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HQ

Farseer (runes of witnessing, spirit stone) - 130

Spirit seer - 70

Troops

2 * 2 Windriders (canons) - 61

Elites

5 Fire dragons (Exarch, fast shot) - 130 (in transport)
5 Wraithguard (d-sythes) - 210 (in transport)


Fast attack

2 * 7 warp spiders - 133

Transports

2 * wave serpents (scatter, canon, holo) - 145

Heavy support

3 * 3 war walkers (scatter or other point equivalent) - 210

Total - 1848

This list is for competitive non-tournament play, ideas? Also is it too cheesy?

Looks quite good.
I'd mount the Farseer on a jetbike.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Looks quite good.
I'd mount the Farseer on a jetbike.

The reason I haven't done that is because the seer's main job is to twin link the walkers at the back so he doesn't need to move much

Bike and mantle would help him survive on his own in the back. The walkers don't really need him though...

Zippokovich wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Looks quite good.
I'd mount the Farseer on a jetbike.

The reason I haven't done that is because the seer's main job is to twin link the walkers at the back so he doesn't need to move much

What if you need to outflank the walkers?

 extremefreak17 wrote:

Zippokovich wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Looks quite good.
I'd mount the Farseer on a jetbike.

The reason I haven't done that is because the seer's main job is to twin link the walkers at the back so he doesn't need to move much

What if you need to outflank the walkers?

I've always just set them up on a gunline - dont like the randomness of reserves

I do like the idea of the seer on a bike as a model though - im looking into converting a vyper - then i just need to find the points!

You could drop the spirit stone for the bike, unless you want to summon or get off a lot of level 2 powers. Same price point. It also gives the seer a 3+ and T4, so Str6 and 7 won't instakill him anymore.

To me, this list is relatively weak.

I don't think you'd win more than one game out of ten against one of my lists with that.

On to the obvious inefficiencies:

1. Two HQ choices. We Eldar don't have competitive HQ choices anymore, taking two makes this a lot worse. I favor naked 70 point HQs, either Autarch for the flexibility or Spiritseers for the occasional invisibility/shrouding troll and DTW dice.

2. Options on the Fire Dragons. 5 Fire Dragons deal acceptably well with many things, cost 110 points and that's more than expensive enough for a unit that will disembark, shoot and then die most of the time.

3. D-Scythes. They sound awesome with their AP2 flamers. Unfortunately they cost a fuckton, aren't really resilient and when you deploy them, you will lose 370 points the next turn, for the Guards and the Wave Serpent which is now way too close for safety.

4. War Walkers in units of three. AV10 means that any unit shooting at them will kill one and maybe three. That means you don't want them at all, they're excellent dakka for the price, will do alpha striking from the flanks just fine, but they have zero durability and against most competitive lists, they will just end up being shredded.


Other than that, if you're going against lists that are on the same level, the list is acceptably balanced, with a possible weakness against air that can be remedied with the loadout on the war walkers.

morgoth wrote:
To me, this list is relatively weak.

I don't think you'd win more than one game out of ten against one of my lists with that.

On to the obvious inefficiencies:

1. Two HQ choices. We Eldar don't have competitive HQ choices anymore, taking two makes this a lot worse. I favor naked 70 point HQs, either Autarch for the flexibility or Spiritseers for the occasional invisibility/shrouding troll and DTW dice.

2. Options on the Fire Dragons. 5 Fire Dragons deal acceptably well with many things, cost 110 points and that's more than expensive enough for a unit that will disembark, shoot and then die most of the time.

3. D-Scythes. They sound awesome with their AP2 flamers. Unfortunately they cost a fuckton, aren't really resilient and when you deploy them, you will lose 370 points the next turn, for the Guards and the Wave Serpent which is now way too close for safety.

4. War Walkers in units of three. AV10 means that any unit shooting at them will kill one and maybe three. That means you don't want them at all, they're excellent dakka for the price, will do alpha striking from the flanks just fine, but they have zero durability and against most competitive lists, they will just end up being shredded.


Other than that, if you're going against lists that are on the same level, the list is acceptably balanced, with a possible weakness against air that can be remedied with the loadout on the war walkers.

Jeez, this is a fairly competitive list; it needs a few tweaks sure, but just because 'your list would beat this one 9 times out of 10' doesn't mean that this is a bad list. And besides, I'm sure you would lose more than you think.

1. 2 HQ choices can be effective depending on what they have synergy with. -- In this case, I would advise dropping the farseer unless you feel that you'll need guide or some extra warp charges for denial.

2. That loadout isn't considered the best one for fire dragons, most people just go with adding another stock fire dragon in lieu of the exarch. The exarch does have 2 BS5 shots though -- this decision is up to your playstyle

3. D-scythes will either be extremely effective or not have a place in the list. I think they fit well into the list because they can inflict ID to multi wound models that your average S6 shooting can't deal with

4. War walkers in groups of 3 is a bit risky, especially if you are taking 3 squads of them. I would agree in lowering them to 2 each and vary the loadout; take some with Scatter/scatter and some with scatter/starcannon.

All in all this is a fairly competitive list. My last bit of advice would be to buy another wave serpent with 5 dire avengers using the points left over from the war walkers.

Best of luck!

I disagree, play this list a couple of times, you will learn how to make it work better each time. War walkers in units of 3 are not a "bad" idea, just that it makes them harder to hide, depending on the terrain or range of opponent weapons ymmv.

I would drop the spiritseer and the cannons on the bikes and spirit stones, then just buy another farseer.

Having 2 farseers gives you a better chance of getting what you want, mainly shrouding/fortune/guide/doom.

 Arbiter wrote:
I disagree, play this list a couple of times, you will learn how to make it work better each time. War walkers in units of 3 are not a "bad" idea, just that it makes them harder to hide, depending on the terrain or range of opponent weapons ymmv.

I would drop the spiritseer and the cannons on the bikes and spirit stones, then just buy another farseer.

Having 2 farseers gives you a better chance of getting what you want, mainly shrouding/fortune/guide/doom.

I've played it a few times with 2 farseers but wanted a spiritseer to make the guard troops. Having 2 seers seemed a bit of a waste for what they did but I will experiment with the spiritseer and see.

I've had 4 battles with the walkers (1 with 3 units and 3 with 2 units) and they have been the top performing units in all of the games, having so many at long range (and almost always in cover) has helped stop the opponent denting them too badly. One of the units is made up of the old models too which have smaller bases and are easier to hide

Really the whole army is built around them (and getting as many S6+ dice per turn as possible). I don't dig wraithknights either so there is really no other comparable choice in the heavy slot.

There you have it.

 Helvost wrote:

morgoth wrote:
To me, this list is relatively weak.

I don't think you'd win more than one game out of ten against one of my lists with that.

On to the obvious inefficiencies:

1. Two HQ choices. We Eldar don't have competitive HQ choices anymore, taking two makes this a lot worse. I favor naked 70 point HQs, either Autarch for the flexibility or Spiritseers for the occasional invisibility/shrouding troll and DTW dice.

2. Options on the Fire Dragons. 5 Fire Dragons deal acceptably well with many things, cost 110 points and that's more than expensive enough for a unit that will disembark, shoot and then die most of the time.

3. D-Scythes. They sound awesome with their AP2 flamers. Unfortunately they cost a fuckton, aren't really resilient and when you deploy them, you will lose 370 points the next turn, for the Guards and the Wave Serpent which is now way too close for safety.

4. War Walkers in units of three. AV10 means that any unit shooting at them will kill one and maybe three. That means you don't want them at all, they're excellent dakka for the price, will do alpha striking from the flanks just fine, but they have zero durability and against most competitive lists, they will just end up being shredded.


Other than that, if you're going against lists that are on the same level, the list is acceptably balanced, with a possible weakness against air that can be remedied with the loadout on the war walkers.

Jeez, this is a fairly competitive list; it needs a few tweaks sure, but just because 'your list would beat this one 9 times out of 10' doesn't mean that this is a bad list. And besides, I'm sure you would lose more than you think.

1. 2 HQ choices can be effective depending on what they have synergy with. -- In this case, I would advise dropping the farseer unless you feel that you'll need guide or some extra warp charges for denial.

2. That loadout isn't considered the best one for fire dragons, most people just go with adding another stock fire dragon in lieu of the exarch. The exarch does have 2 BS5 shots though -- this decision is up to your playstyle

3. D-scythes will either be extremely effective or not have a place in the list. I think they fit well into the list because they can inflict ID to multi wound models that your average S6 shooting can't deal with

4. War walkers in groups of 3 is a bit risky, especially if you are taking 3 squads of them. I would agree in lowering them to 2 each and vary the loadout; take some with Scatter/scatter and some with scatter/starcannon.

All in all this is a fairly competitive list. My last bit of advice would be to buy another wave serpent with 5 dire avengers using the points left over from the war walkers.

Best of luck!

1. Effective, yes, optimal, never. Not by a long shot.
2. It's 20 points lost to increase the reliability of a unit that is situational and already too expensive.
3. So what's your best case scenario ? Because the worst case is 370 points dead the turn they disembark, and it's pretty much the norm too.
4. Still too fragile.


In other words, yes this list is not absolute garbage, but it's miles from what I would bring to a tournament and it doesn't stand a chance without the dice factor.


And to the OP, hiding smaller base older models is modelling for an advantage. It's bad, mkay.

morgoth wrote:

1. Effective, yes, optimal, never. Not by a long shot.
2. It's 20 points lost to increase the reliability of a unit that is situational and already too expensive.
3. So what's your best case scenario ? Because the worst case is 370 points dead the turn they disembark, and it's pretty much the norm too.
4. Still too fragile.


In other words, yes this list is not absolute garbage, but it's miles from what I would bring to a tournament and it doesn't stand a chance without the dice factor.


And to the OP, hiding smaller base older models is modelling for an advantage. It's bad, mkay.

This is specifically not a tournament list and the small bases might give me a small advantage but I'm not spending another £50 to replace models I already own - none of my opponents have had a problem with it.

2. As for the dragons - I proxy fugen as the exarch so I am happy to spend those 20 points to fit the models I have.
3. Still experimenting with the scythes - will prob take them dependant on what the enemy has and replace with an extra unit of bikes when they are not in play
4. I've had a few more games with 3*3 walkers and they are still dominant. I had a tyranid player make a concerted attempt to kill them off and he managed to kill 8 by the end of the game but by that point they had already killed their points back and I won. I'm actually have a list where one unit is replaced by a fire prism because 3*3 is too cheesy for some battles. I really don't dig wraithknights so there is no other heavy option that even comes close.

Hey good for you if you're having fun with this list, I was just pointing out how your list can be less competitive

morgoth wrote:
Hey good for you if you're having fun with this list, I was just pointing out how your list can be less competitive

My local tournament is later on in the year so I will post again then looking for ways to really make things efficient Thanks of the advice!