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Hi folks,

So I just read through the new necron codex and I've come to the conclusion that the tin'eads got a pretty nice book! Good on 'em! As I was reading the Transcendent C'tan entry I couldn't help but feel like I've seen this unit before... In WHFB!

The random (shooting) attacks, the monstrous statline, the deathsplosion is even similar to falling over... All of it fits! And just like the Giant, the T C'tan manages to be a good unit without being too good. It's not an auto-take, but it looks to be really fun to play with and against.

I gotta say, as an ork player, I'm jealous the tin'eads get 'Giants' and we don't.

What do you guys think of the new T C'tan? I'd like to know how many of you are considering fielding one of these in future games. Non-necron players, are you looking forward to or dreading the thought of facing these shards now?

I dislike the fact that our main stick in Apoc has been toned down to "not even worth taking in Apoc", but, granted I don't play apoc often, that doesn't matter THAT much. That being said, I like what they did with it. It's a cool model, and now had a still decent statline, the new powers which are cool, and has a bit of it's own flavor. I'll be using it in future games just because it can Deep Strike, which alone is awesome.

Also, people can't complain when you use it, and you won't lose friends either.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I dislike the fact that our main stick in Apoc has been toned down to "not even worth taking in Apoc", but, granted I don't play apoc often, that doesn't matter THAT much. That being said, I like what they did with it. It's a cool model, and now had a still decent statline, the new powers which are cool, and has a bit of it's own flavor. I'll be using it in future games just because it can Deep Strike, which alone is awesome.

Also, people can't complain when you use it, and you won't lose friends either.

Hey, on the bright side, the obelisk is better now, isn't it?

I'm very, very tempted to loot me a T C'tan...

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I dislike the fact that our main stick in Apoc has been toned down to "not even worth taking in Apoc", but, granted I don't play apoc often, that doesn't matter THAT much. That being said, I like what they did with it. It's a cool model, and now had a still decent statline, the new powers which are cool, and has a bit of it's own flavor. I'll be using it in future games just because it can Deep Strike, which alone is awesome.

Also, people can't complain when you use it, and you won't lose friends either.

Hey, on the bright side, the obelisk is better now, isn't it?

I'm very, very tempted to loot me a T C'tan...

The Obelisk is actually pretty good for its points. Not quite Apoc ready though, but I like the idea of LOW in regular games, and GW seems to be making them a bit more tame as to not disrupt game balance, which I'm okay with. If only they would do the same for Imperial Knights.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I dislike the fact that our main stick in Apoc has been toned down to "not even worth taking in Apoc", but, granted I don't play apoc often, that doesn't matter THAT much. That being said, I like what they did with it. It's a cool model, and now had a still decent statline, the new powers which are cool, and has a bit of it's own flavor. I'll be using it in future games just because it can Deep Strike, which alone is awesome.

Also, people can't complain when you use it, and you won't lose friends either.

Hey, on the bright side, the obelisk is better now, isn't it?

I'm very, very tempted to loot me a T C'tan...

The Obelisk is actually pretty good for its points. Not quite Apoc ready though, but I like the idea of LOW in regular games, and GW seems to be making them a bit more tame as to not disrupt game balance, which I'm okay with. If only they would do the same for Imperial Knights.

I'm curious actually, what is it about knights that you think is OTT? I've never played against one before. Is it the Destroyer melee?

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I dislike the fact that our main stick in Apoc has been toned down to "not even worth taking in Apoc", but, granted I don't play apoc often, that doesn't matter THAT much. That being said, I like what they did with it. It's a cool model, and now had a still decent statline, the new powers which are cool, and has a bit of it's own flavor. I'll be using it in future games just because it can Deep Strike, which alone is awesome.

Also, people can't complain when you use it, and you won't lose friends either.

Hey, on the bright side, the obelisk is better now, isn't it?

I'm very, very tempted to loot me a T C'tan...

The Obelisk is actually pretty good for its points. Not quite Apoc ready though, but I like the idea of LOW in regular games, and GW seems to be making them a bit more tame as to not disrupt game balance, which I'm okay with. If only they would do the same for Imperial Knights.

I'm curious actually, what is it about knights that you think is OTT? I've never played against one before. Is it the Destroyer melee?

Paying for a 365 (ish?) point model, that moves 12, ignores everything on the damage table, has a 4+ invuln on one facing, is armor 13, fights better than most things in CC, which it also just insta gibs most things and kicks tanks open, most things can't hurt it in CC, and has rather good guns. It's extremely undercosted in my opinion, and GW nerfed all of my super heavies. So, in return, bring IKs down to scale.

It's one of those units that the most inexperienced player could bring and still have it do well, because you point and click with it.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I dislike the fact that our main stick in Apoc has been toned down to "not even worth taking in Apoc", but, granted I don't play apoc often, that doesn't matter THAT much. That being said, I like what they did with it. It's a cool model, and now had a still decent statline, the new powers which are cool, and has a bit of it's own flavor. I'll be using it in future games just because it can Deep Strike, which alone is awesome.

Also, people can't complain when you use it, and you won't lose friends either.

Hey, on the bright side, the obelisk is better now, isn't it?

I'm very, very tempted to loot me a T C'tan...

The Obelisk is actually pretty good for its points. Not quite Apoc ready though, but I like the idea of LOW in regular games, and GW seems to be making them a bit more tame as to not disrupt game balance, which I'm okay with. If only they would do the same for Imperial Knights.

I'm curious actually, what is it about knights that you think is OTT? I've never played against one before. Is it the Destroyer melee?

Paying for a 365 (ish?) point model, that moves 12, ignores everything on the damage table, has a 4+ invuln on one facing, is armor 13, fights better than most things in CC, which it also just insta gibs most things and kicks tanks open, most things can't hurt it in CC, and has rather good guns. It's extremely undercosted in my opinion, and GW nerfed all of my super heavies. So, in return, bring IKs down to scale.

It's one of those units that the most inexperienced player could bring and still have it do well, because you point and click with it.

It really isn't that good. Here's another perspective:

It's 385 points. It can move 2" if it's in terrain (fast I know), Ignores everything except "explodes" on the damage table, only has a 4+ save and only on one facing, has the same armor and twice as many hullpoints as a Predator (for well over twice the cost), fights better than some things (but I certainly would not say MOST!) in CC, and has less firepower, armor, and hull points than its equivalent points in Leman Russes.

So, the new t-c'tan replaces the apoc version, does it not? Can you take the apoc t-c'tan in any capacity, as a lord of war? Or has it changed entirely to fit in with the new necron codex HS version?

That seems like a MASSIVE change.

Somewhat off topic - knights are still pretty solid. They only roll 2" in terrain if you roll triple 1s, and in comparing them to a leman russ squadron - if you take a knight v. equivalent points in leman russes, I'd bet large sums of money on the knight coming out on top. These things don't happen in a vacuum, granted, but they're still (generally) fast, good saves, shoot good, hit hard, and are hard to stop. About the only way for orks to stop them is to hit them with deff dreads or bully boyz, or lots of tankbustas (and hope I don't fail fear tests), and even if I come out on top it's somewhat of a pyrrhic victory. What isn't D-chopped in half or stomped off the table also has to contend with the mega-blast explosion.

Uh...the Giant in WHFB is bottom tier power-wise, the T-C'tan is still mediocre.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I dislike the fact that our main stick in Apoc has been toned down to "not even worth taking in Apoc", but, granted I don't play apoc often, that doesn't matter THAT much. That being said, I like what they did with it. It's a cool model, and now had a still decent statline, the new powers which are cool, and has a bit of it's own flavor. I'll be using it in future games just because it can Deep Strike, which alone is awesome.

Also, people can't complain when you use it, and you won't lose friends either.

Hey, on the bright side, the obelisk is better now, isn't it?

I'm very, very tempted to loot me a T C'tan...

The Obelisk is actually pretty good for its points. Not quite Apoc ready though, but I like the idea of LOW in regular games, and GW seems to be making them a bit more tame as to not disrupt game balance, which I'm okay with. If only they would do the same for Imperial Knights.

I'm curious actually, what is it about knights that you think is OTT? I've never played against one before. Is it the Destroyer melee?

Paying for a 365 (ish?) point model, that moves 12, ignores everything on the damage table, has a 4+ invuln on one facing, is armor 13, fights better than most things in CC, which it also just insta gibs most things and kicks tanks open, most things can't hurt it in CC, and has rather good guns. It's extremely undercosted in my opinion, and GW nerfed all of my super heavies. So, in return, bring IKs down to scale.

It's one of those units that the most inexperienced player could bring and still have it do well, because you point and click with it.

Interesting, I've always felt they were pretty well-costed for what they brought to the table. It could just be my weakness for giant robots though - I do have 2 Gorkanauts and they are the only fully finished models in my ork army as of right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
So, the new t-c'tan replaces the apoc version, does it not? Can you take the apoc t-c'tan in any capacity, as a lord of war? Or has it changed entirely to fit in with the new necron codex HS version?

That seems like a MASSIVE change.

Somewhat off topic - knights are still pretty solid. They only roll 2" in terrain if you roll triple 1s, and in comparing them to a leman russ squadron - if you take a knight v. equivalent points in leman russes, I'd bet large sums of money on the knight coming out on top. These things don't happen in a vacuum, granted, but they're still (generally) fast, good saves, shoot good, hit hard, and are hard to stop. About the only way for orks to stop them is to hit them with deff dreads or bully boyz, or lots of tankbustas (and hope I don't fail fear tests), and even if I come out on top it's somewhat of a pyrrhic victory. What isn't D-chopped in half or stomped off the table also has to contend with the mega-blast explosion.

They basically removed the old T C'tan and replaced it with a very different, weaker unit that has the same name and uses the same model. It's a different unit type, has different rules, etc. It's one of the bigger changes in the new book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Uh...the Giant in WHFB is bottom tier power-wise, the T-C'tan is still mediocre.

Shush you, Giants will always be top tier in my heart.

 Mumblez wrote:

Interesting, I've always felt they were pretty well-costed for what they brought to the table. It could just be my weakness for giant robots though - I do have 2 Gorkanauts and they are the only fully finished models in my ork army as of right now.

I mean, the Gorkanaughts are fine. They aren't super heavies with D weapon CC attacks that people can spam in low point games. I would have less of an issue with IK if they counted as LOW and you could only take one in an army, or if other Super Heavy options could actually compete against it (Tesseract Vault {550 pts}, Obelisk {300 pts}).

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

Interesting, I've always felt they were pretty well-costed for what they brought to the table. It could just be my weakness for giant robots though - I do have 2 Gorkanauts and they are the only fully finished models in my ork army as of right now.

I mean, the Gorkanaughts are fine. They aren't super heavies with D weapon CC attacks that people can spam in low point games. I would have less of an issue with IK if they counted as LOW and you could only take one in an army, or if other Super Heavy options could actually compete against it (Tesseract Vault {550 pts}, Obelisk {300 pts}).

Oh, I wasn't getting at the 'nauts' power level, I just meant I love big stompy robots.

You make a good point about the competition, they don't really have any, do they? I suppose that can be chalked up to the IK being unique in that it is the only affordable super-heavy walker, but still.

 Mumblez wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Uh...the Giant in WHFB is bottom tier power-wise, the T-C'tan is still mediocre.

Shush you, Giants will always be top tier in my heart.

Oh, I absolutely like the model and it's random but funny way. I have a Giant ridden by 5 little Night Goblins converted and frequently run it The problem is that, sadly, it's a rather bad model.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Uh...the Giant in WHFB is bottom tier power-wise, the T-C'tan is still mediocre.

Shush you, Giants will always be top tier in my heart.

Oh, I absolutely like the model and it's random but funny way. I have a Giant ridden by 5 little Night Goblins converted and frequently run it The problem is that, sadly, it's a rather bad model.

I wasn't around when giants were first introduced so I have to wonder, were they ever really good?

They definitely aren't holding up well in 'modern' WHFB where there's tons of artillery and monsters that eat 'em for breakfast.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

Interesting, I've always felt they were pretty well-costed for what they brought to the table. It could just be my weakness for giant robots though - I do have 2 Gorkanauts and they are the only fully finished models in my ork army as of right now.

I mean, the Gorkanaughts are fine. They aren't super heavies with D weapon CC attacks that people can spam in low point games. I would have less of an issue with IK if they counted as LOW and you could only take one in an army, or if other Super Heavy options could actually compete against it (Tesseract Vault {550 pts}, Obelisk {300 pts}).

spam in low point games? no offense man but I think you define "low points" differnt from me. I hear "low points" and I think, 500, 750 maybe 1000 points TOPS. you're only getting ONE IK into one of those lists. an IK costs 370 points, and unless you have 3 of em (which is 1110 points minimum) you're gonna need some sort of allies. which is 740 points. thus there is no way you're spamming them in a 750 point list. and a 1000 point list would basicly consist of 2 IKs, and then some token HQ and troop set up. it's just not pratical to spam them in a low points game.

Knights are fine, they just drastically shift the meta wherever they're at. The necrons will do the same, due to the c'tans, wraiths, and people needing more heavy weapons(str8 or higher) to nullify their reanimation somewhat. The age of str7 dominance is at an end.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Knights are fine, they just drastically shift the meta wherever they're at. The necrons will do the same, due to the c'tans, wraiths, and people needing more heavy weapons(str8 or higher) to nullify their reanimation somewhat. The age of str7 dominance is at an end.

Knights are fine in one's and sometimes two's. As an army of five, they tend to take an absolute dump on most "TAC" lists and even a lot of power lists.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Knights are fine, they just drastically shift the meta wherever they're at. The necrons will do the same, due to the c'tans, wraiths, and people needing more heavy weapons(str8 or higher) to nullify their reanimation somewhat. The age of str7 dominance is at an end.

I think this is ultimatly it, a lot of people take mostly S7 for their anti vehicle weapons. and vehicle heavy lists of ANY stripe, tend to throw that off

BrianDavion wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Knights are fine, they just drastically shift the meta wherever they're at. The necrons will do the same, due to the c'tans, wraiths, and people needing more heavy weapons(str8 or higher) to nullify their reanimation somewhat. The age of str7 dominance is at an end.

I think this is ultimatly it, a lot of people take mostly S7 for their anti vehicle weapons. and vehicle heavy lists of ANY stripe, tend to throw that off

While I agree that high AV spam kind of breaks the meta, I don't think it's enough to bring more S8+ against knights. I feel like it's thei ion shield save that makes them really durable. If you can get around that, even with S7, you'll have yourself a dead knight soon.

 Mumblez wrote:

What do you guys think of the new T C'tan? I'd like to know how many of you are considering fielding one of these in future games. Non-necron players, are you looking forward to or dreading the thought of facing these shards now?

I don't see the appeal of the current C'tan, least of all the Transcendent version. I could be wrong, but it just seems insanely expensive for what it brings.


In terms of facing one, my IG aren't too bothered. Immunity to lasguns is a slight pain, but massed fire from plasmaguns, autocannons, multilasers and whatever else I happen to have available should bring it down without too much trouble. I'll admit it would terrify my infantry-guard, though it's not like I needed another reason to never play them.

My Dark Eldar will give you their counter-tactics as soon as they stop sniggering.

 vipoid wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

What do you guys think of the new T C'tan? I'd like to know how many of you are considering fielding one of these in future games. Non-necron players, are you looking forward to or dreading the thought of facing these shards now?

I don't see the appeal of the current C'tan, least of all the Transcendent version. I could be wrong, but it just seems insanely expensive for what it brings.


In terms of facing one, my IG aren't too bothered. Immunity to lasguns is a slight pain, but massed fire from plasmaguns, autocannons, multilasers and whatever else I happen to have available should bring it down without too much trouble. I'll admit it would terrify my infantry-guard, though it's not like I needed another reason to never play them.

My Dark Eldar will give you their counter-tactics as soon as they stop sniggering.

Dark eldar poisons: so potent even energy beings in bodies made of metal will feel the pain!

There are a few C'tan combos that could be interesting. Bringing the Nightbringer and the Deceiver together should make for some fun times at close range: -2 Ld on enemy units and then Gaze of Death.

Then there's the Conclave of the Burning One formation that could be interesting. Taking the God shackle will make the C'tan T8 (I know, I know, the DE are still laughing ) and the other Cryptek can grab the Veil of Darkness to get the unit closer to the enemy and set up a Turn 2 charge.

I like the powers they have. Unreliable as they are, they all seem pretty decent. Some more anti-armor would've been nice, but that's why you bring actual necrons - to dismantle the tanks so your C'tan can play with the stragglers! The other Heavy Support options didn't seem all that great (or as fun as a Transcendent ) so if I ever play 'crons I'll most likely be bringing 3 T C'tans in every list I make.

 Mumblez wrote:


Dark eldar poisons: so potent even energy beings in bodies made of metal will feel the pain!

There are a few C'tan combos that could be interesting. Bringing the Nightbringer and the Deceiver together should make for some fun times at close range: -2 Ld on enemy units and then Gaze of Death.

That's a lot of points to spend on -2 Ld though.

 Mumblez wrote:

Then there's the Conclave of the Burning One formation that could be interesting. Taking the God shackle will make the C'tan T8 (I know, I know, the DE are still laughing ) and the other Cryptek can grab the Veil of Darkness to get the unit closer to the enemy and set up a Turn 2 charge.

That one is indeed interesting.

 Mumblez wrote:

I like the powers they have. Unreliable as they are, they all seem pretty decent.

The trouble is, there's no target they're all decent against. It would be nice if you at least got to roll twice and pick which of the two rolled powers to use.

I never said any of these were good combos.

Yeah, a bit more control would've been nice. I mean, I would've liked rolling for the power and then picking a target once you know what you're using.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Mumblez wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I dislike the fact that our main stick in Apoc has been toned down to "not even worth taking in Apoc", but, granted I don't play apoc often, that doesn't matter THAT much. That being said, I like what they did with it. It's a cool model, and now had a still decent statline, the new powers which are cool, and has a bit of it's own flavor. I'll be using it in future games just because it can Deep Strike, which alone is awesome.

Also, people can't complain when you use it, and you won't lose friends either.

Hey, on the bright side, the obelisk is better now, isn't it?

I'm very, very tempted to loot me a T C'tan...

The Obelisk is actually pretty good for its points. Not quite Apoc ready though, but I like the idea of LOW in regular games, and GW seems to be making them a bit more tame as to not disrupt game balance, which I'm okay with. If only they would do the same for Imperial Knights.

I'm curious actually, what is it about knights that you think is OTT? I've never played against one before. Is it the Destroyer melee?

Paying for a 365 (ish?) point model, that moves 12, ignores everything on the damage table, has a 4+ invuln on one facing, is armor 13, fights better than most things in CC, which it also just insta gibs most things and kicks tanks open, most things can't hurt it in CC, and has rather good guns. It's extremely undercosted in my opinion, and GW nerfed all of my super heavies. So, in return, bring IKs down to scale.

It's one of those units that the most inexperienced player could bring and still have it do well, because you point and click with it.

You mean the Knights that can't really fight a smart horde army user or flyers? Sorry but the Knights are down to scale and very balanced versus the transcendent c'tans murder missile barrage and electric d slide

 Piroko wrote:

You mean the Knights that can't really fight a smart horde army user or flyers?

In an edition where maybe one army still uses a horde.

Also, there are quite a few armies that struggle against fliers - IKs are hardly unique in that regard.

 Piroko wrote:
Sorry but the Knights are down to scale and very balanced versus the transcendent c'tans murder missile barrage and electric d slide

Could you elaborate on what the 'murder missile barrage' and 'electric d slide' are? I'm looking at the T-C'tan rules, and I can't work out what you're referring to.

 vipoid wrote:

 Piroko wrote:

You mean the Knights that can't really fight a smart horde army user or flyers?

In an edition where maybe one army still uses a horde.

Also, there are quite a few armies that struggle against fliers - IKs are hardly unique in that regard.

 Piroko wrote:
Sorry but the Knights are down to scale and very balanced versus the transcendent c'tans murder missile barrage and electric d slide

Could you elaborate on what the 'murder missile barrage' and 'electric d slide' are? I'm looking at the T-C'tan rules, and I can't work out what you're referring to.

I think he's talking about the old Apoc T C'tan.

The Transcendent C'Tan isn't unique, which is interesting also.

I noticed with sadness that the Deceiver and the NightBringer are unique (one per army).

I was bummed.

Transcendent on the other hand is not.

T C'tan not being unique makes some sense: they're just a bunch of random C'tan shards thrown together.

 Piroko wrote:


You mean the Knights that can't really fight a smart horde army user or flyers? Sorry but the Knights are down to scale and very balanced versus the transcendent c'tans murder missile barrage and electric d slide

Which, is no longer an issue? They nerfed it to the point that we don't have a decent Super Heavy to fight that thing back now. Granted, I think it needed the nerf, but maybe not as bad as it got it.

well for a tournament, four of us are splitting up the components of the necron Codex and seeing what craziness we can create. One of those components was to be the C'Tan. so making the Nightbringer and Deceiver as Unique, means we have to use the Terrarct Vault just for points sake to try and stay in theme.

So that was why I got bummed by it. Kinda harshing our theme.