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ok I have an 1850 point game on thursday against a tau army. I dont know his list but I know he uses 2 rip tides and broadsides and a hammerhead tank with pathfinders.

Im designing a few lists which I'm trying to ake as fun lists to play but also lists that will give a decent fight because if I get tabled in turn 2 then it wont be fun.

So my list is;

Coteaz
karamzov
Inquisitor with Incenerator

4 joakero weaponsmiths
Callidus assassion
vindicare assassin
Land raider with psyammo
land raider redeemer with psy ammo and psyflame

allies AM
Leman Russ Vanquisher with Tank Commander (HQ)
Lemn Russ Battle Tank (HQ)

Leman Russ Battle Tank (HS)

10 veterans with 3 flamers

2 servo skulls


If I get first turn I stand a very good chance because I will use the Callidus assassin to infiltrate 1 inch from the broadside unit or any other decent target and flame a unit with the ap2 flamer and then use karamzov to target her with a str10 a1 large blast that will hit all of the broadsides and hooefully killing them.

The vets will be in the land raider with the incenerator hq (=4 flame templates and 2 land raider flame templates) and will hopefully make it to the other side of the table and flamer everything. FOr this to work (if i get 1st turn) then the vindicare assassin will take out his hammerhead if not the 4 lascannon joakeros should hopefully do i and if not i still have another land raider with 2 twin linked lascannons.

As I said a lot depends on me getting first turn because I really need to take out the Hammerhead and also karamazov and the callidus assassin are nasty if you get the first turn.

Not sure how I will deal with the rip tides as he usually has 2 of them but if i can take out the broadsides and the hhammerhead and the pathfinders in the first turn then that will have destroed a lot of his firepower.

What would you change from my list?

unbound?

Issue Exterminatus.

Take out the pathfinders first, but if he goes first get into cover. Then with the vindicare assasin take out the broadsides and then the leman Russ could try to take out the broadsides. Use the weaponsmiths to take out the hammerhead and the other lascannons to take out the riptides.

I must question the land raiders. is it just me or are they not actually leading anything, and if so-how are they taken? they are only DT, not separate choices. and with just 4 monkys, you got not enough to run 2 squads needed for having 2 transports.

And even if you ignore that (or i missed anything), why bother with transports when you are not actually transporting anything?
Land raiders are tough, but they don't really pack any meaningful punch on their own right.

You don't.

your list is illegal or unboud
but if you are insistant upon using it i woudl do this:
Drop kazamarov, the land raiders and cad assassin. bring in 2 additional warbands of 2-3 psykers each (for wounds purposes) and basically beef up your AM list. run AM with Inq allies and shoot stuff with the jaquero, and vindicare (although that is it's own data slate at this point), and use the psykers and inquisitors with divination to TL all of your stuff, especially HW squads or your tanks.

 BoomWolf wrote:
I must question the land raiders. is it just me or are they not actually leading anything, and if so-how are they taken? they are only DT, not separate choices. and with just 4 monkys, you got not enough to run 2 squads needed for having 2 transports.

And even if you ignore that (or i missed anything), why bother with transports when you are not actually transporting anything?
Land raiders are tough, but they don't really pack any meaningful punch on their own right.

Just noticed that, I will bring 2 psykers so it is 2 squads of 2 joakeros and 1 psyker x2 and will drop something.

the land raider redeemer is transporting the AM veterans and an inquisitor with an incenerator who will bring a lot of flame to the tau. the other land raider is included just for high armour which I was hoping Tau could not take out easily.

If I get 1st turn then the callidus assassin will infiltrate 1 inch from the unit of broadsides and the karamazov will target her with a str 10 ap1 large blast taking out her and the unit of broadsides (well thats the plan).

What should I change the land raider for? More joakeros? more henchmen squads in chimeras?

Tau wont take the land raider too easy, but so what?

Its not like its posing any threat anyway. its a glorified paperweight when it transports nothing of value.

And the flamer team is hardly land-raider worthy.


Honestly, you need to return to the drawing board here.
You got a plan for being cool, but your plan is not in any way efficient.

What kind of models do you own, or can potentially use? Basing your whole strategy on going first, and then nuking your own 140pt unit.... seems like you could do something less expensive and prone to failure. The Callidus might not be able to catch Jetpack infantry, if she's not deleted off the board in the first turn either.

There are a ton of Inquisition units that can deliver AP2 (Joakero, Plasma Servitor) for a lot cheaper than a Callidus. You also have fearsome melee that will force the Tau to focus down the Land Raiders. Running 4 kitted squads with Ordo Xenos inquisitors, and dedicated transports, could potentially be a ton of firepower (and outranging Tau without the jetpack move).

If you can't Deepstrike enough units to completely disrupt the Tau backfield, maybe think about a more straightforward strategy -- kill the Pathfinders/Markerlights ASAP, assassinate the Broadsides and tanks with lascannons and plasma cannons, then finally take apart the Riptide in melee.

Trying to get flamers into unscathed Tau lines seems unlikely at best.

It looks like your army is more tank platoon than inquisition list. A few pointers: 1. Don't overdue it on the assasins, they are fun, but 140-150pts sunk into 1 infantry model can be problematic 2. Don't field veterans with cheap special weapons, you should have plasma or melta and maybe a heavy flamer (why even bother with vets if you're going to field regular flamers?) 3. Only take as many inquisitors as you have units to put them in, and taking more than 1 or 2 is investing too many points in fragile characters, Cotaez in particular is only good if you put him in a buff unit (like a bunch of 3++ crusaders and plasma acolytes) 4. The inquisition codex is better as an allied codex for buffing infantry, with so many tanks in your list there is no synergy; you will have trouble if your opponent is expecting heavy armor (they usually are) since you lack durable and/or numerous infantry.

In short, you have far too few models/units for 1850 points.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Tau wont take the land raider too easy, but so what?

Its not like its posing any threat anyway. its a glorified paperweight when it transports nothing of value.

And the flamer team is hardly land-raider worthy.


Honestly, you need to return to the drawing board here.
You got a plan for being cool, but your plan is not in any way efficient.

Becase it offers two twin linked lascannons a multi melta and twin linked str 6 heavy bolter which should remain untouched during the battle.

as Yoyoyo asked, what do you have model-wise? Personally I remember getting much traction out of 3 Flamer warriors in Chimeras, spammed as much as possible, but as you have access to the old 5 firing point chimeras, why not with 5 guys with storm bolters?

Besides which, the Chimeras almost always make better aiming points for Karadread's OSR than just about anything else - the Str6 multiblasts are unlikely to kill it, the Lance strike is a lot of fun (especially if you have the longer barreled multilaser), and they aren't psychic vehicles for the mindstrikes.

Which rules do you use for karadread? does he get to fire the OSR once or multiple times?

If you have your heart set on using assassins, why not a Vindicaire? and if you like going big, why not a fortification? I have gotten much mileage from the Fortress (with Karadread in the tower and the Vindicaire in the Krakstorm), though lately I have been looking at the Aquila Strongpoint.

 carldooley wrote:
as Yoyoyo asked, what do you have model-wise? Personally I remember getting much traction out of 3 Flamer warriors in Chimeras, spammed as much as possible, but as you have access to the old 5 firing point chimeras, why not with 5 guys with storm bolters?

Besides which, the Chimeras almost always make better aiming points for Karadread's OSR than just about anything else - the Str6 multiblasts are unlikely to kill it, the Lance strike is a lot of fun (especially if you have the longer barreled multilaser), and they aren't psychic vehicles for the mindstrikes.

Which rules do you use for karadread? does he get to fire the OSR once or multiple times?

If you have your heart set on using assassins, why not a Vindicaire? and if you like going big, why not a fortification? I have gotten much mileage from the Fortress (with Karadread in the tower and the Vindicaire in the Krakstorm), though lately I have been looking at the Aquila Strongpoint.

I was going to use the vindicare and callidus assassin probably just because i like their fluff and the idea behind them. Model wise I could make about 5 squads of 10 henchmen with meltas or plasma or flamers and I have 5 chimeras about 10 joakeros a few psykers.

If I drop the callidus what should I replace her with? Same with the Land raider if i drop it what should i replace it with?

Like you said, the Land Raider has a lot of good points (AV14, Lascannon and Melta). You also have a lot of good melee units available (including the Callidus) to throw into CC against the Tau.

You could kit out 2-3 Land Raiders with a proper melee threat (Arcoflagellants maybe, to get past that AP2) and concentrate on boxing the Tau in so you can assault them in CC.

Alternatively, you could take about 5 squads in Chimeras, and chip away at the Tau from multiple angles with Joakero Lascannons, Divination Psykers and special weapons from Acolytes or Servitors.

Your HQ, allies and assassins can help, but make sure they support the overall strategy you're going for. You're probably better off with the Orbital Strike, Vindicare and Vanquishers if you plan to shoot it out. If you plan to crush them with a Land Raider assault, you probably want some redundancy, so you can properly trap the Tau and absorb the loss of a vehicle if you get Melta-dropped or immobilized. Which means cheaper HQ's, so you can run bigger squads and more Land Raiders.

Either way, you need to commit definitively to your plan -- you have some good ideas, but you are better off with strong assaulters or a strong shooting force, and not a less effective mix of both. Having redundancy also means your strategy can absorb losses and bad luck (like going second). Because it is bound to happen!

Yoyoyo wrote:
Like you said, the Land Raider has a lot of good points (AV14, Lascannon and Melta). You also have a lot of good melee units available (including the Callidus) to throw into CC against the Tau.

You could kit out 2-3 Land Raiders with a proper melee threat (Arcoflagellants maybe, to get past that AP2) and concentrate on boxing the Tau in so you can assault them in CC.

Alternatively, you could take about 5 squads in Chimeras, and chip away at the Tau from multiple angles with Joakero Lascannons, Divination Psykers and special weapons from Acolytes or Servitors.

Your HQ, allies and assassins can help, but make sure they support the overall strategy you're going for. You're probably better off with the Orbital Strike, Vindicare and Vanquishers if you plan to shoot it out. If you plan to crush them with a Land Raider assault, you probably want some redundancy, so you can properly trap the Tau and absorb the loss of a vehicle if you get Melta-dropped or immobilized. Which means cheaper HQ's, so you can run bigger squads and more Land Raiders.

Either way, you need to commit definitively to your plan -- you have some good ideas, but you are better off with strong assaulters or a strong shooting force, and not a less effective mix of both. Having redundancy also means your strategy can absorb losses and bad luck (like going second). Because it is bound to happen!

I played the game today and it went rather well. My army list consisted of

Karamazov
Coteaz
land Raider
Land Raider Redeemer
Vindicare assassin
Callidus Assassin
2 Joakeros
1 psyker
3 warrior acoloytes
Aegis defence line
Allies

veteran squad
leman russ vanquisher (tank commander) (camo netting)
Leman russ battle tank(camo netting)
leman russ battle tank (heavy support option)(camo netting)

My opponent had a riptide, broadsides and other 4 suits units that I forgot the name that deap strike in and have melta and plasma and also his hq had this long sword.

I got first turn and infiltrated my callidus assassin 1 inch away from 3 broadsides. In my first turn I used Karamazov to use a str 10 ap1 large blast and shoot my own assassin which meant all 3 broadsides were hit and killed (killed my assassin but my assassin was worth 140 points whiolst the 3 broadsides were worth 265 pts)

i then just used battle cannon fire and tore most of his other units apart. Every time his suits deep struck behind my vehicles I had coteaz's squad there to intercept (2 joakeros and karamazov) and I would then in my turn just move a tank 1 inch from his squad and get karamazov to fire d3 str 6 blasts at my own tank which couldnt hurt my tank but sunk a lot of wounds into the deep striking suits inevitably killing them.

I won quite easily but a major reason was because I had first turn and I have 3 ordanance high str low ap weapons that caused a lot of damage.

I actually quite like the orbital on the callidus. That's a good idea I support lol. If only my local area allowed multiple orbitals from Karamazov... maybe I can talk them into it hahaha

Also of note, this would work against even invisible death stars (well centurions especially but would have some impact on scream stars and also some eldar bikestars. Not sure how it'd hold up vs the new crons however.

 sudojoe wrote:
I actually quite like the orbital on the callidus. That's a good idea I support lol. If only my local area allowed multiple orbitals from Karamazov... maybe I can talk them into it hahaha

Also of note, this would work against even invisible death stars (well centurions especially but would have some impact on scream stars and also some eldar bikestars. Not sure how it'd hold up vs the new crons however.

Yep karamazov and the callidus assassin and first turn will usually result in the opponents cheese unit being automatically hit by the assassins ap2 flame template and then hit automatically by a str 10 ap1 ordanance blast lol and the great thing is that the assassin has a 50% chance of surviving due to a 4+ invun.


How come your gaming group doesnt allow multiple orbital strikes? Reading the weapon profile in the codex it doesnt say anything about 1 time use for the orbital strikes.

champagne_socialist wrote:

I won quite easily but a major reason was because I had first turn and I have 3 ordanance high str low ap weapons that caused a lot of damage.

Sounds like things really went your way. Did the Tau player kill anything? I'm a little surprised with all that firepower (even with a 265pt Broadside team dead, 1st turn) he didn't disrupt your strategy at all.

But congrats on making a risky combo work for you. Too bad your Callidus didn't survive -- that would have been infuriatingly troll-worthy.

Yoyoyo wrote:

champagne_socialist wrote:

I won quite easily but a major reason was because I had first turn and I have 3 ordanance high str low ap weapons that caused a lot of damage.

Sounds like things really went your way. Did the Tau player kill anything? I'm a little surprised with all that firepower (even with a 265pt Broadside team dead, 1st turn) he didn't disrupt your strategy at all.

But congrats on making a risky combo work for you. Too bad your Callidus didn't survive -- that would have been infuriatingly troll-worthy.

Well I nearly tabled him first turn because i took out his broadsides and I took out 6 suits with my leman russ battle tanks and all he had left was a riptide with 1 wound on the table. he deep struck about 50% of his army but because I had a callidus assassin in my army he got -3 to his first reserve roll so he only managed to get 1 unit to deep strike on his turn 2 which was a team of suits with meltas and his hq they deep struck behind my 2 leman russ tanks and dished out 5 hull points so 1 tank was destroyed and the other was immobiled and stunned but 1 hull point remaining and then I took out that unit and his riptide in my turn 3 and it was basically end of game then.

He took out a few AM veterans a leman russ tank and 2 joakeros. I killed my own assassin and my psyker got killed due to perils so I lost about 350 points worth of models.

champagne_socialist wrote:

 sudojoe wrote:
I actually quite like the orbital on the callidus. That's a good idea I support lol. If only my local area allowed multiple orbitals from Karamazov... maybe I can talk them into it hahaha

Also of note, this would work against even invisible death stars (well centurions especially but would have some impact on scream stars and also some eldar bikestars. Not sure how it'd hold up vs the new crons however.

Yep karamazov and the callidus assassin and first turn will usually result in the opponents cheese unit being automatically hit by the assassins ap2 flame template and then hit automatically by a str 10 ap1 ordanance blast lol and the great thing is that the assassin has a 50% chance of surviving due to a 4+ invun.


How come your gaming group doesnt allow multiple orbital strikes? Reading the weapon profile in the codex it doesnt say anything about 1 time use for the orbital strikes.

ORBITAL STRIKE RELAY It is rare for the Inquisition to fight without some form of orbital support craft. To
ensure accurate orbital barrages, Inquisitors often carry an orbital strike relay to provide the fleet vessels with targeting data. Once per game, the bearer can call down an orbital strike in his Shooting phase. This counts as firing a ranged weapon with one of the profiles below. This does not prevent the Warlord and his unit from declaring a charge against the target unit that turn.

It says it in the text : Once per game so I'm not sure what is giving the ability to fire it multiple times.

karamazov Has his own rules no?

Edit: nvm its the wargear orbital strike relay

Which im looking in the wargear profile section does not have the once per game thing.

 Desubot wrote:
karamazov Has his own rules no?

Edit: nvm its the wargear orbital strike relay

Which im looking in the wargear profile section does not have the once per game thing.

By Any Means Necessary: When Inquisitor Karamazov’s orbital strike relay is ‘fired’, you can choose to place the template so its centre is over a friendly model, rather than an enemy – even if that friendly model is in combat. If you do so, the shot does not scatter. All models under the template are hit as normal.

Doesn't seem to say to me to allow him to keep shooting it.

Da feth does that have to do with anything?


Orbital Strike Relay does not have a "once use only" rule.

It takes place of shooting a regular shot if he wants too

Then when he fires it, he can choose to place the template over a friendly instead.

They way I see it, you have two options:

1) Spam jokaero and fervently pray to the dice gods

2) bribe your opponent with Monopoly money. If he realizes that it is Monopoly money, offer it as a front-loaded loan in the next game of Monopoly that you two play

 Desubot wrote:
Da feth does that have to do with anything?


Orbital Strike Relay does not have a "once use only" rule.

It takes place of shooting a regular shot if he wants too

Then when he fires it, he can choose to place the template over a friendly instead.

I'm not following, it says it in the weapon rule I quoted above that it says "Once per game" Does that not count towards it? Does it have to say in the weapon profile itself to make it a rule? I mean relics and their special rules aren't in the weapons box and all in the text. I don't see it as any different unless they changed something?

 sudojoe wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Da feth does that have to do with anything?


Orbital Strike Relay does not have a "once use only" rule.

It takes place of shooting a regular shot if he wants too

Then when he fires it, he can choose to place the template over a friendly instead.

I'm not following, it says it in the weapon rule I quoted above that it says "Once per game" Does that not count towards it? Does it have to say in the weapon profile itself to make it a rule? I mean relics and their special rules aren't in the weapons box and all in the text. I don't see it as any different unless they changed something?

Codex inquistion: Page 101
Orbital Strike Relay
The bearer can call down an orbital strike in his Shooting phase. This counts as firing a ranged weapon with one of the profiles below. This does not prevent the Warlord and his unit from declaring a charge against the target unit that turn

no "once per game"

By Any means Nessary: When inquisitor Karamazov OSR is fired he can chose to place the tempalte so it center over a friendly,... if you do so shot no scatter.

Still no Once per game.

Are you reading some older book?

Edit: This is a full re download from Black Lib because i didnt have it on this computer so this is the most recent version.

 Desubot wrote:

 sudojoe wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Da feth does that have to do with anything?


Orbital Strike Relay does not have a "once use only" rule.

It takes place of shooting a regular shot if he wants too

Then when he fires it, he can choose to place the template over a friendly instead.

I'm not following, it says it in the weapon rule I quoted above that it says "Once per game" Does that not count towards it? Does it have to say in the weapon profile itself to make it a rule? I mean relics and their special rules aren't in the weapons box and all in the text. I don't see it as any different unless they changed something?

Codex inquistion: Page 101
Orbital Strike Relay
The bearer can call down an orbital strike in his Shooting phase. This counts as firing a ranged weapon with one of the profiles below. This does not prevent the Warlord and his unit from declaring a charge against the target unit that turn

no "once per game"

By Any means Nessary: When inquisitor Karamazov OSR is fired he can chose to place the tempalte so it center over a friendly,... if you do so shot no scatter.

Still no Once per game.

Are you reading some older book?

Edit: This is a full re download from Black Lib because i didnt have it on this computer so this is the most recent version.

ye same thing in my codex, no once per use mention at all.

Ahh that must be it. I had the old first edition one. I guess they changed the wording. Nice!

Thought it must have been an edition issue. ( I never actually went back to check for updates)

They didn't happen to change the force org chart did they ?

sorry. the edition change is what I was asking about. If you want added hijinks with Karadread, get a Valkyrie for one of your warrior squads (which I believe is valid - I haven't looked at the Inq Codex lately).
By any means necessary - target friendly models
Flyer rules - wings and fuselage can be placed over other (enemy) models.
Zooming rules - cannot be hit by blasts or templates.

I called it the 'Bank Shot' - Karadread in a tower (unassaultable by the enemy) calling OSRs down on my fliers (which are immune to the strikes), but placed so the wings are over the models I want to hit. Just an idea.

Edit - oh and the reason to take a Vindicaire was if you dedicate him to a fortification's weapon (Fortress's Frag\Krakstorm or Aquila Strongpoint's Macro Cannon\Vortex Missile) was twofold. First, his BS would reduce scatter quite a bit. Second, you can apply a unit's special rules (deadshot) to the weapon. drop the template on an enemy unit, and pile all the wounds on the models you want to kill (remember with blobs - the allocated models have to be in the unit, but they don't have to be under the template), and No Escape matters for this too.

edit2 - a Fortress of Redemption with Krakstorm upgrade costs the same as a naked Land Raider.