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Warhammer 40k is one of my favourite games, because of the level of creativity involved in the game. I can come up with a chapter/craftworld/ork clan of my own and design a color scheme unique to it.

I can give units and individual models differing weapons, and pose them as I like. I can kit out a character for entirely different battlefield roles. You get the picture.

I've tried to get into some of the other big tabletop games, like Warmachine and X-Wing. But I've never been a fan of Star Wars, and more importantly, don't find anywhere near the same level of creativity allowed in Warmachine/Hordes.

I've heard that there's some in Dropzone Commander, so I am looking into that.

But are there any more miniatures games out there with significant levels of unit and/or model customization?

It'd be nice to have another tabletop game to play when I want to take a breather from 40k.

I personally don't think Warmachine/Hordes get enough credit in the creativity field. PP themselves are amazing with it, they encourage alternate schemes and conversions but the playerbase seem to ignore it in favour of the pure game mechanics.

Off the top of my head two good examples from their magazine are a painting tutorial where they did a Skorne model up in a green scheme instead of the red and showed you how to make the green look like malachite.

As well there was a minion army used in a battle report where every single model had some conversion work done so that it looked like they had scavenged weapons and equipment from various places.


Realistically though every game (with the possible exception of x wing and historicals) allows you to paint your own scheme. Conversions become harder with games like Warmachine and Infinity where models are full metal or in games like Flames of War, Dystopian Wars or Dropzone Commander with the scale makes weapon swaps less important. These games aren't less creative, they are just a bit different in how they are creative.

All in all though I find the most creativity is related to the fluff of a setting. Warmachine, having started as a D20 campaign setting way back in the day, has some amazing fluff that also seems to be overlooked. Infinity has some very good fluff as well, with a surprising amount of depth to it.

 jonolikespie wrote:



Realistically though every game (with the possible exception of x wing and historicals) allows you to paint your own scheme.

I humbly submit this thread as an example of alternative paint-jobs in X-Wing (not my work).

I far as I know (which isn't very far at all) nothing comes close to 40K, when it comes to having options with an actual impact on the game beyond the aesthetic.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:



Realistically though every game (with the possible exception of x wing and historicals) allows you to paint your own scheme.

I humbly submit this thread as an example of alternative paint-jobs in X-Wing (not my work).

I far as I know (which isn't very far at all) nothing comes close to 40K, when it comes to having options with an actual impact on the game beyond the aesthetic.

I'd say it's the exact opposite in terms of gameplay with the options actually. In 40k a lascannon, a melta or a plasmagun in your tac squad gives you lots of decisions but on the table they aren't that different from each other. It's still a tac squad but with a special weapon that isn't that different from the next.

Having a shotgun or a rifle on one of your guys in Infinity isn't that big of a decision either but add a medikit or forward observer skill to that equation and that can make a big difference in the game. In Warmachine the difference between the Jack with two melee weapons and a melee weapons and a gun can be massive, and changing your caster will change the way your entire list plays.

I'd say that nothing comes close to the amount of options you have in 40k, but most of those options (especially when you are trying to play competitively and dismiss the sub par ones) are entirely superficial.

 jonolikespie wrote:
. In Warmachine the difference between the Jack with two melee weapons and a melee weapons and a gun can be massive, and changing your caster will change the way your entire list plays.

I'd say that nothing comes close to the amount of options you have in 40k, but most of those options (especially when you are trying to play competitively and dismiss the sub par ones) are entirely superficial.

"In 40K the difference between the dreadnought with two melee weapons and a melee weapon and a gun can be massive, and changing your HQ will change the way your entire list plays.

I'd say that nothing comes close to the amount of options you have in WM/H, but most of those options (especially when you are trying to play competitively and dismiss the sub par ones) are entirely superficial."

I think you are underestimating the effects of having different combinations of weapons in 40K.

I am not arguing that 40K is a better game than WM/H (far from it), nor I am trying to say that 40K isn't a bloated unbalanced mess, nor am I proposing that having a gazillion options is automatically a good thing.
I just think you somewhat misrepresent the impact of some of those options.

Anyway, GW can suck my Proton Torpedo. I'm primarily playing X-Wing now.

I'm pretty sure the choice between Captain and Chaplain is meaningless, Captain and Chapter Master is a single orbital strike and an stat or two, and the choice between any of them and a psyker is much bigger, but still won't affect your overall tactics the same way the choice between casters will in Warmachine. The same exact list with a different caster can change what kind of fight you are fighting, changing the game from say assassination run to board control, without changing anything else.

Then again, a lascannon and a flamer have very different targets, and a list that has footslogging tac marines with lascannons will play differently from drop pod flamer/melta spam, but in each list you still have 4 bolter marines for every special weapon.
One Jack in WM/H might be useful for clearing charge lanes, while another weapon loadout on the same chassis is useless at that but great at killing tough targets, and the next is good for disabling an enemies abilities. Weapon choices on a dread are similar, one for anti tank, one for anti infantry, one for anti MC (is that a thing or does anti tank fill that role?) but ultimately the choices all come down to how best to kill X. That's the problem with choice in 40k, all you are doing is bringing the best gun for the target in front of you.

Firstly, check out In The Emperor's Name. It's a 40k-themed skirmish ruleset (5-15 minis per side), and as you build every statline yourself (there is a free roster builder that does the sums for you) you can completely customise your team. Want an Imperial Guard vet that is a crack shot but has a recurring leg wound? Buff his shoot score, drop his move value. Want Marines as tough as they appear in the fluff? Easily done, but your opponent then brings 5 Orks for each Tactical Marine. Want an Eldar Psyker that is also skilled in Combat? Again, you can do it with these rules.

http://iten-game.org/
It's free and you can use your existing models, so there's nothing to lose.

Beyond that, take a look at Deadzone: It has a campaign system, but there's nothing to stop you using the exp upgrades to just build a custom squad in friendly one-off games. Again, the low model count realy helps with allowing you to give each model a story.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I personally don't think Warmachine/Hordes get enough credit in the creativity field. PP themselves are amazing with it, they encourage alternate schemes and conversions but the playerbase seem to ignore it in favour of the pure game mechanics.

I noticed this myself but I don't mind it, it has less confusion as to what's what and focuses on the fact it's a game. Similar to how Magic has fluff and backstory, but nobody really cares about it.

If you are looking for unit customization, have you tried Tomorrow's War. It is a great little game that is set in the near future rather than a far away future. The game allows you to create the rules for whatever force you want to use in the game. Whether they be an alien empire, or a ragged earth militia.

What you're looking for are rulesets that are typically referred to as "Generic" or having "unit creation" mechanics. Most of these games are designed for folks to use whatever miniatures they want, vastly opening up your options for minis and customization, though some do have their own minis ranges as well.

Most of the games I play are this way. Here are a few suggestions:

-Song of Blades and Heroes: Fantasy warband skirmish (The writer "Ganesha Games" has also made variants of this ruleset in other genres)
-Tomorrow's War: Hard: realistic sci-fi platoon skirmish
-Of Gods and Mortals: Mythic Platoon size warband skirmish (also works well for fantasy)
-WarEngine: Generic sci-fantasy platoon skirmish with light vehicles. (free at the Warengine yahoo group) was the rules engine used for the now-defunct "Shockforce" and "GWAR" games.
-In The Emperor's Name. 40k warband skirmish (works well for other pulp sci-fi). I recommend. the second edition here: https://thegamesshed.wordpress.com/2011/07/02/in-the-emperors-name/ The third edition at iten-game.org is unfinished.
-Blasters and Bulkheads. Pulp-Sci-Fi Platoon game. Based on the well respected "Supersystem" superhero rules.
- In Her Majesty's Name. Steampunk/Victoriana Skirmish game.
-Full Thrust. Classic Space Combat.
-Battletech. Quite possibly the most customizable game in existence. You can build anything from a trooper to a starship across the various Battletech Universe games that range from RPG's all the way up to starship battles.
-Mech Attack: Battletech-style games with a tiny fraction of the rules. A favorite of mine.
-Nuclear Reniassance- Mad Max'ish gonzo post-apoc fun. The core rules are free from Ramshackle games and the expansion is a reasonably priced PDF. They have a minis range and there are many other makers of post apoc figs and vehicles.

There are others as well. Let me know what genres you are interested in and I'll let you know more.
The other advantage of a "generic" ruleset is that by buying the figs you want, you'll usually spend alot less than you would on 40k and if you don't like a given ruleset, you can always switch to different one. This makes it very inexpensive to have and maintain a second game alongside 40k. I have forces that I have built for some generic games that are now on their 5th set of rules.