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Have you read or can you imagine a Space Marine experience fear of some sort? I'm not talking about cowering together and weep but just a situation where their emotions affected them just a little.

There was the situation where some Space Wolves gave in and joined a Chaos fleet (Huron Blackheart?) which boarded their vessel, so surely they must have felt something if they turned over unless it was a spell (the text didn't lead you to conclude that). Personally, even as a Chaos fan, I think that's a poor story as I can't imagine any Space Marine turn to Chaos like that but as I wrote, a light touch of insecurity because of intimidation - would that be possible? The insecurity could be reflected in their communication, close combat fighting skills or whatever...

I've always been under the impression that Space Marines have the kind of fear that makes them go insane and do crazy things (irrational) bred out of them, but they do feel some amount of fear, insomuch as they recognize danger, understand that they may die, and do not want to die.

The Horus Heresy has a few situations that illustrate the mental vulnerabilities of Astartes. Most of them stem from their reliance on their primarch IMO. Just look at how Abaddon and the other members of the Mournival acted when Horus was injured, they seemed downright terrified to me.

Chaospling wrote:
Have you read or can you imagine a Space Marine experience fear of some sort? I'm not talking about cowering together and weep but just a situation where their emotions affected them just a little.

There was the situation where some Space Wolves gave in and joined a Chaos fleet (Huron Blackheart?) which boarded their vessel, so surely they must have felt something if they turned over unless it was a spell (the text didn't lead you to conclude that). Personally, even as a Chaos fan, I think that's a poor story as I can't imagine any Space Marine turn to Chaos like that but as I wrote, a light touch of insecurity because of intimidation - would that be possible? The insecurity could be reflected in their communication, close combat fighting skills or whatever...

I am not sure if that's a case of fear. More like, making the best out of a bad situation. Not all Space Marines are of the death before dishonour mould, some are more realistic about certain things.

In the Heresy series it's been mentioned that they do feel fear on occasion, but their training has ensured that they know how to cope and deal with it rather than let it over come them like humans. Although there have been times where humans have done some boss stuff like stand up to Horus.

Hm, from what I've read about Space Marines and Primarchs turning to Chaos, it always seems more like insecurity rather than fear. It's usually an existential crisis of some sort, along the lines of "have I done my duty" or "what is the purpose of my existence" or "have I been betrayed?" or "Can my actions be forgiven?" or "Will I be branded a heretic?" etc, not the kind of fear we usually think of.

It's really more of an interpretive statement. They understand what fear is, but because their priorities and values are different, they lack the sense of self in most situations where a normal person fears something.

A Space Marine isn't afraid of dying. He's afraid of failing. The self is not a concern for a Space Marine in most cases. He understands his value, and won't throw his life away for no reason. Hence why a Space Marine will retreat if there is nothing to be gained. He has an obligation to his Chapter and the Emperor, and a meaningless death is failure. Failure to serve, and failure to return his geneseed.

But when it comes down to whether or not he fears death in combat, no. That's his entire purpose. He's been raised from a small child, indoctrinated, and surrounded almost entirely by like-minded individuals who reinforce that idea.

It's essentially why only a tiny fraction of Space Marine Chapters fall to Chaos (the estimate in one piece of fluff was what, 50ish in 10,000 years?). They have very little concept of self, they have a very rigid set of beliefs, and all of their friends share those same beliefs.

The problems the Legions faced was that they held a greater allegiance to their Primarchs than to the Emperor in the end. The Emperor had given them a god-like father figure to worship in his stead. And the Primarchs weren't Space Marines. They hadn't been raised like modern Space Marines (or even Crusade-era ones), so they had very human weaknesses and failings that aren't present in a 40K-era Space Marine. And when the primarchs fell, their Legionnaires went with them.

To the modern Space Marine the primarch is a semi-mythical figure of eons past, whose existence is only what the chapter cult has made of him.

Hence why Renegade Marines are usually like zombie movies. The less you try to explain "why", the better. Usually, "Because the Warp" is the best bet, lol. Like the Abyssal Crusade Marines. When they try to explain Chapters like the Soul Drinkers or Crimson Sabers, you're left wondering "Wait, what?"

Oldey but Goldey:
http://www.geocities.ws/mockier/1stbattleoftallarn.html

I always assumed that was more the myth and propaganda of the Space Marines, e.g. "these colors don't run." I assume that they experience fear but that it pales next to their sense of duty.

Their ability to overcome fear comes from their training and conditioning, not from any inherent warp voodoo or it being removed from their genetics. Lots of novels and stories and such show that they actually are perfectly capable of feeling fear, but most Space Marines are bad ass enough to overcome and control those feelings. (though a few have them momentarily get paralyzed by fear, like one where Blood Angels were watching their brothers all around them succombing to the Black Rage en masse. These tend to be extreme outliers and rare situations though. It's not every day so many Blood Angels are put in a situation where they end up nearly all succombing to the Black Rage, for example. Otherwise there'd be no more Blood Angels)

 Orblivion wrote:
The Horus Heresy has a few situations that illustrate the mental vulnerabilities of Astartes. Most of them stem from their reliance on their primarch IMO. Just look at how Abaddon and the other members of the Mournival acted when Horus was injured, they seemed downright terrified to me.

Also in the HH game rules, marines do not have ATSKNF

I've gathered that Space Marines still feel fear. However, their response to it is not as pronounced as a normal human's. Training, indoctrination and to some extent their enhanced biology reduces fear from a 'fight or flight' panic response to acknowledgement of threat.

Space Marines are always in 'fight' mode. Their enhanced biology has other ways to trigger, produce and use adrenalin than a normal human, so the fear response no longer an essential survival characteristic.

I think Veteran Sergeant makes the point very well. I don't agree that Space Marines have very little sense of self, however.

If that was the case, honor and glory would not be a 'thing' for Space Marines. In a group with no sense of self everyone strives to 'fit in' rather than stand out. You wouldn't see baroque artifacts, honors and purity seals. You wouldn't have special color schemes and honors for veterans, or special things like terminator armor to strive for. Instead, every squad would be an efficient, interchangeable cog that used whatever equipment was appropriate to the mission.

4th company needs Terminator Armour for a shipboard assault? Eighth Company needs Carpace Armour, Sniper Rifles and Sternguard Ammo for this Search-And Destroy? Issue it, it's not the sole prerogative of 1st or 10th company.

There are issues of training, of course. Terminator Armor takes additional training. So do Jump Packs and (perhaps) Sternguard Ammo. But that's not how any Space Marine Chapter operates - not even the Space Wolves, who pretty much flout the Codex Astartes as a matter of course.

I think Vet Sgt is dead on when he states that a Space Marine fears failure more than death. Decades-to-centuries of indoctrination and training will do that to you.

The fear of failing your brothers-in-arms, not to mention failing the larger traditions of the Chapter are almost identical to the motivations soldiers have always felt on the battlefield. It's led to men counting coup or volunteering for the 'Forlorn Hope', the first unit into the breach on a siege assault. It's also led men to hold out against impossible odds - 'Remember the Alamo' and all that.

My two teef.

 Vash108 wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
The Horus Heresy has a few situations that illustrate the mental vulnerabilities of Astartes. Most of them stem from their reliance on their primarch IMO. Just look at how Abaddon and the other members of the Mournival acted when Horus was injured, they seemed downright terrified to me.

Also in the HH game rules, marines do not have ATSKNF

That's probably because ATSKNF makes your squad unsweepable in CC. You need to kill in CC, and when everything is a marine...

In Galaxy in Flames...

In the short story where The Night Haunter is arrested by Rogal Dorn he remarks "So they do know fear..." as he is hunting some Imperial Fists from the shadows and senses their fear and panic.

Astartes are brainwashed so as not to feel fear.

No brainwashing process is 100% perfect.

Crunch-wise, this is certainly not the case. I've seen marines run off the board turn one after taking an especially bad volley of sniper fire. Conversely, I've seen tacticals stand up to a Hive Tyrant until each marine has been lobbed in half.

I suppose there are fluff explanations. They'll fight a Hive Tyrant in order to buy time, but will flee from an incoming sniper volley to avoid unnecessary casualties. Still, SM run away like little girls from anything that can do enough casualties, some even off the board if timed right.