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 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Assault Marines are nigh worthless in an actual battle given their usage of chain weapons and short range pistols. The only ones that might be somewhat useful is the suicidal Death Company, what with completely throwing self preservation into the wind and thus constantly tanking hits until they finally bleed to death or get shot through the brain or spine. But outside of attacking Orks or Guardsmen, Assault Marines are nonsensical and merely fodder for the enemy's guns, and especially won't be useful as the Dark Angels will be the aggressor in any situation, which removes the Blood Angel's deepstrike advantage entirely.

But bumrush melee charges are always suicidal, see how effective the charges across the no man's land in WWI were in the face of LMG's.

But they are clearly very useful/effective within the setting of 40k, every faction except Tau use melee combatants regularly and in fact most "heroes" of those factions prefer melee.

Assault Marines are only useful when people are punting around the idiot ball/PIS.

Meanwhile all it takes to counter Assault Marines is a Devastator squad dug into fortifications equipped with plasma cannons and heavy bolters.

DA wanted to purge some genetic mishaps

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Assault Marines are nigh worthless in an actual battle given their usage of chain weapons and short range pistols. The only ones that might be somewhat useful is the suicidal Death Company, what with completely throwing self preservation into the wind and thus constantly tanking hits until they finally bleed to death or get shot through the brain or spine. But outside of attacking Orks or Guardsmen, Assault Marines are nonsensical and merely fodder for the enemy's guns, and especially won't be useful as the Dark Angels will be the aggressor in any situation, which removes the Blood Angel's deepstrike advantage entirely.

But bumrush melee charges are always suicidal, see how effective the charges across the no man's land in WWI were in the face of LMG's.

But they are clearly very useful/effective within the setting of 40k, every faction except Tau use melee combatants regularly and in fact most "heroes" of those factions prefer melee.

Assault Marines are only useful when people are punting around the idiot ball/PIS.

Meanwhile all it takes to counter Assault Marines is a Devastator squad dug into fortifications equipped with plasma cannons and heavy bolters.

Realistically sure, but very little of 40k is realistic. Within the setting of 40k, melee works very well. I'm not saying it is necessarily more effective than ranged weaponry, but it certainly isn't completely worthless as you imply.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Assault Marines are nigh worthless in an actual battle given their usage of chain weapons and short range pistols. The only ones that might be somewhat useful is the suicidal Death Company, what with completely throwing self preservation into the wind and thus constantly tanking hits until they finally bleed to death or get shot through the brain or spine. But outside of attacking Orks or Guardsmen, Assault Marines are nonsensical and merely fodder for the enemy's guns, and especially won't be useful as the Dark Angels will be the aggressor in any situation, which removes the Blood Angel's deepstrike advantage entirely.

But bumrush melee charges are always suicidal, see how effective the charges across the no man's land in WWI were in the face of LMG's.

But they are clearly very useful/effective within the setting of 40k, every faction except Tau use melee combatants regularly and in fact most "heroes" of those factions prefer melee.

Assault Marines are only useful when people are punting around the idiot ball/PIS.

Meanwhile all it takes to counter Assault Marines is a Devastator squad dug into fortifications equipped with plasma cannons and heavy bolters.

Realistically sure, but very little of 40k is realistic. Within the setting of 40k, melee works very well. I'm not saying it is necessarily more effective than ranged weaponry, but it certainly isn't completely worthless as you imply.

It's worthless outside of Plot Induced Stupidity. Assault Marines certainly make sense if they're just holding standard tactical weapons with chainswords or monomolecular blades used as backup, but hurling yourself at the enemy with just a pistol to shoot with is a tad daft.

The advantage of Blood Angel Assault Marines is also completely erased if the Ravenwing is in play, given their greater mobility.

Thatguyhsagun wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Caught them in the hall closet with some Necron strumpet.

It's not my fault. She told me she was 18.

One of the oldest, undying races in the universe...

18k*

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Assault Marines are nigh worthless in an actual battle given their usage of chain weapons and short range pistols. The only ones that might be somewhat useful is the suicidal Death Company, what with completely throwing self preservation into the wind and thus constantly tanking hits until they finally bleed to death or get shot through the brain or spine. But outside of attacking Orks or Guardsmen, Assault Marines are nonsensical and merely fodder for the enemy's guns, and especially won't be useful as the Dark Angels will be the aggressor in any situation, which removes the Blood Angel's deepstrike advantage entirely.

But bumrush melee charges are always suicidal, see how effective the charges across the no man's land in WWI were in the face of LMG's.

But they are clearly very useful/effective within the setting of 40k, every faction except Tau use melee combatants regularly and in fact most "heroes" of those factions prefer melee.

Assault Marines are only useful when people are punting around the idiot ball/PIS.

Meanwhile all it takes to counter Assault Marines is a Devastator squad dug into fortifications equipped with plasma cannons and heavy bolters.

Realistically sure, but very little of 40k is realistic. Within the setting of 40k, melee works very well. I'm not saying it is necessarily more effective than ranged weaponry, but it certainly isn't completely worthless as you imply.

It's worthless outside of Plot Induced Stupidity. Assault Marines certainly make sense if they're just holding standard tactical weapons with chainswords or monomolecular blades used as backup, but hurling yourself at the enemy with just a pistol to shoot with is a tad daft.

The advantage of Blood Angel Assault Marines is also completely erased if the Ravenwing is in play, given their greater mobility.

But I'm not just talking about assault marines. Eldar have several aspect shrines dedicated to melee combat, Tyranids have several genotypes dedicated to melee combat, a lot of Chaos daemons are dedicated to melee, most Orks love melee. You might think it is stupid, but melee combat is very prevalent and very effective within the setting. If 40k were realistic we would likely see very little actual ground combat, but we do.

Regardless, after reading your first post again I'm not sure you even read the OP. You immediately went into your description of who would win between Dark Angels and Blood Angels, and that isn't what the thread is about at all. So I'm not going to derail it any further.

It depends on how you get into melee combat. Melee for Warp Talons, Warp Spiders, Striking Scorpion, Tyranids, Orks, Psykers, Primarchs, Daemons, etc is acceptable/sensible as either you can teleport right into the enemy's face like Warp Talons and Spiders, or you have the shear numbers to take losses and not even notice, like Tyranids who drop on you in the billions.

Wow, this thread took a wild left hand turn and went south.

The OP's question was not 'who would win' but 'why would they fight'.

Sure they can fight. The game is designed that way. If you and your buddy happen to both field Spess Muhrines with monk robes, have at it! Dark Angels can fight Dark Angels, and BA can roflstomp BA. And Nids can fight Nids (Different hive fleet, different hive mind) and Tau can fight Tau, even if you don't rely on the questionable rationale of "well, they're Farsight Enclave"

Fluffwise all that has to happen is for the Administatum (read: Bureaucracy)'s right hand to be unaware of what it's left hand is doing. Dispatch different forces to different sides of the same warzone? Why not? Inquisitor manipulates Space Marines into beating the stuffing out of other Space Marines? Sure.

For who would win I refer you to Stan Lee: "Why ask such a stupid question? Whoever the author wants to win!"

Look kids, they're both Space Marines. Statlines are equivalent, except for a few named characters who may or may not be present. Equipment has differences, but their core armories are similar. It'd come down more to who had greater forces, to include air power, space fleet, allies and logistics.

Leadership and tactics at the tactical/operational/strategic levels would probably ultimately decide the outcome. At least they would locally, until the Chapter Masters and the Segmentum fleet showed up to put an end to all this adolescent hormone-driven nonsense.

Short of an outright rebellion such as Lufgt Huron and his Astral Claws there's no good fluff reason for major chapters such as BA and DA to engage in a long-standing shooting war.

But don't let that stop you. It's a biiiig galaxy out there. If you want to go with Successor Chapters you can establish any kind of feud/rivalry you like. Or just shrug off 'canon' fluff and do your own thing with the actual BA and DA. As long as the folks you game with can stomach your rationale...goferit.

My two teef.

Warboss Gorhack, as the OP, I agree the thread has turned a bit away from the original purpose. The thread itself was started as to try and figure out a reason for the two armies to battle, within the campaign. It wasn't until it started devolving into who would win, and plasma weapons were mentioned I had an idea (which I then incorporated). However, my opponent posted his story first, so ended up just incorporating what would have been my reason (using their plasma cannons against them) as a fluff explanation as to why my BA had more plasma then my opponent. So actually devolving into a who would win discussion, actually gave me the answer I was looking for.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Assault Marines are nigh worthless in an actual battle given their usage of chain weapons and short range pistols. The only ones that might be somewhat useful is the suicidal Death Company, what with completely throwing self preservation into the wind and thus constantly tanking hits until they finally bleed to death or get shot through the brain or spine. But outside of attacking Orks or Guardsmen, Assault Marines are nonsensical and merely fodder for the enemy's guns, and especially won't be useful as the Dark Angels will be the aggressor in any situation, which removes the Blood Angel's deepstrike advantage entirely.

But bumrush melee charges are always suicidal, see how effective the charges across the no man's land in WWI were in the face of LMG's.

But they are clearly very useful/effective within the setting of 40k, every faction except Tau use melee combatants regularly and in fact most "heroes" of those factions prefer melee.

Assault Marines are only useful when people are punting around the idiot ball/PIS.

Meanwhile all it takes to counter Assault Marines is a Devastator squad dug into fortifications equipped with plasma cannons and heavy bolters.

Realistically sure, but very little of 40k is realistic. Within the setting of 40k, melee works very well. I'm not saying it is necessarily more effective than ranged weaponry, but it certainly isn't completely worthless as you imply.

It's worthless outside of Plot Induced Stupidity. Assault Marines certainly make sense if they're just holding standard tactical weapons with chainswords or monomolecular blades used as backup, but hurling yourself at the enemy with just a pistol to shoot with is a tad daft.

The advantage of Blood Angel Assault Marines is also completely erased if the Ravenwing is in play, given their greater mobility.

1. This is a fluff discussion.
2. You have never faced my assault marines. Do you have any idea how dirty Blood Angels assault marines are right now? For dirt cheap i have a squad popping out of a drop with 4 melta guns (2×melta 2x infernos). And last i checked overpriced da devastators don't have intercept. Enjoy your hot 4+ cover save.
3. Assault marines are a suicide squad. Send your ravenwing at them. I dare you. 2x tacs with double infernos melta guns heavy flamers 3x meltaside assault squads taking chunks out of your back field and providing barriers for dirt cheap i dont care what happens to them. But apparently you will be distracted enough by them to disregard the deathstar flying up the field.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
4. Your also ignoring one critical thing. Plasma is going to help y out that much with my vehicular superiority. Ravenwing arent going to out manuever well played ba tanks.