Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Codex inquisition has been the most fun for me to play because it's so varied but I'm finding that trying to build tourney lists around it just doesn't quite work well anymore.

Most places don't let you take multiple CAD's (i.e. nothing more than 2) and the basic FOC is just so restrictive that I can't build a good TAC list with just a double inquisition. I get no troops/heavies/fast attack (fine, I get that) but I'm limited to just 3 henchmen units? that's it? Also get no fortifications nor LoW which makes fighting things like super heavies pretty much GG for me alot more often lately. The other kickers are that there aren't any good formations that I've found anyway and those formation rules seem to be just getting stronger and stronger such that it's getting harder to compete with what is essentially a tax for awesome rules theme in 7th. Alot more of the bigger tournaments now play at above 1500 with 1750/1850 very common now a days which means I have a tough time even filling that unless I go like 4 land raiders or something silly as I just don't have anything else to really use. And the land raiders I get, don't include the really up-gunned ones like the achilles or spartan.

So take an ally of something then most people say. Ok, makes sense so I've tried and most everytime, it ends up being that the inquisition just becomes a token force as anything I might build tends to be far more focused on getting an effective formation or super heavy/building/flyer support or AA, and I just find myself chopping out the henchmen 9 times out of 10.

What I usually end up with in a competitive setting is either coteaz for a cheap ML2 + seize the initiative reroll/anti-deepstrike buffer for something shooty and/or xenos inquisitor with greandes for a melee buffer/attach to something else choppy (but often still gets dropped as he's too slow and can't deep strike to keep up with even terminators. Have to pay for a ride like storm raven/land raider to make him work so then it becomes build a list around a 500 point melee mini-deathstar)

Please help me rethink these guys dakka. I really want to keep using my henchmen but I'm finding that I just can't compete against more major tournament lists anymore. Heck, with even highlander rules, I still have a hard time making anything cause there's just not much in the codex though smaller points games might still work ok.

Bottom line - Given the restrictions most tournaments have placed on CAD and FOC's which I totally understand but makes building with what's in the codex feeling impossible. With unlimited CAD, the codex actually works fine and can scale up. Just not in the current meta it seems. Is this just an oversight from most organizers since so few people actually try to use the codex instead of just 2 buffmanders as allies?

Pretty much out of luck. I run Inquisition as well.

There is just not enough options for the army. The are designed currently to be an "add-on" detachment.

Only obscure trick I know is you spam Valks due to the rulingoin one of the IA books that you can take a Valk squadron as a fast attack choice in an inquisition detachment with no limit. So thats something but I doubt enough.

Hmm if I think of anything else Ill let you know.

I have come to the conclusion that tournaments are run by heretics and xenos-sympathizers. The restriction on number of detachments hurts Imperial forces most.

But TBH, running Inquisition as a main force was always going to be hard.

Personally, if I wanted more than a token detachment of inquisition, it would be a LR full of crusaders, DCAs, with a Xenos inquisitor, etc. + two squads of in psybolt, assault cannon razorbacks. That's 800ish points right there, and doesn't feel like totally like the inquisition guys aren't your main army. (They supply the deathstar.)

I'm actually ok if it still functioned as an add on attachment but the acolytes aren't really durable nor killy enough nor obj sec to be worth it most times.

Sure I get the cheap plasma cannon servitors but so does SW and you still get access to other stuff.

Sure I get the crusader + DCA melee blob but it fails against all the T5 stuff with 3++ now a days (TWC, wraiths, MC's all over the place with T6-7 not uncommon now). Also can do a much better melee blob like this with sisters codex and again gets other stuff.

Guess I'm just partially venting but getting trounced (albeit with new experimental builds each time vs tourney practice lists) and not finding a way out is getting kind of frustrating.

Lack of numbers (unit size limit and number), lack toughness, lack bs(though made up a bit by psychic powers), lack skyfire, lack formations, lack Obj Sec, lack fortification and LoW makes it so hard to try and generalship my way out of things now a days.

I literally play every army and so far this codex has been the greatest challenge for me to actually be competitive with today's tournament rules though much like playing dark souls, I keep going back for more punishment @_@

Only good part is that I guess I can feel not too terrible for using an optimized double CAD inquisition list vs other people's fluff lists T.T...

A guy tied for first in a smallish (six people) tourney in my hood that used just inquisition and knights.

So he had a proper knight detachement with the seneshcal and everything, and then he min/maxed his way to have 5 inquisitors leading units of 3 psychers each in some sort of transport and they were all geared to summon demons, aaaand hey, it actually worked (mostly do to the lack of aerial opposition, but still).

Full squads of jokaero jumping out of valkyries are your best friend at higher point levels when playing pure inquisition.

Still, it seems like you're really going out of your way to artificially hobble yourself though, considering inquisitors can command all the forces of the imperium, if they ever were involved in a battle they'd probably show up with a bunch of proper soldiers, not their merry band of weirdos.

A very fluffy inquisition army would easily use imperial guard troops and space marines (shoot, even things like sternguard could make pretty good deathwatch).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vespid wrote:
Full squads of jokaero jumping out of valkyries are your best friend at higher point levels when playing pure inquisition.

You jest but I once had a lone jokaero punch out a chaos terminator champion who charged him. Give me a full squad of that monkey any day

 Walnuts wrote:
Still, it seems like you're really going out of your way to artificially hobble yourself though, considering inquisitors can command all the forces of the imperium, if they ever were involved in a battle they'd probably show up with a bunch of proper soldiers, not their merry band of weirdos.

A very fluffy inquisition army would easily use imperial guard troops and space marines (shoot, even things like sternguard could make pretty good deathwatch).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vespid wrote:
Full squads of jokaero jumping out of valkyries are your best friend at higher point levels when playing pure inquisition.

You jest but I once had a lone jokaero punch out a chaos terminator champion who charged him. Give me a full squad of that monkey any day

you see that's the whole point of the complaint comming out of this is that the tournaments (at least the major ones) have alot of restrictions on how many detatchments you can take. The 5 inquisitors list you describe above is not possible as that'd be like 4 CAD's chained together which is not allowed by EOC/BAO/LOV/ etc. And the competition at those events will all be top notch so low chance to see no fliers.

While the thought of 12 lascannon monkies shooting things gives me a good lolz, they basically need an imperial titan or something like that to make it worth while. It's just such massive overkill on pretty much everything else out there and it's expensive as all get out (not to mention that you get no benefit from their weapons modification rule). I suppose you can use it to shoot down air targets? TL (via attached inquisitor ML1 hopefully not denied for divination), it's got a decent chance to shoot down something flying.

18.57% to explode an AV12 flier, and 20.32% to just destroy it. (with a 4+ jink)

Vs AV11 aircraft - 26.82% to destroy (but realistically, who's gonna leave 12 lascannons alone but w/e)

VS T6 hive tyrants - got 33.63% chance to cause 3 wounds with a 5+ cover. drops to 27.11% chance to cause 2 wounds while it's under the venomthrope effects.

And that's with something along the lines of 520 points shooting at 225 points. +45 for a venomthrope or possibly a void shield gen cause nids have fortifications <_< somehow....

The return fire will then take out roughly 5 (65% chance of that occurring or 6 kills at 42.26%) So while fun, is definately not in line with what's out there now a days.

 sudojoe wrote:
I'm actually ok if it still functioned as an add on attachment but the acolytes aren't really durable nor killy enough nor obj sec to be worth it most times.
Sure I get the crusader + DCA melee blob but it fails against all the T5 stuff with 3++ now a days (TWC, wraiths, MC's all over the place with T6-7 not uncommon now). Also can do a much better melee blob like this with sisters codex and again gets other stuff.

Sisters can't put it in an assault transport, but they can give it priests who are ICs, one of whom makes the Hymns always work with no Ld check. I highly suggest you re-check the math though. Crusaders with rerollable 3++ are one of the greatest tarpits ever even at T3. The inquisitor tossing rad grenades knocks down enemy toughness. The best way to run this squad is to have Sister allies for their priest

As for acolytes, the most effective I've found is giving them three plasma guns. They will die. Horribly, but you paid 42 points for 6 plasma shots. They are the cheapest suicide squad that is actually potentially useful. The trick is to have enough threats that the enemy can't immediately focus on them (allies can provide those).

it's not that tourny orginizers are xenos sympathizers, they just have a differnt view on the game from GW, they're still mostly in the old 5th ed days, mentally where each army is a distinct entity etc. GW has moved IMHO into a space where the IoM is basicly a single "super army" spread across multiple codexes. the idea is that rather then say "yeah I play guard" you're supposed to plunk down a buncha minis and say "Inqusitor Dilbert of the Ordo Xenos, has deployed with the 1138th regiment of the Imperial guard to defend this world from the horrors of the Tyranids. Dilbert has brought with him a freeblade Knight known as Awesome sauce, and elements of the Hammers of Dorn Space Marine Chapter!"

whereas the list would be a ordo Xenos Inqusitor, Imperial guard, a single IK and space Marine allies.

The problem is if you don't limit Formations/detachments it can get rather silly. 7e still needs a bit of balancing.

Tir Mcdoul wrote:
The problem is if you don't limit Formations/detachments it can get rather silly. 7e still needs a bit of balancing.

yeah, 7th ed simply isn't designed for the serious tournment scene. it's designed for a much friendlier enviroment. in the ideal 40k enviroment people build their army based on a story they wanna tell now "what can make for the most cheese to win with" of course in a tournment enviroment people are wanting to win, (as they should be. no one plays anything compeitivly to get the participation ribbon)

I'm curious if any tournament organizers are aware that this is even a thing. I mean since they are already essentially making up objectives/ deleting certain malestorm objectives, and setting up various other restrictions on formations etc, have any of them went and just adjusted the FoC?

I mean if you made it:

2 HQ's
6 Elites (Coteaz can then make them troops for obj sec maybe?)
0 heavies
0 Fast attack
0 other troop choices

1 fortification
1 LoW With imperial factions

that'd be enough to make it a viable army sorta (minus the air support and lack of hard hitters like MC's or non-transport tanks but can make do with valkyries I guess. Ahh only if inquisition had land raider helios or achilles)

Not sure if that'd make inquisition too good?