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I personally think ba are mid table for me and I think thats what it comes down to, It's subjective and ba aren't very well represented in big tournaments currently but this will slowly change
There are some brilliant builds and options but you have to play to strengths and tactics are key and unforgiving for ba.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mathaius90 wrote:
Is Baal Predator any good anymore? Best loadout?

Short anwser is no

Its now a heavy and id always take a standard pred with las sponsons over the baal now but found the fast vindicator even better. Sometimes the flamer baal can work but elites are where points should be spent not heavy imo

dark_red wrote:
I'm really surprised how many people think ba didnt move up on the rankings. They aren't my main army but I've played about 8-10 games with them and love them.
Bsf mephiston with biomancy is awesome when you have another lib casting quickening on him.
Last two games I've played he's killed a wraithknight in 1 charge, and a twc deathstar with some help of a charging dc dread

Want a death star, mephy 3 th ss, 2 lc terminators in crusader, throw in a term lib with ss and ve and an ig priest. Pod dreads in to draw fire and use cheap 5 man dc jp squads to pull the enemies army around. Break there game plan then hit them with meph.

That or take gk and buff 2 dreadknights with lib on bikes. It's bloody funny

Here is a Deathstar for you if allying Grey Knights. Take Stern, a GK Libby, Termies with TH/SS and a Sanguinary Priest. Roll on Telepathy with the GK libby and hope for Invisibility. If you get your powers off then you have a unit with 2+, 2++, 5+++ FNP and 6's are needed in order to hit them. Now that is Death Star Heaven.

Most codices usually use ally's when making Death Stars i.e. Eldar/DE combo's and various Imperial combo's. Even Imperial Knights are taken as allies most of the time.

 mathaius90 wrote:
Is Baal Predator any good anymore? Best loadout?

I don't think so. The tri-las pred is almost always a better choice. Ranged AP 2 is pure gold. Everything the Baal is good against, we can punch in the face.

Yeah, I love my Baal Predators, and they still occasionally find their way into my lists if im expecting a bunch of light armor or monsterous creatures, or heavy infantry lists, but losing scout really hurt them, even if they went down 10 points in return.

Personally, my heavy support slot is usually occupied by a pair of stormravens =D

 th3maninblak wrote:
Yeah, I love my Baal Predators, and they still occasionally find their way into my lists if im expecting a bunch of light armor or monsterous creatures, or heavy infantry lists, but losing scout really hurt them, even if they went down 10 points in return.

Personally, my heavy support slot is usually occupied by a pair of stormravens =D

I have largely given up on anti-air, as I find the Stormraven very inefficient. Now that the hellturkey has been knee-capped, I don't feel the need.

Martel732 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Yeah, I love my Baal Predators, and they still occasionally find their way into my lists if im expecting a bunch of light armor or monsterous creatures, or heavy infantry lists, but losing scout really hurt them, even if they went down 10 points in return.

Personally, my heavy support slot is usually occupied by a pair of stormravens =D

I have largely given up on anti-air, as I find the Stormraven very inefficient. Now that the hellturkey has been knee-capped, I don't feel the need.

Under normal circumstances i would agree, but since i reroll my reserves for them and occasionally carry a unit of scouts in 1 or 2 they dont feel so inefficient. Also there are a ton of people at my LGS that love fliers. Our main AM player uses 2 valks and 2 vendettas in almost every list, another guy uses 3 heldrakes, my best friend usually brings 2 stormtalons, another guy usually uses 3 flyrants, etc.

I have been planning a Dante dual-raven list, but I can't make it look the way I like.

Well, we all know my feelings on the Triple Stormraven formation from White Dwarf.

 DarthOvious wrote:
Well, we all know my feelings on the Triple Stormraven formation from White Dwarf.

What are your thoughts?

I've been thinking... So far ive found the SG star with 8-10SG and a priest and/or Dante is incredibly durable. But it still needs a distraction from heavy weapons. A vindi is a great distraction unit but not always ideal if you have expensive units closing in on the opponent due to scatter. So having a knight paladin march along with them may not be a bad shout.
-Ap3 main weapon so not too dangerous with any misplaced scatter.
-Fast as the Sanguinary Guard to keep pace.
-Can deal with the MCs that prove a threat to non-Dante led SG.
-Takes the ap2 heavy firepower off the SG.

As a BA and SoB player I don't believe BA are better. More build options for BA, but Sisters can out together a mean TAC list which will perform well against multiple different builds of other armies, which is the criteria I use to judge an armies 'strength'.

Still, it's s better book and fun to play.

D

 DarthOvious wrote:

I played a Nurgle army the other weak, which I won really comfortably. When you get the charge on them and you will because they are mostly slow, then you'll wipe them out. In that Game I lost a total of 4 Death Company and a Death Company Dreadnought.

I played my mates nurgle (2000 points)...and all I can say is blight grenades absolutely ruined me....especially the DC, no extra attacks on the charges makes a big big difference!

EDIT: I feel like a lot of people here are expecting some sort of broken "I win" unit/combination that some armies have... just because we haven't got that doesn't mean we can't be competitive, its just finding the right balance of the right units I think then things will start to get better.

sm3g wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

I played a Nurgle army the other weak, which I won really comfortably. When you get the charge on them and you will because they are mostly slow, then you'll wipe them out. In that Game I lost a total of 4 Death Company and a Death Company Dreadnought.

I played my mates nurgle (2000 points)...and all I can say is blight grenades absolutely ruined me....especially the DC, no extra attacks on the charges makes a big big difference!

EDIT: I feel like a lot of people here are expecting some sort of broken "I win" unit/combination that some armies have... just because we haven't got that doesn't mean we can't be competitive, its just finding the right balance of the right units I think then things will start to get better.

You only lose the +1 attack bonus. You still get rage and the close combat weapon weapon bonus if you have pistol and cc weapon. That should still leave you with 4 attacks on the charge.

 cycluv wrote:

sm3g wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

I played a Nurgle army the other weak, which I won really comfortably. When you get the charge on them and you will because they are mostly slow, then you'll wipe them out. In that Game I lost a total of 4 Death Company and a Death Company Dreadnought.

I played my mates nurgle (2000 points)...and all I can say is blight grenades absolutely ruined me....especially the DC, no extra attacks on the charges makes a big big difference!

EDIT: I feel like a lot of people here are expecting some sort of broken "I win" unit/combination that some armies have... just because we haven't got that doesn't mean we can't be competitive, its just finding the right balance of the right units I think then things will start to get better.

You only lose the +1 attack bonus. You still get rage and the close combat weapon weapon bonus if you have pistol and cc weapon. That should still leave you with 4 attacks on the charge.

I was under the impression you didn't get any bonus attacks for charging (so that means 3 if you have the pistol and cc weapon)...
End pretty sure I am right - Defensive grenades mean models charging this unit "receive no bonus attacks for charging" rage just grants the units 2 bonus attacks for charging instead of 1...

That's why you shoot the nurgle guys.

Martel732 wrote:
That's why you shoot the nurgle guys.

Literally his whole damn army had them. Wasn't an option, I do not have enough guns to do that

I zogging hate the nurgle. I know your pain.
My mate has a nurgle /daemon mix army with summoning spam and it's absolutely brutal.
DC charge daemons. SG charge plague marine's. That's the only thing I've learned and that sometimes work's.
Also sod BSF if fighting them. You dont need the initiative but ObSec is absolutely necessary.

sm3g wrote:

 cycluv wrote:

sm3g wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

I played a Nurgle army the other weak, which I won really comfortably. When you get the charge on them and you will because they are mostly slow, then you'll wipe them out. In that Game I lost a total of 4 Death Company and a Death Company Dreadnought.

I played my mates nurgle (2000 points)...and all I can say is blight grenades absolutely ruined me....especially the DC, no extra attacks on the charges makes a big big difference!

EDIT: I feel like a lot of people here are expecting some sort of broken "I win" unit/combination that some armies have... just because we haven't got that doesn't mean we can't be competitive, its just finding the right balance of the right units I think then things will start to get better.

You only lose the +1 attack bonus. You still get rage and the close combat weapon weapon bonus if you have pistol and cc weapon. That should still leave you with 4 attacks on the charge.

I was under the impression you didn't get any bonus attacks for charging (so that means 3 if you have the pistol and cc weapon)...
End pretty sure I am right - Defensive grenades mean models charging this unit "receive no bonus attacks for charging" rage just grants the units 2 bonus attacks for charging instead of 1...

It states 'do not gain any bonus attacks from charging (pg 49)'...if you flip to page 49 there is an entry for '+1 charge bonus'. This is the only bonus attack the defensive grenade rule is referring to.

I am wondering what you guys think about Sanguinary Guard vs. Death Company squads to accompany Dante as warlord.

What would you choose for a TAC list, and what would you say are the benefits/drawbacks of each?

 cycluv wrote:

sm3g wrote:

 cycluv wrote:

sm3g wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

I played a Nurgle army the other weak, which I won really comfortably. When you get the charge on them and you will because they are mostly slow, then you'll wipe them out. In that Game I lost a total of 4 Death Company and a Death Company Dreadnought.

I played my mates nurgle (2000 points)...and all I can say is blight grenades absolutely ruined me....especially the DC, no extra attacks on the charges makes a big big difference!

EDIT: I feel like a lot of people here are expecting some sort of broken "I win" unit/combination that some armies have... just because we haven't got that doesn't mean we can't be competitive, its just finding the right balance of the right units I think then things will start to get better.

You only lose the +1 attack bonus. You still get rage and the close combat weapon weapon bonus if you have pistol and cc weapon. That should still leave you with 4 attacks on the charge.

I was under the impression you didn't get any bonus attacks for charging (so that means 3 if you have the pistol and cc weapon)...
End pretty sure I am right - Defensive grenades mean models charging this unit "receive no bonus attacks for charging" rage just grants the units 2 bonus attacks for charging instead of 1...

It states 'do not gain any bonus attacks from charging (pg 49)'...if you flip to page 49 there is an entry for '+1 charge bonus'. This is the only bonus attack the defensive grenade rule is referring to.

And Rage isn't just a different +1...it turns that +1 into a +2..then defensive grenades turn it into a 0...there is even a thread here on Dakka in YMDC

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
I am wondering what you guys think about Sanguinary Guard vs. Death Company squads to accompany Dante as warlord.

What would you choose for a TAC list, and what would you say are the benefits/drawbacks of each?

I would take Sang Guard - but I would also put a priest with them.
Better Save
Already come with power weapons.
Look cooler next to Dante (Sorry but this is actually a thing for me )
Chapter Banner - An extra attack is always fun.
Standard way to take these guys seems to be 1 Pistol, 1 Fist, 1 Banner, rest regular.

Sticking him with a death company they have a worse save.
Either Dante won't get FNP or a priest will be somewhat wasted.
Only plus side is more attacks so potentially more killy once you get into combat in this situation IMO. (Potentially - chapter banner mentioned above could change that).

I think points wise you come out on top with Sang Guard too (once you factor in special weapons and jump packs on the DC to make them comparable).

In a vacuum, sanguinary guard are worse than death company. DC are better on their own, and can take on almost any target without much of an issue. Even if they die, theyre not THAT expensive.

Sanguinary guard, however, make a better escort for characters and a perfect home for sanguinary priests. You do have to be more careful about what you assault, as massed 3++ or even 4++ will throw a wrench in their ability to do damage, and high initiative ap2 (tyrants, princes, etc) will waste your investment.

I agree,

If I am after stand alone units I'd take death company, if I am after an escort id take sanguinary guard.

That's great advice, thanks!

What would you say is the SG optimal unit size? I'm thinking between 5-9 depending on size of game. Accompanied by Dante and S. Priest.

How would you deploy them?

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
That's great advice, thanks!

What would you say is the SG optimal unit size? I'm thinking between 5-9 depending on size of game. Accompanied by Dante and S. Priest.

How would you deploy them?

You want them big enough to make a good impact, but not so big that your opponent focuses everything he has on them, even 5 Sang guard + dante + priest is upwards of 500 points i think which is a fair chunk.

Deploying them is where I am not very helpful, I am still toying with different ideas... People say don't deep strike so maybe use that as a general guide

Deep striking should always be AN option, particularly against armies with only a few high powered shooting units.

5 is the optimal number if you dont want to seriously overcommit to them. With dante and a priest theyre still decently durable and hit hard. If you want a death star, 8-10 works well too. Also with Dante and a priest, of course. Sometimes also either a BA valour captain or a SM shield eternal chapter master.

How do you guys split between Swords and Axes with the Sanguinary Guard.
I haven't been using them for a while but seeing all the positive comments makes me want to try them again.
My current SG of five guys has two Swords, two Axes and a Fist.
The Sanguinary Priest with them also has Sword (or Valour's Edge in the new book I guess).

I think it all depends on if you take the +1 I bonus formation. In which case, mainly swords. I always take 1 fist per 5 (or 2 if 7-9 strong), so not in as much need of ap2, so only 1 axe on top of that.
In my 4 games with the new dex so far, I've used the following combinations, always with a priest and banner, twice with Dante:
5 man - 3 sword, 1 axe, 1 fist
8 man - 5 sword, 1 axe, 2 fist
10 man - 6 sword, 2 axe, 2 fist
I always run the +1I formation from the book though.

 cycluv wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
Well, we all know my feelings on the Triple Stormraven formation from White Dwarf.

What are your thoughts?

I love it. I find it surprisingly effective in my meta. Don't get me wrong, I'm not steam rolling over everybody but it does work to a certain degree. The main risk is failing to bring the formation on first turn, other than that it's great.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sm3g wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:

I played a Nurgle army the other weak, which I won really comfortably. When you get the charge on them and you will because they are mostly slow, then you'll wipe them out. In that Game I lost a total of 4 Death Company and a Death Company Dreadnought.

I played my mates nurgle (2000 points)...and all I can say is blight grenades absolutely ruined me....especially the DC, no extra attacks on the charges makes a big big difference!

EDIT: I feel like a lot of people here are expecting some sort of broken "I win" unit/combination that some armies have... just because we haven't got that doesn't mean we can't be competitive, its just finding the right balance of the right units I think then things will start to get better.

If I remember correctly they count as defensive and assault grenades. So it's a case of losing the extra charging attacks. Sure it's a pain in the ass, but if we are talking about plague marines then they are not very likely to give a lot of damage back either. I believe we still get the upper hand on the charge and in combat since we have the extra CCW for an extra attack. Also squads like Death Company can be kitted out with more power weapon goodness than the Plague Marines if I'm correct. However it does put the brakes on to a certain extent and makes it more favourable towards the Plague Marines.

There is some really good stuff being said on here imo, would be very helpful for new players or those coming back to the hobby.
I hate to ask on an open discussion thread, and I know I kinda made it this thread slightly too focused on my old list, when my intention was for it to be an open discussion thread.But I wondered if you guys had any feedback on my list as the thread I had posted has gone a bit stagnant?
Thanks

InsTincT_OP wrote:
....But I wondered if you guys had any feedback on my list as the thread I had posted has gone a bit stagnant?
Thanks

Can you post the exact list you're talking about?