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trying to decide between running an ork or guard gunline.
it seems like orks hit less but hit harder and can survive if the enemy actually make it in to combat with you.
the guard have so many vehicles and I like the idea of the wyvern. i'm putting a lot of merit on the wyvern though, is it as good as I think it is?

you can tarpit with guard blobs, what about orks?

any help?

Depends on what you mean "better".
Orks can make quite a decent Gunline, if a bit more random than a 'Guard one. Heavy support slots will be extreamly competitive, as you'll want Mek Gunz, Lootas, Gitz, Wagons...

If Forge World is an option in your area you open up a lot of options. Squadrons of Big Trakks with Superkannons (the Ork equivalent to a Basilisk Squadron ) give out a huge amount of firepower.
Warboss Bluetoof is worth looking at, as you can take a unit of Lootas as a Troop choice (it's like having 2 extra HS slots ).

No army does gun lines like the Imperial Guard, if that is what you want. The range and quantity of their artillery and heavy weapons blow Orks away in that regard.

 997Turbo wrote:
No army does gun lines like the Imperial Guard, if that is what you want. The range and quantity of their artillery and heavy weapons blow Orks away in that regard.

I'd agree that 'Guard are the Kings of Barrage.

But direct fire weapons, Orks can give them a run for their money

 997Turbo wrote:
No army does gun lines like the Imperial Guard, if that is what you want. The range and quantity of their artillery and heavy weapons blow Orks away in that regard.

My Tau would argue against that :p

On topic though Tau then Guard are reputably the top two gun line armies.

before you label me insane, lets look at the Ork Gunline units.

HQ
Big Mek - Shokk Attack is obvious, or KFF for protection.

ELITE
Tankbustas - what's not to love?
Nobz - mainly for the Battlewagon in this case.

TROOPS
Shoota Boyz - tougher than a guardsmen and more shooty!

HEAVY SUPPORT
Mek Gunz - huge choice here. Lobbas for barrage, KMK for Killy Death, Smashas for Tanks, Kannons for cheap....
Lootas - loads of Dakka (as mentioned before, works well with Warboss Blutoof)
Gitz - also loads of Dakka (don't make the mistake of comparing them to Lootas, compare them to Shoota Boyz)
Wagons - AV14 with lots of weapon options.
Lifta Wagon - because awesome, that's why!
Big Trakks - Get a squadron with Super Kannons. Like Basilisk, they don't have Barrage BUT have higher strength, and are primary instead of Ordnance (better to fire their big shootas with).

FORTIFICATIONS
Ageis - obvious one
Promethium Relay - like the Aegis, but make Burna Boyz awesome Toast the enemy at long range. Extend the relay with Barricades to give your Lootas a safer wall to hide behind.

Its a very different Gunline to the guard one, but has potential. It needs more line of sight, but makes up with volume of fire.
And you know, 'Guard and Tau are boring

Part of what I'm looking for is shear volume of fire. Who can throw the most dice?
For those that mentioned it, I don't do forgeworld or allies.

from an ork players perspective...i would advise against an ork gun line.

primarily due to Ork range being so horrible.

If youre orks and youre going to stay stationary against youre enemy youre going to need a hard hitting unit to be able to keep your opponents attention. nob bikers or something.

depending on the mission. orks would have a tough time

Our bs2 makes our rate of fire ho-hum. And as Johnny says, range is a real killer for us, as most armies can park just outside of our max and plink us to death. Lootas are great but they die like swatted flies, so try to find some cover for them.

I gotta side with IG if you want infantry gun lines. Being on the receiving end of a LOT of first rank, second rank fire, and Bring It Down orders, their plinky little lasguns will tear things to pieces through sheer weight of fire. Of course, when you actually make it to them to assault them, IG fall apart way faster than orks. Orks are a very fun army, but I've seen people get frustrated due to bad rolls a lot more often than IG players. There's a large amount of random dice being thrown around for ork heavy weaponry, but when they work, they work amazingly well. IG artillery is way more consistent, though.

I do think Ork shooting is better than a lot of players realise, but I still think Guard are a better bet if all you want is a gunline.

It's not so much the ballistic skill - Orks compensate for it with volume of fire - but more the range IMO. Most proper shooty armies outrange Orks significantly. Ork shooting is there to soften the enemy up before you krump them with your choppas, and it's great for that!

The thing is shooty orkses can and do play effectively. But not in a static gunline. Orks are very strong at controling the board. What you might want is some sort of mobile gunline. You go middboard, grab objectives and sit there somewhere in ruins potecting your shootaboyz with painboyz. The thing is not much stuff - even mellee oriented - wants to get stuck in mellee with a blob of angry greenskins with a pk nob and a painboss. You can tell they're a gunline all you want but they're no strangers to punching stuff in the face.

You will still have solid backfield firebase - big gunz, lootas, some shooty vehicles (mainly forgeworld) ut will also have a hordey mixed shooty-mellee component - shootaboyz backed up by midrange support like tankbustas, bikers, koptas, bugies, grot tanks (fw) and flasgits.

Depends on how you're augmenting your gunline really. If you're using a Fortress, I do believe the guard is better simply because you can have BS4 manning the Icarus and you can hide artillery behind it.

If you're not focusing on fortifications though, Orks probably can do it better with Mek Guns, tougher troops with lots of dakka... even though I haven't faced a true Ork gunline yet.

4 x 5 kannons each with ammo runt
2 x 5 lobbas
4 x 5 warbuggies with rokkit launchers

1100 pts.

Leaves you with all troops, HQ, Elites and 2 FA slots left (think bikes with tl big shootas). All shooting more accurate than guard as either bs3 with 1 reroll or tl bs2.
Gives you 40 st8 ap3 shots and 10 lobba blasts.
If you ever go FW I'd suggest grot tanks with grotzookas in elites for a shooty list.

I am not gonna say orks don't do a decent gunline, cause they can. But won't be as reliable or accurate.

Guard are the gunline champs, they can put out too many blast templates to want to think about. And still have cheap troops to back it up.