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I've quit literally burned quite a few units that regular DS and therefore stay in their clumped formation in order to shoot.

Yeh I'm always wary of shooting DS units rather than running them, due to ap3 blasts.

Yeah that is my main concern. Deep striking is awesome when tactically applicable, but is dangerous vs the right opponent.

But 400 points of free wargear is hard to pass up.

I had heard of that formation, but havnt seen anyone put a list on with it on here.
I guess the free power weapons and combis are nice, but I would likely add a few storm shields to make them more survivable. Do you guys think the vanguard vets with those upgrades would be better in cc than the dc and dante star?

Im not sure. I think that with priests escorting the vanguard vets, they become legitimately scary threats. But then you have to ask if theyre better than sanguinary guard, at that point. Lets compare the basic vanguard in this formation to a death company.

-Death Co- 23 points with jump pack
Feel no pain
Fearless
rage
relentless
5 attacks on the charge at str5 (and init5 with BSF)

-Vanguard Vet- 22 points with jump pack
Free power weapon
ATSKNF
4 attacks on the charge at str5 ap3 or str6 ap2
No init bonus from Baal Strike Force

I honestly dont know what is better.

I ran 3 5 man DC units with jps against my friends eldar the other day. A squad of 5 and a squad of 4 managed to make it into combat. I didn't include any power weapons or fists so his Dire Avengers 4+ and his Warp Spiders 3+ really made a difference. Even when 3 (2 as one died to overwatch) later charged his guardian squad, the 5+ came into play to ensure he lost very few guardians. I really wished I'd included at least 1 powersword in each squad.
I think many of us look at the ap3 of powerswords and overlook the fact that it is also efficient on poorer armour save models too. I'm definitely guilty of this.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Yeah that is my main concern. Deep striking is awesome when tactically applicable, but is dangerous vs the right opponent.

But 400 points of free wargear is hard to pass up.

The power weapons are frequently superfluous, though. Oh, these guys aren't init 5 on the assault? Forget that then.

Is the BSF really that good? I'm still using CAD as i don't fight many high Initiative armies.
Is everyone else using the BSF and formation's or sticking to CAD? Is there any consensus as I'm not convinced the I bonus is necessary against most of the other codex's.

BSF makes a big difference against other marines, the most common opponent. Without BSF, you might as well pack it up against SW.

kryczek wrote:
Is the BSF really that good? I'm still using CAD as i don't fight many high Initiative armies.
Is everyone else using the BSF and formation's or sticking to CAD? Is there any consensus as I'm not convinced the I bonus is necessary against most of the other codex's.

I had some luck running BSF with a CAD of just 2HQ and a couple of tac squads - that way all my assaulty troops get the +1 I and my objective campers have obsec

I used the Sanguine Wing against the new necrons in exactly one game and they performed amazingly well.

I really want to try it against other opponents though to see how viable it is overall.

If you're going to add storm shields to the unit, give them to guys with one free lightning claw, as they won't lose a bonus attack.

Here's how I run my two vanguard squads:


3 power swords
3 power axes
2 power mauls
1 power lance
1 lightning claw / storm shield

Cool thing about having a squad with ten free power weapons is it allows you to model dudes with gear you'd NEVER pay actual points for, like a power lance or power maul.

Martel732 wrote:
BSF makes a big difference against other marines, the most common opponent. Without BSF, you might as well pack it up against SW.

This is a really good point. Striking before thunderwolves is gigantic, and hitting other MEQs before they hit back is also big. It lets us minimize casualties like we did in 5th ed. Additionally, other init5 units are normally fragile by comparison, so hitting simultaneously against them takes away that advantage. Finally, with with wraiths becoming increasingly popular, having access to units that can actually fight them is huge.

I'm not sure power mauls are worth it on VVs (unless fighting wraithknights). Most of the opponents which have 4+ are T3, so a powersword with FC will wound them on a 2+ anyway. Whilst most MCs are T5/6 with a 3+. I would rather wound on a 5+ and ignore armour than wound on a 3+ and give them a 3+ save.

Are Blood Angels the Space Marines for me if I really like the idea of Assault/Vanguard Marines and other Close quarters stuff?

Mudhen wrote:
Are Blood Angels the Space Marines for me if I really like the idea of Assault/Vanguard Marines and other Close quarters stuff?

Most definitely!

Though for the purposes of assaulting, vanguard veterans and assault marines are easily outclassed by death company and sanguinary guard, both of which are super killy =)

 th3maninblak wrote:
Its 2 squads of 10 vanguard veterans, one squad of 10 sternguard vets, and a stormraven. The sternguard have to ride in the raven, and the vanguards have to deep strike. The whole formation starts in reserves and comes in on a rerollable 3+. Additionally all vanguard vets may take a power weapon or lightning claw for free, and all sternguard may take a combi weapon for free.

Not that you should take them and nobody probably will but I thought I would point out that the Sternguard can have free storm bolters instead within that formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 th3maninblak wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
BSF makes a big difference against other marines, the most common opponent. Without BSF, you might as well pack it up against SW.

This is a really good point. Striking before thunderwolves is gigantic, and hitting other MEQs before they hit back is also big. It lets us minimize casualties like we did in 5th ed. Additionally, other init5 units are normally fragile by comparison, so hitting simultaneously against them takes away that advantage. Finally, with with wraiths becoming increasingly popular, having access to units that can actually fight them is huge.

Used the Angel's Fury Spearhead twice again at the weekend there and won both games. I had Corbulo in the Death Company Squad in the morning and it's so disgusting on the charge. We are talking about I6 Death Company with WS5 and S5 on the charge. I was up against Chaos marines. He also deployed relatively close together so Cassor was also able to claim the bonuses from Corbulo and it was brutal. I only lost 4 Death Company and Cassor in the end. The Tactical Squads in the Stormravens just cleaned up and tidied up afterwards.

Afternoon game was a team game in which I teamed up with a Space Wolves player to go up against Eldar and Orks. I won that game too on Objectives. The Ork were used as a buble wrap for the Wave Serpents but we tied them up and eventually munched them. The Stormravens did nice by making the Wave Serpents jink. One Stormraven was blown up out the sky unfortunately with Corbulo and A Tact Squad in it but all in all I'm quite pleased with how we did.

EDIT: Thought I would just add my list:

Corbulo
1 Scout Squad, 6 men, all with Camo Cloaks and Snipers
Cassor the Damned
8 Death Company, 1 Power Sword, 1 Thunder Hammer, 1 Infernus Pistol with a drop pod
2 Fast Attack Drop Pods, one for Cassor and one empty for 2 drop pods first turn.

Angels Fury Spearhead
2 Stormravens with TL Multi Melta's and TL Lascannon & Hurricane Bolters
1 Storm raven with TL Plasma Cannon and Heavy Bolters & Hurricane Bolters
2 Tactical Squads with Melta Gun and Combi melta Sarg
1 Tactical Squad with heavy Flamer, Flamer & Combi Flamer Sarg

I also had a Librarian in my army but I get him for free as the campaign I am playing in allows me to have 150pts worth of Free Psykers. The rest of the army comes to about 1850pts.

I used cassor this weekend and realised when I double checked stats you can cased the quickening on him As he's a character unlike normal dc dreads. I then abused this for two rounds with 2 lucky d3 rolls of 3. Needless to say he's hard to deal with if you can get him into combat.
After a few games now I'm finding bsf is invaluable and can't see myself making a list without it.

Also found running a couple of basic jp dc squads worked really well as cheap distraction units, my opponent was so worried about them he want focusing on my dreads which rinsed him. Really starting to enjoy the new codex

dark_red wrote:
I used cassor this weekend and realised when I double checked stats you can cased the quickening on him As he's a character unlike normal dc dreads. I then abused this for two rounds with 2 lucky d3 rolls of 3. Needless to say he's hard to deal with if you can get him into combat.
After a few games now I'm finding bsf is invaluable and can't see myself making a list without it.

Also found running a couple of basic jp dc squads worked really well as cheap distraction units, my opponent was so worried about them he want focusing on my dreads which rinsed him. Really starting to enjoy the new codex

Yep, that's right. Cassor is a Character so quickening works well for him. I did consider putting the Librarian with the Death Company for this very reason but it does require Cassor to be relatively close by which isn't always optimal if I'm wanting to charge to different squads that a bit away but still within 12" of two of the stormravens.

I had 2 lib dreads, cassor and 2 frag furioso dreads all pod in that gam. Not my usual type of play style but was surprisingly effective and rather fun. My opponent targeted the furioso dreads first. Which meant cassor and a lib made it into combat without a scratch with the second lib just sitting behind buffing up.
Wanting to try dc, sg, cs and vanguard next to see which works best for What What, mainly soaking shots for dante and a lib to make it to combat but also for pure killing power

Poly Ranger wrote:
I'm not sure power mauls are worth it on VVs (unless fighting wraithknights). Most of the opponents which have 4+ are T3, so a powersword with FC will wound them on a 2+ anyway. Whilst most MCs are T5/6 with a 3+. I would rather wound on a 5+ and ignore armour than wound on a 3+ and give them a 3+ save.

Yeah, but that's the point I'm making, when they're all FREE you can use options that you'd never pay for otherwise. Let's say you're fighting all MEQs and you're not going to end up assaulting any vehicles. Stick your two power mauls up front when you deep strike in, because you are going to take casualties, so pull them first. No problem. And if for some reason you don't take any casualties, shoot, whatever unit you charge is going to die from 40 power weapon attacks, whether two of them are mauls or not.

Besides, there are just enough things they're better against that you're actually likely to run up against (necron wraiths, T4 or higher demons, light vehicles, 'ard boyz) that they're worth keeping around just in case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarthOvious wrote:


I also had a Librarian in my army but I get him for free as the campaign I am playing in allows me to have 150pts worth of Free Psykers. The rest of the army comes to about 1850pts.

Whoah, and you DIDN'T put a librarian dreadnought in that spare drop pod?

 Walnuts wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:


I also had a Librarian in my army but I get him for free as the campaign I am playing in allows me to have 150pts worth of Free Psykers. The rest of the army comes to about 1850pts.

Whoah, and you DIDN'T put a librarian dreadnought in that spare drop pod?

I did think about it but A Libby Dread is 150 points for a level 1 Psyker. So I wouldn't be able to get the 2nd Mastery Level. Do you think it's worth a shot? To be honest it would put a hole in their campaign since we get a sheet to roll on that gives us bonuses or negatives depending if the Psyker dies or not. I like to see how they apply the result that my Psyker loses a wound if I roll that in the even that I die.

haaah, I mean, they'd probably give you -1 hull point or something, but yeah man, I wouldn't say a level 1 librarian dreadnought is better than a level 2 regular librarian with some good gear in every list, but considering you have an empty drop pod, I'd 100% say it's better for your list

People on this board poo on librarian dreadnoughts a lot, but I use mine in 90% of the games I play, and he's never done me wrong

 Walnuts wrote:
haaah, I mean, they'd probably give you -1 hull point or something, but yeah man, I wouldn't say a level 1 librarian dreadnought is better than a level 2 regular librarian with some good gear in every list, but considering you have an empty drop pod, I'd 100% say it's better for your list

People on this board poo on librarian dreadnoughts a lot, but I use mine in 90% of the games I play, and he's never done me wrong

It would give me two charging dreadnoughts coming out of drop pods.

Yeah, and if you roll well you can get some serious psychic firepower out of that thing the turn that it drops, too.

Use pyromancy for a guaranteed heavy flamer if you're facing lots of light infantry, or the ultimate shot would be nailing multiple vehicles with the blood lance, which, maaan, I haven't done that since 5th edition, but it is sweeeet when you pull it off.

2k- Bloody Centstar
Baal Strike Det
LoW: Dante: 220

HQ:
Astorath-165

Troops:
2xTac Sqd x5-140

Elites:
DCx9: 2xPF, Jump Packs- 257
DCx9: 2xPF, Jump packs- 257
514

Fast:
Assault Marines: 2xMelta, combi-melta- 115
Drop Pod
Assault Marines: 2xMelta, combi-melta- 115
Drop Pod

SM CAD:

Tiggy: 165

2x5 Scouts w CCW: 110

3xCentStar: 3xGC, Sgt w Omni, LC: 350

ADL w Quad guns: 100

Total: 1994

What ya'll think? Might have problem against everything except daemons and maybe serpent spam.

Well, a double CAD blood angels+sentinels of terra just came in 2nd at the las vegas open. It was an interesting list. BA were mainly there for a veritas vitae librarian, fast attack pod and mephiston, but we still contributed.

Do you think a dual deathstar list could be possible in this codex?
I was considering a dantestar and assault terminators with th/ss, mephiston and maybe a priest or corbulo in a stormraven.

DC is probably the best deathstar in the codex.

Centstar anchor the middle destroying everything in range. Tac Sqd hold home objective with the ADL or used as a anvil for the DC. Scouts outflank to secure/contest objectives. Podded Assault marines to secure/contest objectives or also used as a anvil. The DC should be able to eat everything up it touches or tar pit other powerful deathstars. Invis Cents can last a long time and can also used as a emergency tarpit.

I wouldnt consider death company a death star. They arent durable enough to be classified as such.

They are, however, every bit as offensively powerful as other death star units, which means you can use death co to break your opponents super unit in half.

The closest thing Blood Angels have is the good ol' fashioned TH/SS termies in LRC with a mix of IC's.
Not that great for the points.

The other option is Dante + Priest + Sanguinary Guard.

Blood Angels don't generally work around an idea about death star. They're a good all-around assault force.