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I know there has been a thread in regards of blasts and the ability to reroll it. This one is just a quick question: Can you reroll the scatter if you have BS6+?

No, the improved chance to hit from BS6+ is already represented by the reduced scatter distance.

EDIT: per the discussion below, I concede that this is the wrong interpretation.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
No, the improved chance to hit from BS6+ is already represented by the reduced scatter distance.

That's not what the actual rules say of course. But that discussion leads to the same locked thread because people haven't accepted facts.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
No, the improved chance to hit from BS6+ is already represented by the reduced scatter distance.

The actual written rules call bs6+ a Reroll, so you are still incorrect.

Please mark these as simply how you play it, not the rules as written , so there is no confusion.

Soooo what else can reroll scatter beside twinlinked?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Please mark these as simply how you play it, not the rules as written , so there is no confusion.

I would mark my post that way... if I thought there were any ambiguity at all. The rules for BS6+ grants you re-roll if you roll a 1 on your to-hit. Scatter dice can't roll a result of a 1, so it never triggers the re-roll condition.

Yes, I understand the argument that the rule only requires that one of the dice be a 1 (in which case you would have better than a 1 in 6 chance to get a re-roll from rolling a 1 on one of the scatter dice). I think the basic concepts section of the rulebook is pretty clear about that being a incorrect interpretation, as scatter dice have to be read as a whole (and so inherently cannot roll a result of 1 any more than a regular dice roll could roll a result of Hit). Rules that interact with scatter dice are worded in such a way that they interact properly with the dice (e.g., how the Barrage rules interact when you roll a Hit on the scatter dice, or how some range reduction works). The kicker for me is: there already are rules for how high BS interacts with scatter dice: they reduce the distance of the scatter. Anything beyond that requires a strained interpretations of core game mechanics.

Tautastic wrote:
Soooo what else can reroll scatter beside twinlinked?

Some special rules can. And psychic powers. It will depend on what army you play.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Please mark these as simply how you play it, not the rules as written , so there is no confusion.

I would mark my post that way... if I thought there were any ambiguity at all. The rules for BS6+ grants you re-roll if you roll a 1 on your to-hit. Scatter dice can't roll a result of a 1, so it never triggers the re-roll condition.

Based on this statement, only Twin-Linked can re-roll scatter as literally every other ability has a "condition" of "failed roll To-Hit". Since you cannot fail to roll To-Hit with a Blast (because they never roll To-Hit) you can never meet that condition either.
Have fun with that argument.

Yes, I understand the argument that the rule only requires that one of the dice be a 1 (in which case you would have better than a 1 in 6 chance to get a re-roll from rolling a 1 on one of the scatter dice). I think the basic concepts section of the rulebook is pretty clear about that being a incorrect interpretation, as scatter dice have to be read as a whole (and so inherently cannot roll a result of 1 any more than a regular dice roll could roll a result of Hit). Rules that interact with scatter dice are worded in such a way that they interact properly with the dice (e.g., how the Barrage rules interact when you roll a Hit on the scatter dice, or how some range reduction works).

Yes, that argument is incorrect. No on is saying that's the right way to play it.

The kicker for me is: there already are rules for how high BS interacts with scatter dice: they reduce the distance of the scatter. Anything beyond that requires a strained interpretations of core game mechanics.

Really? So you've completely missed the multiple threads that have addressed this before? Because the single argument you brought up isn't ever used.

Some special rules can. And psychic powers. It will depend on what army you play.

Not according to your own argument. Please be consistent.

Taking bets on how far this thread goes before this repetitive argument gets locked.

Daniel - the rules define bs6+ as a Reroll. End of. So yes, they Reroll. Done to death and proven every time, beyond reasoned debate.

I see we're taking the fisking approach in this thread.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Please mark these as simply how you play it, not the rules as written , so there is no confusion.

I would mark my post that way... if I thought there were any ambiguity at all. The rules for BS6+ grants you re-roll if you roll a 1 on your to-hit. Scatter dice can't roll a result of a 1, so it never triggers the re-roll condition.

Based on this statement, only Twin-Linked can re-roll scatter as literally every other ability has a "condition" of "failed roll To-Hit". Since you cannot fail to roll To-Hit with a Blast (because they never roll To-Hit) you can never meet that condition either.
Have fun with that argument.

I think it's a fun argument
Yes, there are ambiguities with things like how things like Prescience interacts with Blasts. But the OP asked about BS6+, where there is no such ambiguity.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

Yes, I understand the argument that the rule only requires that one of the dice be a 1 (in which case you would have better than a 1 in 6 chance to get a re-roll from rolling a 1 on one of the scatter dice). I think the basic concepts section of the rulebook is pretty clear about that being a incorrect interpretation, as scatter dice have to be read as a whole (and so inherently cannot roll a result of 1 any more than a regular dice roll could roll a result of Hit). Rules that interact with scatter dice are worded in such a way that they interact properly with the dice (e.g., how the Barrage rules interact when you roll a Hit on the scatter dice, or how some range reduction works).

Yes, that argument is incorrect. No on is saying that's the right way to play it.

It does, though. You Make Da Call threads go into maddening detail, and someone invariably brings that up. I will conceed that it's not a dominant argument.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

The kicker for me is: there already are rules for how high BS interacts with scatter dice: they reduce the distance of the scatter. Anything beyond that requires a strained interpretations of core game mechanics.

Really? So you've completely missed the multiple threads that have addressed this before? Because the single argument you brought up isn't ever used.

*shrug*
Not sure how to respond to this. I do spend rather a lot of time in this subforum, so no I haven't missed those threads.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

Some special rules can. And psychic powers. It will depend on what army you play.

Not according to your own argument. Please be consistent.

I do see that Guide doesn't give Twin-linked, but rather just grants a re-roll to hit (which then runs into the ambiguities), so I guess Psychic Powers aren't unambiguously going to work. A lot of people will allow it (depends on your local player base).

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Daniel - the rules define bs6+ as a Reroll. End of. So yes, they Reroll. Done to death and proven every time, beyond reasoned debate.

My point was that you never meet the conditions necessary to gain the re-roll.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Daniel - the rules define bs6+ as a Reroll. End of. So yes, they Reroll. Done to death and proven every time, beyond reasoned debate.

But BS 6+ is a special kind of re-roll, isn't it? If you have BS 6, don't you reroll, but instead you hit on a 6 instead of a 2+?

Well seems like to me a TO will have to decide it then. Anyone knows how they rule it in the ITC or NOVA tournaments?

 DanielBeaver wrote:
I see we're taking the fisking approach in this thread.

Yes, it's helpful to show - point by point - why your conclusions and statements are incorrect rather than a big blog of text with vague references to "above".

I think it's a fun argument
Yes, there are ambiguities with things like how things like Prescience interacts with Blasts. But the OP asked about BS6+, where there is no such ambiguity.

Even though the BRB specifically calls BS6 a re-roll? Are you sure you want to keep that stance? And Blasts literally never set a condition on the re-roll?

daniel wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Daniel - the rules define bs6+ as a Reroll. End of. So yes, they Reroll. Done to death and proven every time, beyond reasoned debate.

My point was that you never meet the conditions necessary to gain the re-roll.

Yet gets hot and blast states you do have the Reroll. Unambiguously. Meaning you have (the ability) and that us all the actual rule cares about. Not one part of the actual rule cares whether you rolled a 1, a 4, or a blue in your to-hit. Just that you have the ability. And with bs6+ the actual rules state you have an actual ability to Reroll, so you are, in actual fact, in error. Your contention is proven incorrect, pleSe Mark your posts appropriately.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

daniel wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Daniel - the rules define bs6+ as a Reroll. End of. So yes, they Reroll. Done to death and proven every time, beyond reasoned debate.

My point was that you never meet the conditions necessary to gain the re-roll.

Yet gets hot and blast states you do have the Reroll. Unambiguously. Meaning you have (the ability) and that us all the actual rule cares about. Not one part of the actual rule cares whether you rolled a 1, a 4, or a blue in your to-hit. Just that you have the ability. And with bs6+ the actual rules state you have an actual ability to Reroll, so you are, in actual fact, in error. Your contention is proven incorrect, pleSe Mark your posts appropriately.

Get's Hot has special rules for Blasts.

Could you give me an in-game example of gaining a re-roll for your blasts merely from having BS6? I genuinely don't understand how we're coming to different conclusions abut this (or if we're actually talking about different things).

EDIT: Oh, is the idea that the Blast rule's "Blast Weapons and Re-rolls" allows you to invoke the "Ballistic Skill of 6 or Better" re-roll, regardless of whether you rolled a 1 or not? Because I totally don't agree with that interpretation.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
EDIT: Oh, is the idea that the Blast rule's "Blast Weapons and Re-rolls" allows you to invoke the "Ballistic Skill of 6 or Better" re-roll, regardless of whether you rolled a 1 or not? Because I totally don't agree with that interpretation.

Even though Blast Weapons and Re-rolls don't set a condition on "how good" the re-roll is?

Why is, say, Prescience okay but BS6+ isn't? Please be consistent.

Okay, you've convinced me.

The difference is, Prescience, preferred enemy etc grant a reroll with a condition (failed to hit, to hit rolls of 1). BS 6+ does not have a reroll until they roll a 1 To Hit. Similar to a model with preferred enemy does not have a reroll until they target the specified enemy.

 Happyjew wrote:
The difference is, Prescience, preferred enemy etc grant a reroll with a condition (failed to hit, to hit rolls of 1). BS 6+ does not have a reroll until they roll a 1 To Hit. Similar to a model with preferred enemy does not have a reroll until they target the specified enemy.

I disagree with that assertion without a rules quote.

Page 33, small rulebook. Ballistic Skill of 6 or Better.

If a model has BS 6 or higher, it gains a re-roll whenever it rolls a 1 To Hit.

To me, this reads you do not have a reroll unless you roll a 1.

 Happyjew wrote:
Page 33, small rulebook. Ballistic Skill of 6 or Better.

If a model has BS 6 or higher, it gains a re-roll whenever it rolls a 1 To Hit.

To me, this reads you do not have a reroll unless you roll a 1.

I'd have to reference the locked thread for why, but that was discussed as unsupported by the rest of the rules in the book.
Sorry for being vague - I'll have to double check.

I understand the counter-argument. Gets hot, specifically refers to BS6+ as a reroll. However, the argument could be made that this applies only to Gets Hot (sort of like how FNP and Shadowfield applies only to that situation).

 Happyjew wrote:
I understand the counter-argument. Gets hot, specifically refers to BS6+ as a reroll. However, the argument could be made that this applies only to Gets Hot (sort of like how FNP and Shadowfield applies only to that situation).

The FNP/Shadowfield FAQ doesn't apply because the question and answer were very specific.
Therefore any argument that tries to liken it to Bs6 not being a reroll is incorrect because nothing specifies that BS6 only has a reroll for Gets Hot - at best it's implied. It's certainly not written.