
Turn two/ three his reserves come in Using the ghost Team that infiltrated .
I Play marines or eldar...
My infantrie gets shredded by the disembarking fire warriors Using the Storm of fire ability.
When i charge the ghosts i get Shot to pieces with bs2 fire...

Any ideas?

It's hard to give any worthy tactical advice without knowing what you're fielding.

Sorry

HQ

Master of the Forge
Bolter, Boltpistol;

Elites

5 Sternguard Veterans
3x Combi-Melta, Drop Pod;

5 Sternguard Veterans
3x Combi-Melta, Drop Pod;

Ironclad Dreadnought
CCCW, Heavy Flamer, Seismic Hammer, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod;

Troops

5 Tactical Marines
Plasmagun, Drop Pod;

5 Tactical Marines
Drop Pod;

5 Tactical Marines
Drop Pod;

Heavy Support

Ironclad Dreadnought
CCCW, Heavy Flamer, Seismic Hammer, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod;

Ironclad Dreadnought
CCCW, Heavy Flamer, Seismic Hammer, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod;

Ironclad Dreadnought
CCCW, Heavy Flamer, Seismic Hammer, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod;

Total: 1510 points (It's ok to be 1% over the points limit)

Or
Captain
-Bike
-stormshield

Command Squad
-Bikes
-3x Gravgun
-5x Powermaul
255

ELITES

Dreadnought
Venerable
2 Twin Linked Autocannons
145

TROOPS

Tactical Squad ( 10 )
-Meltagun
-Multimelta
-Drop Pod
195

Scout Squad
-Combiflamer
-Powerfist
-Landspeeder Storm
-Heavy Flamer
135

Scout Squad
-Combiflamer
-Powerfist
-Landspeeder Storm
-Heavy Flamer
135

HEAVY SUPPORT

Centurion Devastator Squad
-3x Gravcannon + Grav Amp
-Omniscope
260

Landraider Crusader
-Multimelta

You need long range gun lines here if he is going to play aggressive. get some devistators.

Land a pod near a vehicle and let out the combi weapons
Pop said vehicle with your devis
shoot remaining fire warriors
allow vets to get smashed
las cannon fire works on infantry too

turn a dread into a tacti dread, the HF is nice and what not but give one a better Anti Armor shooter.

you lack a lot of anti armor here outside of close range and one shots which can miss and have no repeat. Obviously assault isn't working out, turn to dakka. Marines are middle men and pretty good at all things so swap the tactic and high S and AP2-1 DPS the gak out of him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing is Target saturation, Ive seen too many games where a round of shooting yields little results because players want to fire at all the different models on the board.

Soak HVT with fire till it dies (quicker the more you shoot) and then move to the next. If his first turn is tideless, pop as many of the transports as you can and prepare for the incoming model that needs to be cut down with extreme prejudice.

Yeah, both lists seem rather CC or close-range when a few long-range units would help.
A quick idea of a list based on what you've listed:

Elites
5 Sternguard Veterans
3x Combi-Melta, Drop Pod;

5 Sternguard Veterans
3x Combi-Melta, Drop Pod;

TROOPS

Tactical Squad ( 5 )
-Meltagun
-Drop Pod

Tactical Squad ( 5 )
-Meltagun
-Drop Pod


Tactical Squad ( 5 )
-Meltagun
-Drop Pod

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastator squad
- 4 Lascanons

Turn 1 should pop the Devilfish without too much problem. Bonus if you can Pin occupants or shoot at them with spare squads...

Also still need an HQ to match

And be aware that he will most likely try to DS his Riptide / Vespid at the Devs. Take it into account. Even if it just means leaving them in a corner as far from the rest of your force so that whatever he's spending in the corner will have no other effect.

Jink save on Devilfish is 3+ (2+ if night fighting) so your looking at 1 melta pen per 3 combi meltas. Drop pods aren't going to cut it against this list (at least not with stern guard).

For Marines:
Play a grav centurion blob with Tigerius (going for divination for ignores cover). That will happily blow devil fishes to pieces. If you can pop the devilfish with the ethereal and then shoot him to pieces before the assault phase then you can ram a bunch of bikes into the devilfishes that moved forwards and the guys emerging from the wrecks will need to take pining tests on thier Ld of 8

For Eldar
Wave Serpents with twin linked scatter lasers (145 points each) will be quite effective on his Devilfishes. D6+1 S7 twin linked ignores cover shots against AV 12 is about 1.5 hull points. Serpents are also immune to his fire warriors shooting and he can't charge in (to use his haywire grenades) until at earliest turn 3 (can't charge after your vehicle has been blown up unless it is was an assault vehicle).

You could try to make a full strong sternguard squad with 6 meltas as you allready have accompanied by tank chapter master with auspex. This way you can reliably pop one transport - preferably the one with ethereal. Position the way your CM will tank riptide shots and spread out as much as possible. The second droppod dropping nearby should probably be a dual flamer dread to murderise what remains of the ethereal squad after the fish pops. This way you neutralize the ethereal buff threat.

Or you could have one half squad with full meltas + auspex CM and another squad with heavy flamer to burn down + rapid fire what's left after explosion.

It could be different if he hides the fish behind other stuff preventing you from dropping in. In this case, could try to take down an iontide with concentrated fire of meltas and poisoned shots. It's less reliable, but you'll be able to choose depending on situation.

If he bunches up to hide away the leading devilfish, you could try to use orbital strike on one of stuff that's nearby. Only the initial target can jink, so he'll have to deal with s10 ap1 ordnance large blast without jinks. It's deadly vs bunched up vehicles if you're more or less lucky.

If alpha-strike fails or you feel you won't be able to push him too hard due to his superior mobility and range, play for objectives. Droppods + marines are amazing in an objective game. While he shoots you down, you score points.

 BlackTalos wrote:
Yeah, both lists seem rather CC or close-range when a few long-range units would help.
A quick idea of a list based on what you've listed:

Turn 1 should pop the Devilfish without too much problem. Bonus if you can Pin occupants or shoot at them with spare squads...

Also still need an HQ to match

And be aware that he will most likely try to DS his Riptide / Vespid at the Devs. Take it into account. Even if it just means leaving them in a corner as far from the rest of your force so that whatever he's spending in the corner will have no other effect.

or buying an ADL to tear into them with interceptor.

Problem with pods so far... When he sees he is going against pods he will Start mr riptide on the Field blasting the disembarking squad with the pieplate... And the 3+, or worst Case 2+ Save is making those fishes Ultra hard.
Biggest Problem.. To many big threats
If i try killing the fishes will all might the yvahra and the ghost Team Take out a vehicle and an infantry Unit a turn.
If i try killing the yvahra the fishes get into Position where i cant nearly hurt em and take my objectives .
Small squads like devaststors Most of the Time only Last one round until the vespids kill em..

 winterwind85 wrote:
Problem with pods so far... When he sees he is going against pods he will Start mr riptide on the Field blasting the disembarking squad with the pieplate... And the 3+, or worst Case 2+ Save is making those fishes Ultra hard.
Biggest Problem.. To many big threats
If i try killing the fishes will all might the yvahra and the ghost Team Take out a vehicle and an infantry Unit a turn.
If i try killing the yvahra the fishes get into Position where i cant nearly hurt em and take my objectives .
Small squads like devaststors Most of the Time only Last one round until the vespids kill em..

Centstar or Waveserpent spam, either of these will decimate this list.

wtnind wrote:

Centstar or Waveserpent spam, either of these will decimate this list.

How's it supposed to be a tactical advice?..

Anywayz, as i've told, auspex lowers coverr by -1. That should be enough to lower jink to 4+. Go hunting for the warlord fish. If he tries to hide it behind other fishes - use CM's orbital strike targeting another fish but touching the needed one. He can only jink with an initial target.

Good bet could be Tigurius rolling for ignore cover divination power but you don't have one from what i see.

Another good thing you can and must do is play for objectives. You throw something scary at him - like a shield eternal CM with vets in a pod, a dread and a supporting squad. And others roll around the map grabbing points. By the time he deals with your vanguard, you're supposed to be leading on points allready.

Take that Land Raider. Tau hate Land Raiders. They have very few gun options that can hurt it, and a lot of the common builds don't have anything above S7.

 koooaei wrote:

wtnind wrote:

Centstar or Waveserpent spam, either of these will decimate this list.

How's it supposed to be a tactical advice?...

See my first post. This is a single line summary of my fist post. I made summary post because right after my first post OP kept talking about problems with pods and jink saves (like he hadn't taken on board any of the counters suggested so far).

Also changing units from bad units to good units is good tactical advice.

wtnind wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

wtnind wrote:

Centstar or Waveserpent spam, either of these will decimate this list.

How's it supposed to be a tactical advice?...

See my first post. This is a single line summary of my fist post. I made summary post because right after my first post OP kept talking about problems with pods and jink saves (like he hadn't taken on board any of the counters suggested so far).

Also changing units from bad units to good units is good tactical advice.

It's clearly not a tactical advice. You're confusing list-building/tailoring and tactics.

You should be able to mitigate infiltrators using deployment. As others have said, Orbital command Fish.

Best thing you can do tactically is be able to direct an opponent's list and figure how to make it work less well. If you are facing Screamerstar, try to kill Fateweaver (the grimoire has a good chance of failing then). Against this list you want to prevent him using the homing beacon, and you want to kill the Ethereal.

Riptides are great but also easily dealable with. Melta is good. Assaulting with your dreadnoughts is good (they are only str 6 and have to fight front armour). But, as someone insinuated above re: Tigurius Tau are v suceptibke to psychic attacks. Drop podding a librarian and Psychic Shreiking could be a great way to start whittling.

And get out of a drop pod and spread out. Those pie plates can only cover as many guys as you allow.

 Mike Leon wrote:

Take that Land Raider. Tau hate Land Raiders. They have very few gun options that can hurt it, and a lot of the common builds don't have anything above S7.

XV109 will bend that raider over like a council of Catholic archbishops with an alter boy. Haywire Burst=Dead Landraider after 1-2 rounds of shooting.

The reason you're losing is because you're trying to beat FW stuff with non-FW stuff. Buy some stupidly broken model from FW to counter the XV109.

Or say "no more Force World." Seriously, FW stuff is broken.

 koooaei wrote:

wtnind wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

wtnind wrote:

Centstar or Waveserpent spam, either of these will decimate this list.

How's it supposed to be a tactical advice?...

See my first post. This is a single line summary of my fist post. I made summary post because right after my first post OP kept talking about problems with pods and jink saves (like he hadn't taken on board any of the counters suggested so far).

Also changing units from bad units to good units is good tactical advice.

It's clearly not a tactical advice. You're confusing list-building/tailoring and tactics.

Classify it however you want, it is 'useful advice', which is exactly what the OP put in his title.

Had a game against mr tau yesterday.
I brought the centstar with tiggi
A landraider, cm for orb Strike podded melta veterans and a fireraptor gunship a Buddy of Mine gave me .thought he Never bring's AA and it would be a good idea.
I swear i talked to no one about my tactic for the game ... He set up his army..




+ HQ +

Commander R'alai [FW]

+ Elites +

XV104 Riptide [Early warning override, Heavy burst cannon, Twin-linked smart missile system, Velocity tracker]

+ Troops +

Fire Warrior Team [EMP grenades, 6x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle]

Fire Warrior Team [EMP grenades, 6x Fire Warrior Shas'la with pulse rifle]

+ Fast Attack +

DX-6 'Remora' Drone Fighter Squadron [FW] [DX-6 'Remora', DX-6 'Remora', DX-6 'Remora']

DX-6 'Remora' Drone Fighter Squadron [FW] [DX-6 'Remora', DX-6 'Remora', DX-6 'Remora']

XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit [FW]

+ Heavy Support +

XV107 R'varna Battlesuit [FW]

It was a disaster....

I told you.

Ban FW and you'll do much better.

What was so disastrous about it? How did the cents do? Did you roll ignores cover on the cents?

If your opponent has lots of (any) fliers the demand to use mysterious objectives so you can hopefully find a skyfire nexus.

Fire raptor is pretty awesome but those little pesky drones have 2+ jinks so raptor isn't ideal against them (and they are absurdly cheap - but hey FW).

Cents should be able to flatten a riptide a turn (unless they novaed 3++). Imperial knights are pretty good against riptides but need a bit of help and support too (e.g. Thunderfire cannon to clear out guys with haywire grenades, cents to kill the haywire riptide (FW). Also make sure you remember that although the big FW riptide moves like a flying monstrous creature, it is not hard to hit (you shoot at it normally, not requiring 6s).

I agree with wtnind, grav-cents can really ruin a riptide's day. Even with Stim Injectors I have had them get blasted by 4 grav cents in a one turn.

He Stole initiative and in Turn 1 Shot everything at the centstar.
Rolled bad and he took out all Cents, only tig survived:-(

 winterwind85 wrote:
He Stole initiative and in Turn 1 Shot everything at the centstar.
Rolled bad and he took out all Cents, only tig survived:-(

Try putting a chapter master with Artificer Armour and Shield Eternal on a bike in the front of the star. And buff your squad size up to 5 cents.

For extra lolz give him a Thunder Hammer and make him white scars (for Hit and Run).

If you don't think you are facing a lot of high cover save stuff you can take Telepathy with Tigurius and cast Invisibility. Remember you roll your psyhcic powers one at a time so you can keep rolling on Telepathy till you get Invisibility then pick up Prescience (if you need to).

Are you playing missions or just death match? Also what is the terrain for you games like? Planet bowling ball or a good covering all round? Some tau players have a tendency to engineer the board to their advantage (subconsciously or not) so make sure you get plenty of stuff down and randomize deployment zones (it should go without saying to try and avoid hammer and anvil deployment).

If he is playing super aggressive then why not call his bluff and go for all bikes list? If he is getting in your face, get right back in his and wipe him in CC. His answer to your bikes will be VoF, your answer to that has to be jinking, tanking hits on characters and multiple charges to lessen the effect of supporting fire. Biker grav guns make just a good a mess of riptides as cents do, you just have to get closer. Be sure not to focus all your attention on the riptides too, this is what he is banking on - sure they are fething dangerous, but realistically they can only take out a unit a turn max. Focus everything else down first.

Also your lists seem to be a bit toy heavy - trim the fat, keep squads focused on their role and get more boots on the ground.

Three things Tau don't like - Threat over load, Threat overload that is hurtling towards them, and Threat overload that is armed to the teeth looking for CC.

Sadly I know nothing of Eldar apart form their pointy hats, so im gonna say something useless like.............................. seerstar?