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I am working on a fast Ork army and I am looking for a biker core to house my Warboss and Painboy. Hence I have a few questions regarding those.

As your main hammer, what would be superior, Nob bikers or Warbikers? The higher A and S of nobs on a model per model base sort of balances out the increased model-count of Warbikers. Nobs need to make less morale checks and the unit is smaller and thus easier to hide and maneuver. They have less shots, but most of the time they will be boosting and jinking anyway. And finally Nobs free up a valuable FA slot for me and take up an Elite slot that I never use anyway.
However, they do cost a lot. Still, you think there is a case for using Nob bikers as your HQ mob given the arguments above?

Second question would be if it is worth it running Biker mobs without characters. They have abysmal Ld and will run back very far. Still, can there be a case for MSU style harass bikes like 5 Warbikes or 3 Nob Bikers with PK?

Lastly, you think running the Mogrok's Bossboys Formation from Sanctus Reach on bikes (or partly on bikes) with a Painboy is worth it? Or too expensive?

Thanks for any replies and if anyone has more thoughts about running biker based Ork armies, lay it on me
Oh yeah, and lets leave Zhadsnark the Ripper out of the question for now. Lets talk purely non-FW here

Warbikers. The Warboss and Nob will have enough PK attacks to be your hammers.

And then what. Buying things from the Elite section? You know, the worst section in the whole book? I feel that you are handicapping yourself by filling an FA slot when there are viable alternatives.

Except a unit of Nob Bikers at 135 points (for three) do 2.16 wounds to a unit of 5 Space Marines in CC on the charge whereas the cost of 7 Warbikers (126) do 3.11 Wounds. Space Marines do 0.8 wounds in return so even the extra wound from Nobz doesn't help their cause.

Warbikers outshine Nob Bikers by being cheaper and doing more damage - as well as being able to take a larger unit.

I'd also argue that the Elites section has some very good units (ie MANz in Trukks or Tankbustas) that are better than regular Nobz. In Fast Attack, Warbikers are perhaps the best unit, so you're not really limiting yourself.

I couldn't see myself taking Nobz, biker variant or not, in competitive lists.

Yeah, but I wouldn't even go near a Trukk in a competitive list either. MANz and TB is BW are too big of a target while those units in Trukks will be taken out T1. FA and HS is all there is for competitiveness, if you ask me.
Besides, maneuvering 15 bikes + IC isn't very easy.
I am not trying to say Nobz outshine WB. I agree that WB are technically superior (it is the old GK TDA vs Paladins argument), but running Elite units in Trukks isn't going to get anywhere either.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
Yeah, but I wouldn't even go near a Trukk in a competitive list either. MANz and TB is BW are too big of a target while those units in Trukks will be taken out T1. FA and HS is all there is for competitiveness, if you ask me.
Besides, maneuvering 15 bikes + IC isn't very easy.
I am not trying to say Nobz outshine WB. I agree that WB are technically superior (it is the old GK TDA vs Paladins argument), but running Elite units in Trukks isn't going to get anywhere either.

I`m not too expierenced player but I can say that MANZ in Battlewagon are pretty surviable. My battlewagons usually broken on T2-3. 2 turns is enough to bring wagons to opponents deployment zone and set carnage. IWND and mek are also helpfull. Back to the topic, in current ork codex I would take WB instead of nobz. 3 packs of 8 WB+Boss+Painboy/Mek is a great core unit.

The problem isn't with MANz themselves, as much as that they need a few character to survive a stiff breeze these days. At that point, the unit becomes too expensive and the Wagon a huge target.

Which is why you zoom up the Trukks T1 as well as Turbo Boost the Bikes so your opponent either deals with the MANz or the blob of Warbikes. Trukks work best when you can overload your opponent with threats.

If you play Greentide but have a Trukk of MANz, then yeah, it's easy to take out the MANz out of the game. But have multiple Trukks, along with large units of Warbikers, Infiltrating Kommandos, Outflanking units and suddenly your opponent is going to struggle to deal with everything.

That is if you start the game. And if the opponent get first shooting phase? 1 Serpent = 1 Dead Trukk.

Deploy the Trukk out of line of sight. They can move 24" so it's easy to get into the fight with them.

And there is really no point comparing it against one of, if not the most, overpowered unit in the game - especially when said unit is spammed. If you're that concerned over facing a WS, take a Wagon instead.

I am taking wagons. I only play Wagons, Koptas and Bikes. That is why I am so concerned for my FA slots and the lack of Elite slots. Hence the argument about the Nobs Bikes.
The day I will be convinced that Trukks are worth it in any way except carrying Grots to be annoying is the day... I dunno... I admit defeat? That's humiliating enough I guess. For me, anyway.

And WS is the prime thing you should be prepared to counter anyway if you even look towards competitive play. No point denying it. You can either beat Serpents, or you don't show up.

I lobe me truck. Always field one and am happy with how it performs. But it's a matter of preference.

Elite slots have tankbustas which are amazing in mech lists and kommandoes that can be used effectively either. Be it min 5 infiltrating unit with 2 rokkits or a bunch of 15 + Snikrot to frighten off your opponent's backlines. MANz missiles are fine too. I do like 'ard boyz more due to them being able to run and taking up a troop sot for potentially obsec squad + truck. Obsec trucks are a steal, really.

About nobz vs bikes, once again, depends on what you need. If you want a bully deathstar to stick your bikerboss + painboss in there, go for bikers or koptas unless you're out of FA for some reason. Koptas are probably better than bikes in lower pt games. Scouting your indeps and H&R is a nice tactical trick.

If you want an independent mid-sized squad withou indeps, biker nobz and bikes are around equal. Hidden klaw and smaller unit size starts to matter there. Easier to hide, ain't afraid of challenges - can just deny and still PK them to death.

If you're going for a min sized squad with a pk nob - some sort of diversity unit that rolls from blos to blos and is able to kill something likea backfield scoring unit or a lone vehicle - both nobz and bikes can do it, really. Depends on slots. Bikes are cheaper in this case but less resilient and choppy. No hidden klaw once again. They'll do mellee better than koptas anywayz, eh.

If you want an insane killy unit to hunt down titans - nob bikers with lots of PK are here to help you out.

I suppose there is no argument, Warbikers do take the cake in the end. It is simply their cost-effectiveness when ferrying characters to the front.

And how the hell are 'ard boys in Trukks near as viable as bigger soft mobs in Wagons. You die to a stray shot and 10 boys are nowhere near as effective in doing anything really.
I would love to clear a few HS slots for Lootas and the sort, but I can not run a list without Battle Wagons. In a competitive meta they last somewhat longer than 3 Trukks combined.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
I suppose there is no argument, Warbikers do take the cake in the end. It is simply their cost-effectiveness when ferrying characters to the front.

And how the hell are 'ard boys in Trukks near as viable as bigger soft mobs in Wagons. You die to a stray shot and 10 boys are nowhere near as effective in doing anything really.
I would love to clear a few HS slots for Lootas and the sort, but I can not run a list without Battle Wagons. In a competitive meta they last somewhat longer than 3 Trukks combined.

I may be somewhat out of my depth here if you are a regular competitive gamer, but I would argue that it depends on the target.

I run a battlewagon-themed list. 20 boyz plus a nob with a power klaw will smash through most things once they get out. However, there are a lot of softer targets in the game that a smaller mob of trukk boyz can easily handle without needing to unload the big mobz (and thereby expose them to overwhelming firepower).

To give an example from my last game... I was playing against my mate's Thousand Sons. I had a wagon full of sluggas with the warboss and DLS, and a wagon full of nobz. Directly opposite them, my mate had a predator with four lascannons and a squad of Thousand Sons marines. I engaged the Thousand Sons with the nobz (and obviously clobbered them), but I had to unload my sluggas to deal with the predator, otherwise it would have seriously threatened my wagons. The sluggas took out the predator without breaking a sweat, but then they were exposed to fire from the rest of my mate's army. I was really kicking myself that I didn't take a smaller squad of trukk boyz that could have dealt with the pred much more efficiently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Going back to the OP's question, because I am curious about this... why exactly do people not go for nob bikers anymore? Is it just the point decrease/squad size increase for regular bikers?

The Battlewagon is an interesting beast. I have tried to use it as a fire support platfrom on top pf transport, but it did bugger all.
However, when using it as a pure transport, it still clocks in at 120pts with all the essential upgrades. I feel that that is a steep price for a transport for a unit of Shoota boys, which how I usually run it. If I am spending 120pts on a mobile bunker, better stick something of worth in there.
I might want to evaluate my list and maybe have the shoota boys simply foot slog while the BW transport something meaningful. This would actually solve a lot of list building problems I have.

 Trade_Prince wrote:
The Battlewagon is an interesting beast. I have tried to use it as a fire support platfrom on top pf transport, but it did bugger all.
However, when using it as a pure transport, it still clocks in at 120pts with all the essential upgrades. I feel that that is a steep price for a transport for a unit of Shoota boys, which how I usually run it. If I am spending 120pts on a mobile bunker, better stick something of worth in there.
I might want to evaluate my list and maybe have the shoota boys simply foot slog while the BW transport something meaningful. This would actually solve a lot of list building problems I have.

My mobile bunker (BW with Shoota boys) works quite well. But that's perhaps because I run so many more immediate treats around it that the opponent is not going to spend a lot of shooting to pop it.

How can you not have enough FA slots in the multi CAD 7th?

 Krusha wrote:
Going back to the OP's question, because I am curious about this... why exactly do people not go for nob bikers anymore? Is it just the point decrease/squad size increase for regular bikers?

The point change increased the value of the Warbikerz and the loss of Cybork as an Invul deceased the survivability of the Nob Bikers.