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I would love to field Terminators but they just aren't great....especially for the points.
I know you can take another detachment but I don't think you should have to if you want Terminators.

I mean Grey Knight Terminators are 33 points as are Space Wolf Termies but the main codex ones are still overpriced!

Do you think GW will ever fix Space Marine Terminators?

No, because they are making you pay for that power fist.

GW can't into point balance. Even now when they were doing pretty good with the 7th books, they got to necrons and went off the deep end again.

They don't seem to realize that a whole bunch of valuable gear that dies on the way to the enemy isn't worth as much as if it were on something that can make it there.

The only way to actually make Marine termies balanced (but would unbalance them at the same time) is to make that fist strike at initiative. That way you still have a 2/5+ model with some CC oompf but it would be a scary cc unit rather than just a mediocre unit that once "ruled" the battlefield but now has fallen far far behind

How about they leave the points the same but make them T5
Might help a bit

I think t5 would be an okay start. My big problem with termies is how easily they die to small arms. Couple that with an "ignore unwieldy" ability and I might actually take them.

No because you can't fix what isn't broken.

It depends on how they're selling. I could see tactical termies getting a points drop in the next dex. Assault termies seem fine as is.

If they did get correct it in the not too distant future, I believe it would start with DA.

Deathwing terminators are currently the most overpriced terminators in the game, and definitely one of the underperforming parts of an underperforming codex.

If they did change DA, then other terminators would follow suit in later codices.

Personally I would like to see all basic terminators go down to 35 points. For DA that is a 9 point drop, but at the moment they are basically paying for chapter tactics, which all other SM chapters do not do.

35 points each, TH/SS still costs 5 points, 2 heavy weapons per squad, and all heavy weapons are reduced by 5 points each.

5 terminators with 2 CML for 215 points wouldn't be too much to ask for.

Perhaps a very slight pts drop for Tact Termies, but rather than that, I'd like to see the weapon upgrade option mirror the Noise Marine verison, hence;
1-5 per squad = 1 Heavy flamer/Asscan/Cyclone
6-10 per squad = 2 Heavy flamer/Asscan/Cyclone

You pay a little bit of an added 'tax' to min/max the weapon upgrades, but you can easily get the pair of upgrades for less than 300pts. Would allow the Tacs to gain that flexibility they're currently badly in need of.

Since they just dropped the Necron Termiator-equivalent down to half its previous points, I suspect we'll see something similar in the next Space Marine book.

Too many people own them now to have any reason to make them good.

There's no profit on GW end for making them good.

Nonetheless, every new Space Marines player still buys a box b/c everyone things mole people look cool. I'll never understand it.

Waht tends to make Termiantors bad is they die too easily to the all too prevalent AP2 weaponry, including the thing the suits were specifically built to pretect against (Plasma).

A 2+ save is only significantly better in combat, and only because they took away "AP2" from power swords and made tehm Ap3 or worse, so at-init AP2 is now uncommon.

The same needs to happen to ranged weaponry, if you want to make them worth the points they pay for their 2+ save

The problem is that they die to everything Massed small arms kills them, just by forcing armor saves until the ones come up. Heavy weapons kill them, as the 5++ is not enough to reliably keep them standing.

How to save them is a question that keeps on being raised. If, what, and when GW decides to do something about it is another issue.

It could be worse, they didn’t always have the 5++, and they got that for free.

That can be done as well by just taping a special rule like the armour reduces the AP of a ranged weapon hitting it by 1.

 Nevelon wrote:
The problem is that they die to everything Massed small arms kills them, just by forcing armor saves until the ones come up. Heavy weapons kill them, as the 5++ is not enough to reliably keep them standing.

How to save them is a question that keeps on being raised. If, what, and when GW decides to do something about it is another issue.

It could be worse, they didn’t always have the 5++, and they got that for free.

I've long felt "immune to weapons with AP5 or higher" would make them a real threat without being broken. One would probably need to alter the SS rules or Ass Termies points, otherwise 2+/3++ immune to AP5 may be a tad too much.

Feel No Pain would certainly help and keep them from getting additional protection from S8 and higher.

Against plasm, a FNP Termie would get two 5+ saves. Not bad.

Could give them an extra wound.

Breazeal wrote:
There's no profit on GW end for making them good.

Nonetheless, every new Space Marines player still buys a box [gibberish snipped]

Impressive contradiction there.

Extra T, reduction of 3 or 4 pts and the ability to take 2 heavies in a 5 man squad. Then they would just reach good.

 Portugal Jones wrote:

Breazeal wrote:
There's no profit on GW end for making them good.

Nonetheless, every new Space Marines player still buys a box [gibberish snipped]

Impressive contradiction there.

Not really. The kits already sell. They have no incentive to buff them, as making them good just means they come out of the display case, rather than driving sales of a product that isn't moving.

I would like to have the ignoring Unwieldy for Terminators.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
The problem is that they die to everything Massed small arms kills them, just by forcing armor saves until the ones come up. Heavy weapons kill them, as the 5++ is not enough to reliably keep them standing.

How to save them is a question that keeps on being raised. If, what, and when GW decides to do something about it is another issue.

It could be worse, they didn’t always have the 5++, and they got that for free.

I've long felt "immune to weapons with AP5 or higher" would make them a real threat without being broken. One would probably need to alter the SS rules or Ass Termies points, otherwise 2+/3++ immune to AP5 may be a tad too much.

At which point they become immune to the entire Orks codex.

Remember that Xenos exist, people.

Give Storm Bolters rending.

Not until they stop "feeling" for the right points instead of actually balancing there points.

Been playing for 3 editions...tac marines and terminators have always been rubbish. Except assualt terms are still kinda of decent out of land raiders the two units combined costs almost 500 points for a min squad - when spending 500 points on a single assault unit and transport it should be amazing - not decent.

In my opinion, Terminators have been having problems with massed fire since weapons profiles changed, becoming "AP" with 3rd edition. Back in 2nd edition, it was impossible to kill them with massed fire of weak weapons. Such guns simply weren't strong enough to make them fail armor saves the way they were handled back then.

And nowadays, it's not the armor that is a problem, it's the huge and increasing plethora of AP2 weapons and the like.

Used to be that you needed specialized weapons to handle terminators.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
If they did get correct it in the not too distant future, I believe it would start with DA.

Deathwing terminators are currently the most overpriced terminators in the game, and definitely one of the underperforming parts of an underperforming codex.

If they did change DA, then other terminators would follow suit in later codices.

Personally I would like to see all basic terminators go down to 35 points. For DA that is a 9 point drop, but at the moment they are basically paying for chapter tactics, which all other SM chapters do not do.

35 points each, TH/SS still costs 5 points, 2 heavy weapons per squad, and all heavy weapons are reduced by 5 points each.

5 terminators with 2 CML for 215 points wouldn't be too much to ask for.

That seems reasonable.

 Charles Rampant wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
The problem is that they die to everything Massed small arms kills them, just by forcing armor saves until the ones come up. Heavy weapons kill them, as the 5++ is not enough to reliably keep them standing.

How to save them is a question that keeps on being raised. If, what, and when GW decides to do something about it is another issue.

It could be worse, they didn’t always have the 5++, and they got that for free.

I've long felt "immune to weapons with AP5 or higher" would make them a real threat without being broken. One would probably need to alter the SS rules or Ass Termies points, otherwise 2+/3++ immune to AP5 may be a tad too much.

At which point they become immune to the entire Orks codex.

Remember that Xenos exist, people.

I had forgotten that orks didn't have custom mega blastas, rokkits, and deffguns. Not to mention power claws

Termis either need a massive point decrease or the need two wounds and maybe feel no pain to make them worthwhile. As it stands only wolves and knight can reliably field them and that's cause knights get them cheap and with psyhi powers while wolves sacrifice power weapons for free ss.

 Tinchebrai wrote:
Could give them an extra wound.

Boom. Two wounds, like obliterators. Some of the Forge World HH terminators have 2 wounds (World Eaters and Salamanders come to mind). They seemed reasonably costed for it, too.

Sure, they'll get doubled out by Str8 and higher, but then getting hit in the face with a meltagun should hurt...