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Just a question...

If 9th edition is supposedly squashing armies down and only leaving us with 6 factions.(SUPPOSEDLY)

Why would games workshop have gone through all the effort to release hard back editions of all the current armies. Simply to make them void??

Because its likely that if this rumoured condensing of the current army books takes place then particular units will be drawn from individual 8th edition army books, whilst general rules and an overview of each umbrella faction or legion will come from a central rulebook. So they won't be voided and can continue to be sold.

 Andy140491 wrote:
Just a question...

If 9th edition is supposedly squashing armies down and only leaving us with 6 factions.(SUPPOSEDLY)

Why would games workshop have gone through all the effort to release hard back editions of all the current armies. Simply to make them void??

Because making a new edition that renders those hard back editions void doesn't mean that the people that already bought them will get their money back. In fact the people that bought those books will be "forced" to buy new books, therefore generating even more sales.

Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

 Andy140491 wrote:
Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

To try and make more money?

In one fell swoop it renders all previous models and books obsolete, "forcing" everyone to buy everything again = more money.

Why does GW do anything these days?

Welcome to the 'Hobby'TM.

That seriously sucks. Like really bad. I was just about to buy an empire army too. Really looking forward to using them. Couldn't I continue to buy them... and just use old rules? :/ we only ever play at home anyway...

Haha, unfortunately they have to look at this more as money grab. I would like it if I am wrong.
IF they are listening (big if) the completionists have given up.
Some such as myself are no longer buying all the codex's because there are too many.
I wonder if they will go to bigger books?
Which of course would cost more.
I have not bought 40k stuff in ages within this edition which never happened to me before.
Hope they do something smart, the guys have kinda made 40k lose it's shine for me and it is not just any one thing.

I don't mind if they re vamp the rules... They can change and muddle them around... I just like the fact you have different armies with different flavours... something to kinda suit anyone ya know?..

To dumb it down to elves, humans, undead, chaos, skaven, ect. Would make the game so much more bland.

For me the crunch will be if the change to 9th is worth it or not.

I play in a GW store for my local, but if all models HAVE to be on circle bases for the game to work (meaning 8th could no longer be played if I re-based my army), and if the armies are going to change so drastically that my current models (my Empire and Night Goblins) can only be fielded as proxies for factions that have a completely different look... then it's going to be tough, and maybe enough to drive me away from playing in my local GW.

We'll see.

 Andy140491 wrote:
That seriously sucks. Like really bad. I was just about to buy an empire army too. Really looking forward to using them. Couldn't I continue to buy them... and just use old rules? :/ we only ever play at home anyway...

If you only ever play at home with people that have the same mindset as yourself, then whatever change GW makes is meaningless for you, isn't it? GW won't send anybody to your house to take your toys away...

If you and the people that you play against only care about 8th edition and 8th edition armies / factions, why are you worried about these changes? Just keep playing like you have until now.

Or, maybe, even, look elsewhere.

 Bottle wrote:
For me the crunch will be if the change to 9th is worth it or not.

I play in a GW store for my local, but if all models HAVE to be on circle bases for the game to work (meaning 8th could no longer be played if I re-based my army), and if the armies are going to change so drastically that my current models (my Empire and Night Goblins) can only be fielded as proxies for factions that have a completely different look... then it's going to be tough, and maybe enough to drive me away from playing in my local GW.

We'll see.

First, WHFB moving to round bases has been a rumor in every single edition release in this millennium, so I'm heaping on a quarry-load of salt on that one.

Secondly, even if they do change it, I really think that it doesn't matter what the base is and GW would probably explain that in WD at some point. New stuff will come on circle bases, they would say that old stuff would preferably be on circle bases, but you can still skirmish a model on a square base, you just have to disregard the angles for line-of-sight if those rules change. Otherwise, it is still the same model and can do the same thing unless they massively change the scale/size of the base (which is highly doubtful).

If round bases become the norm, I doubt even the most dickish of GW employees won't make a stink of it. Granted, they will try to sell you the new round base conversion kit

Because they sell. Period. GW does not gives a feth if you spend 100usd in one unit, one week prior to it being squated as long as they get your $$$.

xxvaderxx wrote:
Because they sell. Period. GW does not gives a feth if you spend 100usd in one unit, one week prior to it being squated as long as they get your $$$.

Correct. GW is a publically traded company (to their detriment) and cares about one thing & one thing only. Their shareholders. Who care about one thing & one thing only, their dividends.

 Andy140491 wrote:
Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

Why are you worrying citizen? The benificent imperium of the workshop has not officially mentioned anything about rendering your latest dead-tree propaganda obsolete. Are you trying to spread heresy? TAKE HIM AWAY!

 Andy140491 wrote:
Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

Because Fantasy doesn't sell well. Allegedly it loses money and I know spess mahreens alone outsell all of fantasy. This is why they want to overhaul it. The issue is the secrecy. PP and Wyrd are very open about changes. Hell Wyrd does an open beta ab 6 months prior to launch of a new book.

GW being so secretive has hurt them. Players distrust them, other players leave the game because of rumours & don't come back. I'm on a purchasing freeze, I won't buy any GW minis until the new edition drops. All because they want to be secretive. Even if they confirmed the rumours I'd at least know what to buy instead of not buying anything.

Not to mention those companies while i dont like their products, they just are not to my taste, actively seek a better game system and its improvement and balance. On the other hand GW does not give a feth about their game system and they are only looking into fantasys now in a last ditch effort to save it.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Andy140491 wrote:
Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

Because Fantasy doesn't sell well. Allegedly it loses money and I know spess mahreens alone outsell all of fantasy. This is why they want to overhaul it. The issue is the secrecy. PP and Wyrd are very open about changes. Hell Wyrd does an open beta ab 6 months prior to launch of a new book.

GW being so secretive has hurt them. Players distrust them, other players leave the game because of rumours & don't come back. I'm on a purchasing freeze, I won't buy any GW minis until the new edition drops. All because they want to be secretive. Even if they confirmed the rumours I'd at least know what to buy instead of not buying anything.

If fantasy was to be losing money rather then making it, surely squashing armies down into basic factions will just make it so... so boring. Won't that lose them more money??

HobbyBox wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
For me the crunch will be if the change to 9th is worth it or not.

I play in a GW store for my local, but if all models HAVE to be on circle bases for the game to work (meaning 8th could no longer be played if I re-based my army), and if the armies are going to change so drastically that my current models (my Empire and Night Goblins) can only be fielded as proxies for factions that have a completely different look... then it's going to be tough, and maybe enough to drive me away from playing in my local GW.

We'll see.

First, WHFB moving to round bases has been a rumor in every single edition release in this millennium, so I'm heaping on a quarry-load of salt on that one.

Secondly, even if they do change it, I really think that it doesn't matter what the base is and GW would probably explain that in WD at some point. New stuff will come on circle bases, they would say that old stuff would preferably be on circle bases, but you can still skirmish a model on a square base, you just have to disregard the angles for line-of-sight if those rules change. Otherwise, it is still the same model and can do the same thing unless they massively change the scale/size of the base (which is highly doubtful).

If round bases become the norm, I doubt even the most dickish of GW employees won't make a stink of it. Granted, they will try to sell you the new round base conversion kit

You don't need to convince me im hoping the changes aren't as dramatic as the rumours state. I would like to be able to play 8th and 9th (if 9th is radically different and in ways inferior) and I would like it that the new models and old models still fit together thematically. But there is a lot of rumours saying otherwise and so im just gonna wait it out and enjoy playing 8th every Friday in my GW until then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andy140491 wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Andy140491 wrote:
Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

Because Fantasy doesn't sell well. Allegedly it loses money and I know spess mahreens alone outsell all of fantasy. This is why they want to overhaul it. The issue is the secrecy. PP and Wyrd are very open about changes. Hell Wyrd does an open beta ab 6 months prior to launch of a new book.

GW being so secretive has hurt them. Players distrust them, other players leave the game because of rumours & don't come back. I'm on a purchasing freeze, I won't buy any GW minis until the new edition drops. All because they want to be secretive. Even if they confirmed the rumours I'd at least know what to buy instead of not buying anything.

If fantasy was to be losing money rather then making it, surely squashing armies down into basic factions will just make it so... so boring. Won't that lose them more money??

It's losing them money to keep such a vast range stocked. So the biggest thing they are doing is reducing their costs by reducing much of the range. They will also be taking the factions in directions away from classic fantasy troupes. As the new models for end times have been on the whole incredible this is about the only exciting thing with regards to 9th: the new minis will be stellar.

 Bottle wrote:

HobbyBox wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
For me the crunch will be if the change to 9th is worth it or not.

I play in a GW store for my local, but if all models HAVE to be on circle bases for the game to work (meaning 8th could no longer be played if I re-based my army), and if the armies are going to change so drastically that my current models (my Empire and Night Goblins) can only be fielded as proxies for factions that have a completely different look... then it's going to be tough, and maybe enough to drive me away from playing in my local GW.

We'll see.

First, WHFB moving to round bases has been a rumor in every single edition release in this millennium, so I'm heaping on a quarry-load of salt on that one.

Secondly, even if they do change it, I really think that it doesn't matter what the base is and GW would probably explain that in WD at some point. New stuff will come on circle bases, they would say that old stuff would preferably be on circle bases, but you can still skirmish a model on a square base, you just have to disregard the angles for line-of-sight if those rules change. Otherwise, it is still the same model and can do the same thing unless they massively change the scale/size of the base (which is highly doubtful).

If round bases become the norm, I doubt even the most dickish of GW employees won't make a stink of it. Granted, they will try to sell you the new round base conversion kit

You don't need to convince me im hoping the changes aren't as dramatic as the rumours state. I would like to be able to play 8th and 9th (if 9th is radically different and in ways inferior) and I would like it that the new models and old models still fit together thematically. But there is a lot of rumours saying otherwise and so im just gonna wait it out and enjoy playing 8th every Friday in my GW until then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Andy140491 wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Andy140491 wrote:
Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

Because Fantasy doesn't sell well. Allegedly it loses money and I know spess mahreens alone outsell all of fantasy. This is why they want to overhaul it. The issue is the secrecy. PP and Wyrd are very open about changes. Hell Wyrd does an open beta ab 6 months prior to launch of a new book.

GW being so secretive has hurt them. Players distrust them, other players leave the game because of rumours & don't come back. I'm on a purchasing freeze, I won't buy any GW minis until the new edition drops. All because they want to be secretive. Even if they confirmed the rumours I'd at least know what to buy instead of not buying anything.

If fantasy was to be losing money rather then making it, surely squashing armies down into basic factions will just make it so... so boring. Won't that lose them more money??

It's losing them money to keep such a vast range stocked. So the biggest thing they are doing is reducing their costs by reducing much of the range. They will also be taking the factions in directions away from classic fantasy troupes. As the new models for end times have been on the whole incredible this is about the only exciting thing with regards to 9th: the new minis will be stellar.

I would also like to be able to use my existing armies in 9th but I don't see how that will be possible. If GW really does want to shrink the range and consolidate the army books then there will be plenty of units from 8th that don't exist in 9th. I don't see how they could make 9th backewards compatible with 8th if they're chaning the scale of the games, the make up of the armies and the models. If 9th includes smaller ranges and new models then I can't see them including rules for old units that they don't produce anymore, that would be having rules for units that don't have models which is something they've said won't happen anymore after the Chaperhouse lawsuit. Either 9th will be a slightly different version of 8th or it will be completely different and a lot of existing units will be relegated to counts as proxies.

 Andy140491 wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Andy140491 wrote:
Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

Because Fantasy doesn't sell well. Allegedly it loses money and I know spess mahreens alone outsell all of fantasy. This is why they want to overhaul it. The issue is the secrecy. PP and Wyrd are very open about changes. Hell Wyrd does an open beta ab 6 months prior to launch of a new book.

GW being so secretive has hurt them. Players distrust them, other players leave the game because of rumours & don't come back. I'm on a purchasing freeze, I won't buy any GW minis until the new edition drops. All because they want to be secretive. Even if they confirmed the rumours I'd at least know what to buy instead of not buying anything.

If fantasy was to be losing money rather then making it, surely squashing armies down into basic factions will just make it so... so boring. Won't that lose them more money??

Because it reduces overhead & speeds up the time it takes to update all the armies. If this is true they weighed the cost benefit of each & said the reduced overhead would be more than lost sales.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Andy140491 wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Andy140491 wrote:
Why would they do this :/ it really feels like they're making current fantasy players worry for no reason :/ seems to me like a really unnecessary massive overhaul.

Because Fantasy doesn't sell well. Allegedly it loses money and I know spess mahreens alone outsell all of fantasy. This is why they want to overhaul it. The issue is the secrecy. PP and Wyrd are very open about changes. Hell Wyrd does an open beta ab 6 months prior to launch of a new book.

GW being so secretive has hurt them. Players distrust them, other players leave the game because of rumours & don't come back. I'm on a purchasing freeze, I won't buy any GW minis until the new edition drops. All because they want to be secretive. Even if they confirmed the rumours I'd at least know what to buy instead of not buying anything.

If fantasy was to be losing money rather then making it, surely squashing armies down into basic factions will just make it so... so boring. Won't that lose them more money??

Because it reduces overhead & speeds up the time it takes to update all the armies. If this is true they weighed the cost benefit of each & said the reduced overhead would be more than lost sales.

Exactly. If the player base shrinks but the cost of supporting the game shrinks even more they're still better off. It's the same logic they use for running one man stores.

From what I've been hearing on the forums, many wfb gamers have stopped buying new toys due to everyone's wait and see policy. If the rumors aren't as severe as they are being touted then it is a colossal cock up by the GW propaganda machine.

chickenbane wrote:
From what I've been hearing on the forums, many wfb gamers have stopped buying new toys due to everyone's wait and see policy. If the rumors aren't as severe as they are being touted then it is a colossal cock up by the GW propaganda machine.

Exactly, but GW likes to keep everything super top-secret. I don't know why, I mnean nobody is really trying to copy them or steal their game system. PP uses a completely different system & Wyrd is even further off. I can't speak for mantic though, never played it.

Whatever the new edition brings, the one thing I expect is either an instant or gradual change to a less-than-generic fantasy look with appropriately new IP protected names.

I'll bet they still have a think tank working out what the hell to rename Space Marines to. Everything else they make seems to have ridiculous IP protection - even paint names.

Andy140491 wrote:If fantasy was to be losing money rather then making it, surely squashing armies down into basic factions will just make it so... so boring.

Would that be more or less boring than unbreakable hordes, unstoppable spells, holding up the game every few minutes to resolve some unit's (any unit's) special rules, hit-wound-save-lather-rinse-repeat, pulling minis out of the back rank and trying to jigsaw-puzzle them back into some kind of order, worrying about just how many minis you have left in the back rank, and just generally taking hours to complete a game that other rulesets would accomplish in a fraction of the time...?

 Andy140491 wrote:
Just a question...

If 9th edition is supposedly squashing armies down and only leaving us with 6 factions.(SUPPOSEDLY)

Why would games workshop have gone through all the effort to release hard back editions of all the current armies. Simply to make them void??

Lets face it.
if you spent £30 on the army book of a dead faction, that's too bad. Nottingham wont care.

Fresh sales drive > customer support.

If the biggest seller in 40k is Space Marines (and there is only so many way to differentiate between them (dresses, horns, vampirism, accountancy etc) then taking the WFB armies down to 6 factions isn't a bad idea. I like the idea of facing many different armies, not several similar groups of essentially the same force.

I think spess mahreens selling so well has to do with:

A.) comparatively low model count
B.) GW shoving them down every new players throat so hard they poop power armour
C.) Ease of conversion
D.) Ease of paint (le'ts face is Spess Mahreens are pretty simplistic)
E.) Ease of swapping. My Spess Mahreens are painted alpha legion and I can run them as: SM, CSM, GK, BA, SW, DA, BT at my leisure as they all look similar enough and have similar weapons. I justify it as "The Alpha Legion are known for impersonating other chapters, today that chapter is..." so for the cost of one army I can field 7.
F.) They have been in literally EVERY starter set so almost EVERYBODY has some.
G.) Ease of play. Having a 3+ save on (almost) everything makes it easy to recover from mistakes / poor positioning.

Point is I don't think condensing down to 6 factions will boost sales to SM levels, there are far too many other reasons.