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Heres the situation.

Landraider blows up(explosion) a chimeria with it's MM and LC. Can I power of the machine spirit to shoot the melta vets inside with the twin linked heavy bolter?
Per the shooting rules this is normal not allowed but POTMS states I can select a new target. My friend was trying to argue something about "it's all happening simo" but could not locate any rule to back up his claim.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Heres the situation.

Landraider blows up(explosion) a chimeria with it's MM and LC. Can I power of the machine spirit to shoot the melta vets inside with the twin linked heavy bolter?
Per the shooting rules this is normal not allowed but POTMS states I can select a new target. My friend was trying to argue something about "it's all happening simo" but could not locate any rule to back up his claim.

All targets for your unit are declared at the same time. Since the melta vets are not viable targets when you declare, you can't select them.
PotMS allows you to select a new target, but doesn't allow you to go back to the "pick a target" step of shooting.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Heres the situation.

Landraider blows up(explosion) a chimeria with it's MM and LC. Can I power of the machine spirit to shoot the melta vets inside with the twin linked heavy bolter?
Per the shooting rules this is normal not allowed but POTMS states I can select a new target. My friend was trying to argue something about "it's all happening simo" but could not locate any rule to back up his claim.

All targets for your unit are declared at the same time. Since the melta vets are not viable targets when you declare, you can't select them.
PotMS allows you to select a new target, but doesn't allow you to go back to the "pick a target" step of shooting.

You don't think the "you can select a new target" starts this process all over again?

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Heres the situation.

Landraider blows up(explosion) a chimeria with it's MM and LC. Can I power of the machine spirit to shoot the melta vets inside with the twin linked heavy bolter?
Per the shooting rules this is normal not allowed but POTMS states I can select a new target. My friend was trying to argue something about "it's all happening simo" but could not locate any rule to back up his claim.

All targets for your unit are declared at the same time. Since the melta vets are not viable targets when you declare, you can't select them.
PotMS allows you to select a new target, but doesn't allow you to go back to the "pick a target" step of shooting.

You don't think the "you can select a new target" starts this process all over again?

No, I don't. Because the actual rule (I was paraphrasing) is:
"In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

Different target, subject to the normal rules for shooting. There's no permission to start the process over again. You have to declare all targets at the same time.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Heres the situation.

Landraider blows up(explosion) a chimeria with it's MM and LC. Can I power of the machine spirit to shoot the melta vets inside with the twin linked heavy bolter?
Per the shooting rules this is normal not allowed but POTMS states I can select a new target. My friend was trying to argue something about "it's all happening simo" but could not locate any rule to back up his claim.

All targets for your unit are declared at the same time. Since the melta vets are not viable targets when you declare, you can't select them.
PotMS allows you to select a new target, but doesn't allow you to go back to the "pick a target" step of shooting.

You don't think the "you can select a new target" starts this process all over again?

No, I don't. Because the actual rule (I was paraphrasing) is:
"In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

Different target, subject to the normal rules for shooting. There's no permission to start the process over again. You have to declare all targets at the same time.

Are you suggesting that I have to declare potms at the beginning of shooting the LR?

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Heres the situation.

Landraider blows up(explosion) a chimeria with it's MM and LC. Can I power of the machine spirit to shoot the melta vets inside with the twin linked heavy bolter?
Per the shooting rules this is normal not allowed but POTMS states I can select a new target. My friend was trying to argue something about "it's all happening simo" but could not locate any rule to back up his claim.

All targets for your unit are declared at the same time. Since the melta vets are not viable targets when you declare, you can't select them.
PotMS allows you to select a new target, but doesn't allow you to go back to the "pick a target" step of shooting.

You don't think the "you can select a new target" starts this process all over again?

No, I don't. Because the actual rule (I was paraphrasing) is:
"In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

Different target, subject to the normal rules for shooting. There's no permission to start the process over again. You have to declare all targets at the same time.

Are you suggesting that I have to declare potms at the beginning of shooting the LR?

Well, yes. Since it's subject to all the normal rules for shooting.
Do you think the rules say otherwise? Why do you think so? Do you have any rules based evidence for thinking otherwise?

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Heres the situation.

Landraider blows up(explosion) a chimeria with it's MM and LC. Can I power of the machine spirit to shoot the melta vets inside with the twin linked heavy bolter?
Per the shooting rules this is normal not allowed but POTMS states I can select a new target. My friend was trying to argue something about "it's all happening simo" but could not locate any rule to back up his claim.

All targets for your unit are declared at the same time. Since the melta vets are not viable targets when you declare, you can't select them.
PotMS allows you to select a new target, but doesn't allow you to go back to the "pick a target" step of shooting.

You don't think the "you can select a new target" starts this process all over again?

No, I don't. Because the actual rule (I was paraphrasing) is:
"In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

Different target, subject to the normal rules for shooting. There's no permission to start the process over again. You have to declare all targets at the same time.

Are you suggesting that I have to declare potms at the beginning of shooting the LR?

Well, yes. Since it's subject to all the normal rules for shooting.
Do you think the rules say otherwise? Why do you think so? Do you have any rules based evidence for thinking otherwise?

Don't have the rule book in front of me but in the part that goes over how to resolve multiple weapons systems. It states to fire a weapon system completely and then move onto the next weapon system. So I was assuming that if potms allowed that next weapons system to choose a new target, that the target could be chosen at that point with the new target available (as you resolve the damage from the previous weapon system before you move onto the next weapon system.) Maybe it was just wishful thinking but I didn't see any reason why it shouldn't be done this way. If the pick a target step states that you must declare multiple target allocations first then I'm def wrong.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me but in the part that goes over how to resolve multiple weapons systems. It states to fire a weapon system completely and then move onto the next weapon system.

I see absolutely nothing in the vehicle shooting rules that comes even close to what you're saying. The closest would be the normal shooting rules where you resolve one type of weapon at a time, but even then it does not take effect until after you have chosen a target.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me

Then stop until you do.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me but in the part that goes over how to resolve multiple weapons systems. It states to fire a weapon system completely and then move onto the next weapon system.

I see absolutely nothing in the vehicle shooting rules that comes even close to what you're saying. The closest would be the normal shooting rules where you resolve one type of weapon at a time, but even then it does not take effect until after you have chosen a target.

I was referring to the normal shooting rules. I was paraphrasing. Does the pick a target rule state I have to select "all" targets or "a" target? Again I don't have a rulebook on me atm.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me

Then stop until you do.

K thanks, what is the purpose of this comment? I have a question while im at work so I can't ask dakka for help in answering it cause I don't have a book?

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me

Then stop until you do.

K thanks, what is the purpose of this comment? I have a question while im at work so I can't ask dakka for help in answering it cause I don't have a book?

We aren't a replacement for the rulebook. The rulebook would answer this for you 100%.

There's no basis for your argument here using the actual rules and not paraphrased, half remembered rules. If I tell you that the rules don't allow it (with a rulebook quote) and you're going off of memory, maybe you should be patient and wait till you have a rulebook before continuing the argument?

It doesn't matter if it says "all" or "an". PotMS doesn't allow you to restart the shooting process - it simply allows you to fire at a different target with the weapon you shoot. You're not forced to, but you can't elect to go back and change your target halfway through the shooting phase.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me but in the part that goes over how to resolve multiple weapons systems. It states to fire a weapon system completely and then move onto the next weapon system.

I see absolutely nothing in the vehicle shooting rules that comes even close to what you're saying. The closest would be the normal shooting rules where you resolve one type of weapon at a time, but even then it does not take effect until after you have chosen a target.

I was referring to the normal shooting rules. I was paraphrasing. Does the pick a target rule state I have to select "all" targets or "a" target? Again I don't have a rulebook on me atm.

Why would the normal rules say anything about multiple targets when they only allow you to choose a single target? If you had your rulebook you'd know that. The Power of the Machine Spirit simply allows you to choose a different target for that one weapon. You choose your target before you resolve any firing by the unit. Your scenario requires it to change or ignore more of the normal rules for shooting than is allowed.

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me

Then stop until you do.

K thanks, what is the purpose of this comment? I have a question while im at work so I can't ask dakka for help in answering it cause I don't have a book?

Its because we're not a replacement for the rulebook. Your entire question could have been answered by reading the rules instead of basing your entire argument on what you think you remember the rules saying and disagreeing with someone who actually has the rules in front of them.

It's like split fire. You can't say you're shooting two targets, then if the first target doesn't die say you want all of them to shoot it instead.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me but in the part that goes over how to resolve multiple weapons systems. It states to fire a weapon system completely and then move onto the next weapon system.

I see absolutely nothing in the vehicle shooting rules that comes even close to what you're saying. The closest would be the normal shooting rules where you resolve one type of weapon at a time, but even then it does not take effect until after you have chosen a target.

I was referring to the normal shooting rules. I was paraphrasing. Does the pick a target rule state I have to select "all" targets or "a" target? Again I don't have a rulebook on me atm.

Why would the normal rules say anything about multiple targets when they only allow you to choose a single target? If you had your rulebook you'd know that. The Power of the Machine Spirit simply allows you to choose a different target for that one weapon. You choose your target before you resolve any firing by the unit. Your scenario requires it to change or ignore more of the normal rules for shooting than is allowed.

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Don't have the rule book in front of me

Then stop until you do.

K thanks, what is the purpose of this comment? I have a question while im at work so I can't ask dakka for help in answering it cause I don't have a book?

Its because we're not a replacement for the rulebook. Your entire question could have been answered by reading the rules instead of basing your entire argument on what you think you remember the rules saying and disagreeing with someone who actually has the rules in front of them.

I fail to understand how the pick a target section of the shooting phase has any relevance to this topic. It says nothing of shooting at multiple targets, so how can you conclude that all targets from a multiple target unit must be made at the same time. In fact, I'd argue they must be made separately because it doesn't describe how to handle multiple target situations. This to me assume that all shooting attacks with different targets are resolved separately. Feel free to argue your point - I'd really like to see your logic though. Quote me the ruling that says POTMS must be declared in the pick a target phase.

Its the only section of the rules that have anything to do with picking a target at all. So why does a rule that allows you to pick more than one target change any rule that doesn't have to do with picking a target?

 Xenomancers wrote:
I fail to understand how the pick a target section of the shooting phase has any relevance to this topic. It says nothing of shooting at multiple targets, so how can you conclude that all targets from a multiple target unit must be made at the same time. In fact, I'd argue they must be made separately because it doesn't describe how to handle multiple target situations. This to me assume that all shooting attacks with different targets are resolved separately. Feel free to argue your point - I'd really like to see your logic though. Quote me the ruling that says POTMS must be declared in the pick a target phase.

Sure - I already have though.

"In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

What are the normal rules for shooting? Please wait to answer until you have a rulebook in front of you - paraphrasing is not acceptable when you're attempting to challenge the actual rules as they're written.

 Ghaz wrote:
Its the only section of the rules that have anything to do with picking a target at all. So why does a rule that allows you to pick more than one target change any rule that doesn't have to do with picking a target?

Because it says to pick one target. Not "two" or "all" or "targets". Does that make sense?

Yes. Now find the specific rule, in the normal rules for shooting, that lets you pick another target having already gone through the entire shooting sequence. Well wait while you do so

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Its the only section of the rules that have anything to do with picking a target at all. So why does a rule that allows you to pick more than one target change any rule that doesn't have to do with picking a target?

Because it says to pick one target. Not "two" or "all" or "targets". Does that make sense?

Yes, that is the one rule that Power of the Machine Spirit changes as a special rule because its wording specifically allows us to do so. Now tell us why your changing other rules that wording of Power of the Machine Spirit says nothing about.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I fail to understand how the pick a target section of the shooting phase has any relevance to this topic. It says nothing of shooting at multiple targets, so how can you conclude that all targets from a multiple target unit must be made at the same time. In fact, I'd argue they must be made separately because it doesn't describe how to handle multiple target situations. This to me assume that all shooting attacks with different targets are resolved separately. Feel free to argue your point - I'd really like to see your logic though. Quote me the ruling that says POTMS must be declared in the pick a target phase.

Sure - I already have though.

"In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

What are the normal rules for shooting? Please wait to answer until you have a rulebook in front of you - paraphrasing is not acceptable when you're attempting to challenge the actual rules as they're written.

Normal rules for shooting in italics. I suppose that means that's your clincher? Okay - the normal rules for shooting start by...picking a target. So you have an instance of standard fire picking a target and an instance of POTMS picking a target. These are separate events and therefore resolved separately with resolution of one before the other. Explain how my statement is false or stop arguing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yes. Now find the specific rule, in the normal rules for shooting, that lets you pick another target having already gone through the entire shooting sequence. Well wait while you do so

That rule is called POTMS?

POTMS doesn't tell you to go through the entire process and then start over with the next target.

All it does is allow you to pick two targets instead of one.

The rest of the process remains the same as normal.

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I fail to understand how the pick a target section of the shooting phase has any relevance to this topic. It says nothing of shooting at multiple targets, so how can you conclude that all targets from a multiple target unit must be made at the same time. In fact, I'd argue they must be made separately because it doesn't describe how to handle multiple target situations. This to me assume that all shooting attacks with different targets are resolved separately. Feel free to argue your point - I'd really like to see your logic though. Quote me the ruling that says POTMS must be declared in the pick a target phase.

Sure - I already have though.

"In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

What are the normal rules for shooting? Please wait to answer until you have a rulebook in front of you - paraphrasing is not acceptable when you're attempting to challenge the actual rules as they're written.

Normal rules for shooting in italics. I suppose that means that's your clincher? Okay - the normal rules for shooting start by...picking a target. So you have an instance of standard fire picking a target and an instance of POTMS picking a target.

No, you have the normal rules for shooting, which is to pick a target. PotMS requires you to follow the normal rules for shooting - which means you pick two targets. It doesn' t mean you fire all but one gun and then decide to PotMS whatever you want.

These are separate events and therefore resolved separately with resolution of one before the other. Explain how my statement is false or stop arguing.

I have - repeatedly. Despite your inability to quote a single rule supporting your point, you continue to argue.
I agree that the picking a target is resolved separately. You have no rules basis to assert that you resolve all of a shooting step and then PotMS.
"In a turn in which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor uses smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted."
It's not a separate thing. It's "in addition". Like I said - having the rulebook would help you instead of stubbornly refusing the fact that you'd be wrong.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
I fail to understand how the pick a target section of the shooting phase has any relevance to this topic. It says nothing of shooting at multiple targets, so how can you conclude that all targets from a multiple target unit must be made at the same time. In fact, I'd argue they must be made separately because it doesn't describe how to handle multiple target situations. This to me assume that all shooting attacks with different targets are resolved separately. Feel free to argue your point - I'd really like to see your logic though. Quote me the ruling that says POTMS must be declared in the pick a target phase.

Sure - I already have though.

"In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

What are the normal rules for shooting? Please wait to answer until you have a rulebook in front of you - paraphrasing is not acceptable when you're attempting to challenge the actual rules as they're written.

Normal rules for shooting in italics. I suppose that means that's your clincher? Okay - the normal rules for shooting start by...picking a target. So you have an instance of standard fire picking a target and an instance of POTMS picking a target.

No, you have the normal rules for shooting, which is to pick a target. PotMS requires you to follow the normal rules for shooting - which means you pick two targets. It doesn' t mean you fire all but one gun and then decide to PotMS whatever you want.

These are separate events and therefore resolved separately with resolution of one before the other. Explain how my statement is false or stop arguing.

I have - repeatedly. Despite your inability to quote a single rule supporting your point, you continue to argue.
I agree that the picking a target is resolved separately. You have no rules basis to assert that you resolve all of a shooting step and then PotMS.
"In a turn in which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor uses smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted."
It's not a separate thing. It's "in addition". Like I said - having the rulebook would help you instead of stubbornly refusing the fact that you'd be wrong.

Alright I've got the rulebook in hand now.

Lets first examine the split fire rule...They are in essence the exact same rule - maybe we can infer something from it's wording.

"...one model in the unit can shoot at a different target to the rest of his unit. Once this shooting attack has been resolved, resolve the shooting attacks made by the rest of the unit. These must be at a different target, which can not be a unit forced to disembark as the result of splitfiring unit's initial shooting attack."

() Interesting - it states specifically that you CAN NOT fire at a unit forced to disembark from a transport as the result of split firing. Also no mention of following the normal rules for shooting - in fact - it spells out exactly how to manage the next target selection. It states the split fire shot must be made first then gives conditions for the second target.

POTMS does none of this.

"...this weapon CAN be fired at a different target to any other weapon, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

() Well - different target? Normal rules for shooting? No mention of the order of operations - no mention of how it activates - and no mention of restricted targets. Only to follow the normal rules for shooting. Well...what is that? Need I quote the 7 step process that it is clearly defined as the normal shooting rules? That start with selecting one target, not two? The normal rules for shooting make no mention of multiple target selection in the same shooting phase because it doesn't allow for it. There is no reason not to assume these attacks aren't meant to be taken as completely seperate events - if a new target arises during the LR's basic shooting - POTMS should be able to choose it as a target as it is not restricted as it is in the split fire ruling. If there were a jury to decide the virdict in this case. There is no question they would rule in my interpretations favor.

There is every reason to not assume that the shots are resolved as completely separate sequences... Because the rules don't tell you to do so.

All that POTMS does is allow you to select two targets instead of one.

The rest of the shooting sequence remains unaltered.

 Xenomancers wrote:
POTMS does none of this.

"...this weapon CAN be fired at a different target to any other weapon, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

() Well - different target? Normal rules for shooting? No mention of the order of operations - no mention of how it activates - and no mention of restricted targets. Only to follow the normal rules for shooting. Well...what is that? Need I quote the 7 step process that it is clearly defined as the normal shooting rules? That start with selecting one target, not two? The normal rules for shooting make no mention of multiple target selection in the same shooting phase because it doesn't allow for it. There is no reason not to assume these attacks aren't meant to be taken as completely seperate events - if a new target arises during the LR's basic shooting - POTMS should be able to choose it as a target as it is not restricted as it is in the split fire ruling. If there were a jury to decide the virdict in this case. There is no question they would rule in my interpretations favor.

Sure, if you look at half of the rule. Crafting your argument like that is dishonest debate.
I quoted it earlier - you even quoted me saying it.

"In a turn in which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor uses smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted."

Normally permitted? There's a limit? When does that limit come into play? Oh. The normal 7 step process for a unit's shooting. The fact that Split Fire has additional restrictions is meaningless - it needs them because it explicitly is resolved separately from the rest of the fire.
You're making assumptions unsupported by actual rules, and only quoting part of the involved rule at that. Great debate style - honestly.

You can.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
You can.

No, you can't.

It's awesome when you reply without reading the thread or supporting your argument.

Holy god-awful cherry-picked logic, Batman. Okay, let's all stop paraphrasing rules, and go over the actual rules for shooting, the entire process, and I'll explain to you exactly you can't declare a new target after shooting the rest of your guns with PotMS.

The Shooting Sequence

1) Nominate Unit to Shoot: Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do do this turn.

2) Choose a target: The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see

3) Select a Weapon: Select a weapon the firing unit is equipped with. All models equipped with a weapon with the same name can now shoot that weapon at a target. Every model that wishes to shoot must be within range of at least one visible model in the target unit. Models that cannot see the target, or are not in range, cannot shoot.

4) Roll to Hit: Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A models Ballistic Skill determines what it must roll in order to hit the target.

5 Roll to Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target. The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.

6) Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties: Any Wounds caused by the firing unit must now be allocated, one at a time, to the closest model in the target unit. A model with a Wound allocated to it can take a saving throw (if it has one) to avoid being wounded. If a model is reduced to 0 Wounds, it is removed as a casualty. Wounds are then allocated to the next closest model. Continue to allocate Wounds and take saving throws until all Wounds have been resolved.

7) Select Another Weapon: After resolving all shots from the currently selected weapon, if the firing unit is equipped with differently named weapons that have yet to fire, select another weapon and repeat steps 3 to 6

Right there, that's why you can't choose a new target. because as you move from one weapon to the next, the shooting process moves back to step 3, select a weapon. Before you choose the very first weapon to resolve shooting attacks from, Step 2 (choose a target) has already happened, and the process never moves back to that point. So if you've got, say, 3 weapons in a unit, the order would go: Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, Step 4, Step 5, Step 6, Step 7, Step 3, Step 4, Step 5, Step 6, Step 7, Step 3, Step 4, Step 5, Step 6, Step 7. Now, keep in mind this little snippet from page 156: "When a character or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends on of the main game rules, it is represented by a special rule". If PotMS allowed you to bypass the normal shooting sequence, and return to the targeting step after you had selected your first weapon to fire, the rule would state that. It does not. In fact, it specifically states that, with the exception of allowing you to choose a second target for one of your weapons, the attack follows all the standard rules for shooting. In the standard rules for shooting, your target is selected before ANY gun is fired.

AnFéasógMór wrote:
Holy god-awful cherry-picked logic, Batman. Okay, let's all stop paraphrasing rules, and go over the actual rules for shooting, the entire process, and I'll explain to you exactly you can't declare a new target after shooting the rest of your guns with PotMS.

The Shooting Sequence

1) Nominate Unit to Shoot: Choose one of your units that is able to shoot but has yet to do do this turn.

2) Choose a target: The unit can shoot at an enemy unit that it can see

3) Select a Weapon: Select a weapon the firing unit is equipped with. All models equipped with a weapon with the same name can now shoot that weapon at a target. Every model that wishes to shoot must be within range of at least one visible model in the target unit. Models that cannot see the target, or are not in range, cannot shoot.

4) Roll to Hit: Roll a D6 for each shot fired. A models Ballistic Skill determines what it must roll in order to hit the target.

5 Roll to Wound. For each shot that hit, roll again to see if it wounds the target. The result needed is determined by comparing the Strength of the firing weapon with the majority Toughness of the target unit.

6) Allocate Wounds & Remove Casualties: Any Wounds caused by the firing unit must now be allocated, one at a time, to the closest model in the target unit. A model with a Wound allocated to it can take a saving throw (if it has one) to avoid being wounded. If a model is reduced to 0 Wounds, it is removed as a casualty. Wounds are then allocated to the next closest model. Continue to allocate Wounds and take saving throws until all Wounds have been resolved.

7) Select Another Weapon: After resolving all shots from the currently selected weapon, if the firing unit is equipped with differently named weapons that have yet to fire, select another weapon and repeat steps 3 to 6

Right there, that's why you can't choose a new target. because as you move from one weapon to the next, the shooting process moves back to step 3, select a weapon. Before you choose the very first weapon to resolve shooting attacks from, Step 2 (choose a target) has already happened, and the process never moves back to that point. So if you've got, say, 3 weapons in a unit, the order would go: Step 1, Step 2, Step 3, Step 4, Step 5, Step 6, Step 7, Step 3, Step 4, Step 5, Step 6, Step 7, Step 3, Step 4, Step 5, Step 6, Step 7. Now, keep in mind this little snippet from page 156: "When a character or weapon has an ability that breaks or bends on of the main game rules, it is represented by a special rule". If PotMS allowed you to bypass the normal shooting sequence, and return to the targeting step after you had selected your first weapon to fire, the rule would state that. It does not. In fact, it specifically states that, with the exception of allowing you to choose a second target for one of your weapons, the attack follows all the standard rules for shooting. In the standard rules for shooting, your target is selected before ANY gun is fired.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner people.
Now I won't hold it against you for asking a question without a rulebook in front of you ready to go. It happens. I'd say a lot of us have likely done it at one point or another to get clarification for an idea or whatnot we might get in the middle of the day. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF THE EMPRAH, DON'T ARGUE WITH THE PEOPLE PROVIDING YOU WITH QUOTES. Jesus christ. Internet etiquette people, c'mon

rigeld2 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
POTMS does none of this.

"...this weapon CAN be fired at a different target to any other weapon, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

() Well - different target? Normal rules for shooting? No mention of the order of operations - no mention of how it activates - and no mention of restricted targets. Only to follow the normal rules for shooting. Well...what is that? Need I quote the 7 step process that it is clearly defined as the normal shooting rules? That start with selecting one target, not two? The normal rules for shooting make no mention of multiple target selection in the same shooting phase because it doesn't allow for it. There is no reason not to assume these attacks aren't meant to be taken as completely seperate events - if a new target arises during the LR's basic shooting - POTMS should be able to choose it as a target as it is not restricted as it is in the split fire ruling. If there were a jury to decide the virdict in this case. There is no question they would rule in my interpretations favor.

Sure, if you look at half of the rule. Crafting your argument like that is dishonest debate.
I quoted it earlier - you even quoted me saying it.

"In a turn in which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor uses smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted."

Normally permitted? There's a limit? When does that limit come into play? Oh. The normal 7 step process for a unit's shooting. The fact that Split Fire has additional restrictions is meaningless - it needs them because it explicitly is resolved separately from the rest of the fire.
You're making assumptions unsupported by actual rules, and only quoting part of the involved rule at that. Great debate style - honestly.

Just fyi.

When you start a quote with ellipsis (...) - it indicates that there is a part of the quotation being omitted to that point (nothing dishonest about it.)