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OK. I am working on a daemon / chaos space marines list in the other thread. It has devolved into a rules dispute, so I am putting it here:

I want to put a soul grinder and obliterators on a skyshield. All are tzeentch models.

Additionally, I will have a herald fishing for cursed earth nearby.

As I read the rules:
Skyshield gives models on it a 4++ from shooting attacks
MoT gives +1 to invuls, to a max of 3++
DoT allows rerolling ones
Cursed Earth gives any model with daemon special rule +1 to its invul and specifically states it is cumulative with other benefits.

So, if the soul grinder and oblits are on a skyshield, the soul grinder should have a 4++ rerolling ones. The oblits should have a 3++
If cursed earth goes off nearby, the soul grinder is 3++ rerolling ones and oblits stay at 3++.

Comments?

That is all correct. Those are all modifyers to invul saves and the Skyshield gives invul saves.

I had a similar thread on weather cultists with a mark of tzeench on a skysheild get the 3++.

What this comes down to is order of operations. I look at camo cloaks as a good example as standing in the price of terrain gives them a base cover save which is then further modified by their wargear and could be further modified by say a techmarines "bolster ruin" ability.

In my opinion that's how's the skysheild works, it is a piece of terrain that bestows a benefit, in this case a 4++ invuln from shooting attacks, which can then be modified. If those cultists, or to stick with the ops unit a soul grinder, has a mark then you take the best save you've got and then apply modifiers. So the soul grinder has his base 5++, which applies to everything, and a 4++ which applies to shooting. Then modify with mark of tzeench for a 4++ against cc, and a 3++ against shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you get cursed earth then you do indeed have the fabeled 2++ rerollable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Against shooting attacks only though

MoT has a limitation on it. It doesn't matter what order they are applied once the 3++ is reached adding anything else to it means that MoT is no longer applied.

Epartalis wrote:

If you get cursed earth then you do indeed have the fabeled 2++ rerollable.

How so?

My math has the soul grinder getting a 4++ from the skyshield, a +1 from cursed earth (to a 3++) with the ability to reroll 1's. So, anything but a 2 is good.
Oblits can get a 4++ modified to a max of 3++. While cursed earth would take them to a 2++, the limitation on the mark of tzeentch would come in dropping it back down to a 3++.

The Soul Grinder doesn't get MoT, but is a Daemon of Tzeentch for the re-roll benefit instead of an improved save. But, because ofthe Daemon special rule, it should receive the bonus +1 for Cursed Earth which would be applied to it's inherit 5++ or the Skyshield 4++.

 Aurelian wrote:
But, while MoT doesn't apply to the Soul Grinder, it could be possible to reach a 2++ by using the Sanctic power in addition to Cursed Earth.

...you mean Sanctuary, the power that targets a Psyker and his unit? How does your Grinder get to be a Psyker, but mine doesn't???

Just toss the Grimoire at the Grinder if you're that desperate to get a 2++

you can also manage it using the +1 inv save warp storm result, or the 1st war of armageddon legacy if its a daemon of khorne.