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Is there difference between vallejo acrylic paint being used as a primer and vallejo primer being used for priming? Other than the name, would I be safe using the acrilyc paint that I want to prime or is it better to use the primer paint?

I use almost exclusively Vallejo paints. Primers have a "tooth" to them that grips the model and base coats very well. Also, the Vallejo Black Primer is fantastic at keeping details.

Regular paints do not usually have the same "tooth" a primer will and could chip off far easier.

Best bet is to stick with actual primer instead of, say, black paint.

do you have models that are primed with regular vallejo paint? Are any of your models chipping?

Simple answers: Yes. No. Yes.

Plain old acrylic paints - even robust 'for gaming' formulas (GW, VGC) - have trouble bonding to bare styrene. While you don't necessarily need an industrial strength, self-etching primer, something with a stronger bond is highly recommended. There's also the issue of application - trying to paint acrylics onto bare plastic usually necessitates thick applications, which exhibit brush strokes and clog details. Properly thinned paint will simply run and bead up on the smooth surface.

On what "primer" to use: For plastics, this could be a simple aerosol enamel - plain, flat spray paint in your chosen color. For metal, you'll want an actual primer of some sort. The Vallejo primers are a bit different than the usual hardware store fare, having a polyurethane base.

The PU primer doesn't grip the substrate as strongly as other primers, instead forming a resilient (once cured) skin over the model. This makes it handy, as it works on just about any material (styrene, white metal, resin, soft vinyl) equally well (doesn't require any chemical bonding, water is the only solvent), while still responding to the milder stripping agents, if you muck things up or want to change schemes.

This has been asked many many times before, and basically....what oadie said.

(hmmm...that has been said before too).

Primers work because they are not chemically the same as paint.

There are literally hundreds of posts on primers and paints, and different kinds of primers on dakka. Use a search to take advantage of the collective wisdom.

My personal favorite primers are;
- vallejo surface primer (airbrush or brush on).
- reaper brush on primer
- spray can hardwarestore primer
- armory brand spray primer (more expensive but gives thinner coats then hardware store primer)
- army painter colored primers.

best of luck!

frboals wrote:do you have models that are primed with regular vallejo paint? Are any of your models chipping?

For a long time now I've used VMA black as a brush-on Primer, and no, none of my minis painted in such a way are experiencing chipping or paint rubbing off. They are only ever on the shelf, in foam, in a static box or on the table, but the paintwork stands up to average use just fine, and the VMA and GW paints I use over the top work just fine.

 Paradigm wrote:

frboals wrote:do you have models that are primed with regular vallejo paint? Are any of your models chipping?

For a long time now I've used VMA black as a brush-on Primer, and no, none of my minis painted in such a way are experiencing chipping or paint rubbing off. They are only ever on the shelf, in foam, in a static box or on the table, but the paintwork stands up to average use just fine, and the VMA and GW paints I use over the top work just fine.

Are you painting just plastic/resin? While black acrylic paint sort if works on plastic as a substitute, it works terribly on metal.

Another thing I wonder is that if you are painting straight to plastic, why bother with black? You might as well make your first layer close in color to what you want to paint, and save yourself from having to cover black.

The biggest issue with unprimed surfaces for durability, I find is edges and corners -- they are just less able to handle fingers. Also, if you use tinted primers, you actually have fewer layers of paint on your model by the time you're done basecoating anyhow.

 Talys wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

frboals wrote:do you have models that are primed with regular vallejo paint? Are any of your models chipping?

For a long time now I've used VMA black as a brush-on Primer, and no, none of my minis painted in such a way are experiencing chipping or paint rubbing off. They are only ever on the shelf, in foam, in a static box or on the table, but the paintwork stands up to average use just fine, and the VMA and GW paints I use over the top work just fine.

Are you painting just plastic/resin? While black acrylic paint sort if works on plastic as a substitute, it works terribly on metal.

Another thing I wonder is that if you are painting straight to plastic, why bother with black? You might as well make your first layer close in color to what you want to paint, and save yourself from having to cover black.

The biggest issue with unprimed surfaces for durability, I find is edges and corners -- they are just less able to handle fingers. Also, if you use tinted primers, you actually have fewer layers of paint on your model by the time you're done basecoating anyhow.

Done it for plastic, metal and resin, all are fine. The reason I paint black is that a) it's easier to hide any bits I miss if they are black rather than coloured and b) painting over black paint still covers better than colour straight on to plastic, and gives a more consistent finish.

So I bought some vallejo primer and it is definitely all I have been looking for and some. thanks for all the tips

Vallejo primers through airbrush are great. Lay down smooth, cost effective primers in white/grey/black or coloured (haven't tried coloured). Make sure you let them cure for 24 hours though. Some people have problems with the primer not binding strong enough before then. Can't beat those 200ml bottles, last for ages.

I bought a 60ml bottle of white Vallejo primer the other day. It was very watery and clogged small details. I'm Wondering if I got a bad bottle or what?

 Phobos wrote:
I bought a 60ml bottle of white Vallejo primer the other day. It was very watery and clogged small details. I'm Wondering if I got a bad bottle or what?

You probably put it on too thick. White is harder to get on nicely than black, which you can get to cover in a single, thin coat. For white, you need to spray a thinner coat, let it dry (won't take long), then spray another coat.

Don't pull the trigger back as far (or hold the model further away)

 Phobos wrote:
I bought a 60ml bottle of white Vallejo primer the other day. It was very watery and clogged small details. I'm Wondering if I got a bad bottle or what?

Did you airbrush it or hairy brush it? I'm guessing hairy brush?

It is quite thin and brushing it with a hairy brush you have to be careful to not overload your brush and apply too much. Just try and apply less and you should be right. It's definitely harder to hairy brush paint than regular paint because the polyurethane resin will start to react and it'll go gummy as you paint with it.

Make sure you shake the hell out of it as well, it separates in the bottle.

Airbrushing it I've never really found it to be too thin, I usually have to add a bit of thinner to it to get it to spray decently. It clogs all the bloody time as well. I often find after a few models I have to clean out my brush because it's clogged the nozzle (I did once get through a whole regiment without it clogging, but it seems I was lucky because usually I'm happy if I get through 3 without it clogging).

I will be honest... I'm not sure why the Vallejo primer gets so much praise. I use it and I like it because it's cheap and I can just spray things indoors at my painting booth, but other than that I much prefer spray cans for priming, it's just my spray booth struggles to deal with the epic cloud of paint produced by a spray can so I have to do it outside and spray cans average out to be more expensive (mainly because you waste a lot more paint).

I squirted some from the bottle onto a pallet and painted it on with a regular sable #4 brush. I do not have an airbursh (yet)

It was very watery. and did not go on smooth at all.

As has been mentioned a few times, the difference between primer and paint is chemical.

Primers are a bonding surface that both has better properties to adhere to a number of different surfaces based on the primer and create a perfect surface for the paint to adhere to. If you feel a primed model it will be all rough. That is the "teeth" or "hooks" that make it such a great bonding agent.

Paints create durable top coats, the higher the gloss (more shiny it is) the more durable the finish (gloss comes from the top coat being completely smooth). Now model paints are not especially durable since they are applied so thin so you want a good clear top coat to protect it anyway. BUT, the important thing to take away from this is that there is no "paint primer". They have entirely different jobs and being good at one is counter productive to the job of the other. If you want your paints to have the best possible surface to adhere to to prevent them from chipping off then I suggest you use a primer first every time.

 Phobos wrote:
I squirted some from the bottle onto a pallet and painted it on with a regular sable #4 brush. I do not have an airbursh (yet)

It was very watery. and did not go on smooth at all.

It is quite thin, you just have to make sure the brush isn't too heavily loaded or it'll build up in crevices. Don't expect it to go on smooth in 1 coat, if you want a smooth coat with a hairy brush it'll take 2-3 thin coats, but normally if I'm hairy brush painting it I'll just do 1 rough coat and then do my basecoat on top of it.

As I mentioned, it's harder to hairy brush paint than regular paints because it starts off very thin and then as you're painting it, it'll start going gummy as the polyurethane starts curing. Certainly not impossible to hairy brush paint, just not as easy as regular paint.

One of the Vallejo PU primer's lovely qualities is that it's self-leveling. This means smoother coats when spraying and no visible strokes when applying by brush. Unfortunately, it also means that if slopped on, it will pool in details, like a wash. Use less primer and really spread it around - you'll end up with a smooth finish on a thin, even coat that doesn't clog details.