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Yup, you read correct. 3 Ignores Cover str 10 AP 1 Large Blasts.

HQ
Chaos Sorcerer - Balestare, ML3, Daemon Heart, Bike - 175 points


Heavy Support
Chaos Rapier Weapon Battery x 3 with 6 CSM accompanying it. - 225 points for the whole Unit.

Your Sorcerer can now roll on Divnation and hope to get Perfect Timing, which gives himself and the Unit hes in "Ignores Cover" on their weapons. The reason for the bike is if you decide to take multiple Units of Chaos Rapiers with Crew accompanied, 1 squad gets ambushed, detach that sucker and run him into another squad.

This thing sounds terrifying personally... at just 12" in range the weapon is str 6, 12-24" str 8 ap 4. between 24-48 its str 10 ap 1 which for the range, is a major improvement over conventional Conversion Beamers which require 48"+ in order to dish out Str 10 Large Blasts. The kicker to it all i the fact they're so damn cheap! I already had 9 and have used them already to great success, but after thinking of this, well.... What do you guys think?

Only 50% of getting perfect timing. Not a reliable strategy.

Another idea- Which may be more reliable is the same build; but with hades autocannons. With prescience and the amount of s8 shots coming out, that's pretty scary.

Only a 50% chance of getting ignores cover. Such a shame if you don't - you'd only be left with 3 st10 ap1 large blasts with -4 off the scatter.
Can't believe I missed the range reduction on theae beauties! Been staring at IA:13 for weeks now and just breezed past it.
Really good catch Golioth!

Huh, totally missed they were large blast. Thats pretty gnarly.

The hades are good for chopping up planes and ignoring their precious jink. (Also include a demagogue of tzeentch for bs 2 snapshots). Shame they are only range 36 tho, that could be a dealbraker.

48" max range on the beamer isn't great and they lose potency at short range.

My fave unit for ignores cover still has to be the earthshaker battery. Barrage so no worrying about line or sight.

It's actually 61.7%

No its 50%

1-[1*(5/6)*(4/5)*(3/4)]=0.5=50%

1/6 to get it with the first attempt, 1/5 with the second, 1/4 with the third. So, that's basically:
1/6 for one attempt
1/6 + 1/5 for two
1/6 + 1/5 + 1/4 for three

Prove me wrong

 koooaei wrote:
1/6 to get it with the first attempt, 1/5 with the second, 1/4 with the third. So, that's basically 1/6 + 1/5 + 1/4.

You don't add them together thats not how math works

I can prove your math wrong. Assuming you have 6 attempts:

1 - [1*5/6*4/5*3/4*2/3*1/2*1] = 0.83

that's clearly wrong as when you have 6 dice you should get 100%

You are wrong.

Even more obvious using cards... you get 3, 3 are left. 50% If you had a mark and were thinking of swapping the primaris it would be tricky but that doesn't apply in this case.

 koooaei wrote:
1/6 to get it with the first attempt, 1/5 with the second, 1/4 with the third. So, that's basically:
1/6 for one attempt
1/6 + 1/5 for two
1/6 + 1/5 + 1/4 for three

Prove me wrong

Let me give you an example on how your process is flawed.

Lets assume that instead of 1 perfect timing, there is are 3.

So it would be 3/6 + 3/5 + 3/4

Which would equal 185%. Which is impossible because you can't have more then 100% but also there is still a chance of you picking 3 that aren't so it wouldn't even be 100%.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
I can prove your math wrong. Assuming you have 6 attempts:

1 - [1*5/6*4/5*3/4*2/3*1/2*1] = 0.83

that's clearly wrong as when you have 6 dice you should get 100%

You are wrong.

You screwed up the equation. The 6th part isn't 1, its 0/1 because you subtract 1 from both the numerator and the denominator which you didn't do on the last part

So it should be 1 - [1*(5/6)*(4/5)*(3/4)*(2/3)*(1/2)*(0/1)] = 1-[0] = 1 = 100%

Oh, you're right! Forgot about diminishing by 1 My bad.

The s10 is important, as wraiths are going to be a big deal now. But they are unlikely to loiter in the range bracket.. can the rapiers move and shoot?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The s10 is important, as wraiths are going to be a big deal now. But they are unlikely to loiter in the range bracket.. can the rapiers move and shoot?

Artillery in general can (since its no different then if a normal person had the weapon), but Conversion Beamers are a heavy weapon so it would snap firing and thus can't fire.

Stick a second Sorceror with biomancy in the unit... 50% chance at relentless...

Ooh.. does that work?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It could be the same sorceror, as you wont need ignore cover against wraith spam

I don't really think you are going to need to move them tbf. If you invest in a bastion (first time I think I've ever suggested that over a bunker) you KNOW you will have a high vantage point that you can place anywhere on your backline. If facing opponents that are slow or less likely to advance then centre it, if its wraiths, then put it in a back corner.
In fact, they could quite possibly, without the need for a sorc, be the most reliable anti-wraith weapon in the game. You won't need ignores cover against wraiths anyway. Take 2 CAD with a bunker for each, take 2 batteries, put a bunker in each corner, then if any wraith units get into the <24 range of one, the other can shoot at them and vice versa. Much like the overlapping fields of fire napoleonic era bastions provided for cities and forts.

Overlapping fields of fire Haha love it. 2 bastions is a bit of an investment but worth it I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
325 for 3 beamerd im a voided bastion. 750 for two.
I think I prefer the Typhon.

Agreed... it'd have to be in upwards of 2000pts or just not take the bastions. But then you risk opponents obscuring models going bhind low LoS blocking cover etc.

I played a game last night trying them against some Wave Serpents with my friend which I had lent him my Eldar.

I took 2 units of 3 which came to 450 points, hid them inside some ruins and a forest and pretty much just layed supressing fire against my Eldar most of the game. I decided to help my friend out a lot since he wasnt too used to Eldar and basically played both sides, but the poor little Serpents, I took 3 and the turn I used a Serpent Shield, the Vehicles disappeared. Without the Serpent Shield reducing Pens to Glances it exploded on the second Blast.

The other 2 and both Wraith Knights LoSd and moved up the board but by turn 4 I had managed to kill the second serpent and the Jetseer + Bikes. I lost a unit of Rapiers due to a WraithKnight Charge, which was expected but countered and attacked with the 6CSM gunners + My Chaos Lord accompanied by spawn which were moving up the center of the board. After killing the Wraithknight I moved my remaining 2 CSM back onto the guns but they were later destroyed by a Serpent shield. After that the points from objectives were meaningless and I decided to concede just from the notion of how little I had left on my Eldar side.

It was a fun playtest. When I rolled for my sorc at the begining of the game as per usual, got Perfect Timing on my second Psychic Power Roll. Luck? Maybe. But welcome to the game of Dice.

What do you guys reckon- Hades autocannon rapier?

http://s826.photobucket.com/user/Lamenterkyle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_17956522311084_zpsysqy4iq5.jpeg.html

Captyn_Bob wrote:
What do you guys reckon- Hades autocannon rapier?

http://s826.photobucket.com/user/Lamenterkyle/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_17956522311084_zpsysqy4iq5.jpeg.html

That's a thunderfire cannon

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99810101018_ThunderfireCannonNEW01.jpg

I posted some pics of mine over in painting and modelling, but here it is again.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/713598-Chaos%20Rapier%20front.html

Roknar wrote:
I posted some pics of mine over in painting and modelling, but here it is again.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/713598-Chaos%20Rapier%20front.html

Very nicely done!

Thanks, I am actually suprised there aren't more picture of chaos rapiers floating around. They are less difficult to do than you'd think, and less work too. I mean you can make them much cleaner than I did and more complex still, but I built mine to look nice from a distance lol. Works well enough and doesn't require too much patience or skill. It's only the first one that takes a bit longer.