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Just bought a new Ork codex after being absent from the game a while. Got a bit confused with the upgrades a Boyz mob can take.

First it states that the entire mob may exchange the Sluggas with Shootas. Then it says a ranged weapon can be replaced with a BS/Rokkit. Then finally, one other Boy may be upgraded to a Nob. This suggest that the options must be applied in that particular order. Does this mean that a Boss Nob in a shoota boyz mob must always have a Shoota? So, when upgrading this choppa to a PK, he has both a PK and a Shoota and not the possibility to keep his Slugga?

For the old codex, there was an FAQ entry to say that the Nob upgrade could be done first (before taking the Shootas), so that the Nob would still have his choppa to replace with a PK. This was needed under the old codex rules in order for him to be able to take a PK at all, so it made sense.

Now there is no such FAQ and it's not needed, because even with upgrading to Shootas they still have a choppa to exchange for a PK.

So how it this applied? Is the Boss Nob in a Shoota Boyz mob forced to take a Shoota (and pay the point) or can he still take the Slugga (for the extra Attack in CC).

A second question also relating to the order of applying the options:
In a Shoota Boyz mob, upgrading to the Big shoota/Rokkit is this done after the mob taking the Shoota or can it be done first? The difference is whether you would pay the 1 point for the Shoota upgrade for the guy taking the Big Shoota/Rokkit.

Thanks!

Basz002 wrote:
First it states that the entire mob may exchange the Sluggas with Shootas. Then it says a ranged weapon can be replaced with a BS/Rokkit. Then finally, one other Boy may be upgraded to a Nob. This suggest that the options must be applied in that particular order. Does this mean that a Boss Nob in a shoota boyz mob must always have a Shoota? So, when upgrading this choppa to a PK, he has both a PK and a Shoota and not the possibility to keep his Slugga?

There's a fair bit of split options on this.
But really, why would you want to keep the Slugga? You don't gain an extra Attack as the Klaw is a specialist weapon. Even in Slugga mobs, I'd upgrade the Nob to have a Klaw and shoota (free upgrade in that case).

Ah, yes, I missed that on not getting the extra attack. So there is no reason for not taking the Shoota (except that all my Nobs are modelled with a Slugga).

Then it comes down to a points question. Can I choose the order of the options and first upgrade the Nob's gun to a Shoota for free and then upgrade the rest of the mob to Shoota? Or is the order fixed and do I pay the 1 extra point for the Nob as well? Same question for the Big Shoota/Rokkit upgrade.

Comparing the old codex to the new codex again and looking at the old FAQ, it seems to me that we are free to choose the order in which we apply the options. The old FAQ clarified this for the old codex. Wording on the options in the new codex is similar, so I see no reason to say that the order is now all of a sudden fixed.

Army Builder forces you to spend the point

Army Builder also forces you to spend points you don't need to because its a bit broken. if you take a warboss and give him Mega Armor it still wants you to equip the PK for 25 points even though the mega armor upgrade gives him one. useless! and theres a few other examples im to lazy to remember and get into.

Yeah, the way army building is kinda weird. And the electronic programs might miss a few things. I know Battle Scribe works proper when it comes to the upgrading. (Ala you don't get charged 25pts extra for taking MA in Ghazkull's example)

It's odd because the rules don't really explain if there is an 'order of operations' when you army build. Like, when you take a squad of boys, my order goes:

-Purchase the base squad of 10
--Purchase extra Boyz if desired
--Purchase Shootas if applicable
--Purchase special weapons if applicable
--Purchase Nob
--Purchase Nob Upgrades

The reason I include the extra point for the Nob's Shoota (Despite losing it when he comes a Nob) is because the Shoota is acknowledged to have been purchased prior to the upgrade to Nob, so they allow him to regain the Shoota for free, which as others have pointed out, is a no brainer as the Slugga has no use as a CC weapon. You might as well just regrab the Shoota for the extra shot.

This helps me and explains why battlescribe kept giving me errors. Big thanks!

Buy 20 boyz
Upgrade 2 to Rokkits
Upgrade 1 to Nob
Purshase Nob Ugrades

Throw them in a Battlewagon... PROFIT!

Because the rules say nothing about the order, I would apply it as follows:

- Purchase the base squad of 10
-- Purchase extra Boyz if desired
-- Purchase special weapons if applicable
-- Purchase Nob
-- Purchase Nob Upgrades
-- Purchase Shootas if applicable

That way the Nob's Shoota upgrade is free and the Boyz with special weapons do not pay for the Shoota, only for their special weapon.

Basz002 wrote:
That way the Nob's Shoota upgrade is free and the Boyz with special weapons do not pay for the Shoota, only for their special weapon.

The cost for upgrading to shootas is not determined by how many models upgrade, but by how many models are in the mob. You would pay the same price regardless of order.

Oh, the good old question about boyz upgrades. The thing is it's not clear - the way it's written it can go both ways, so better discuss with your opponent if he doesn't mind you not paying 1-3 pts for upgrades you don't get.

You're given exactly one indication as to who the upgrade applies to to determine the price. That is the 'entire mob' and not 'models upgraded'. There is zero rules support to say that you only count models being upgraded to a shoota when determining the price.

 Ghaz wrote:
There is zero rules support to say that you only count models being upgraded to a shoota when determining the price.

Really? It is just the option description that says "The entire mob may replace...". Then on the point costs it says "1 pt/model". I can just as easily read "1 pt/model making the replacement", as I can "1 pt/model in the unit". The "x pt/model" wording is used for many other units and for those it always clearly applies only to the model taking the upgrade (see any other unit, basically). Doing the same for the Boyz unit makes sense to me, even if the description of the option states that all models that can upgrade must upgrade.

I still find the rule ambiguous, but only paying for the models that actually upgrade seems to me to make the most sense.

Basz002 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
There is zero rules support to say that you only count models being upgraded to a shoota when determining the price.

Really? It is just the option description that says "The entire mob may replace...". Then on the point costs it says "1 pt/model". I can just as easily read "1 pt/model making the replacement", as I can "1 pt/model in the unit". The "x pt/model" wording is used for many other units and for those it always clearly applies only to the model taking the upgrade (see any other unit, basically). Doing the same for the Boyz unit makes sense to me, even if the description of the option states that all models that can upgrade must upgrade.

I still find the rule ambiguous, but only paying for the models that actually upgrade seems to me to make the most sense.

The "1 pt/model" is not the part that gives the answer here. It's the "The entire mob may".

The "x pt/model" wording is used for many other units and for those it always lists "1 model may..." or "3 Nobz may...". This clearly defines 1, or "up to 3" purchases. In this case however, the number is: "The entire mob".
I do not really see it as ambiguous, "The entire mob" must buy the upgrade.

Sure, if the model bought a Rokkit-L first, he may no longer have the slugga to swap, but that is an issue of order of upgrades....
The pricing is quite simple.