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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 00:24:03
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Gargantuan Gargant
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Unfortunately, KMK are only S8 so unless that Land Raider is on its last hull point it can only strip off a HP with a glance.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 00:27:27
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
Maine
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Grimskul wrote:
Unfortunately, KMK are only S8 so unless that Land Raider is on its last hull point it can only strip off a HP with a glance.
Oh gak, that's right XD Forgot 6 was just a glance XD
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 01:06:52
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Krazed Killa Kan
Homestead, FL
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ZZap gun is S 2d6 meaning you need better then average rolling to get high enough strength from it, THEN! when you do roll really good and your wicked happy you have to remember nothing is allowed past S10 so it caps out, and then you still need a 4-6 to glance/pen So yeah Zzap gun can Insta kill a Land raider.....with stupid good luck and killing one of your gunners.
KMK is a stupid response Its S8 so it can only glance a land raider.
Smasha gun: pretty much the same thing as a Zzap gun except it has 1/3rd less chance of getting high enough strength to glance/pen. It is S D6 + 4 and its AP1 which is great, Hits on a 4 which is good and if your wicked lucky and roll a 5 or a 6 for your strength then you can Pen on a 6 or 5 respectively. But your also talking about an Artillery piece and you have to choose your target before rolling strength so if you do roll bad you just wasted an entire turn of shooting. So for the strength aspect you have a 1/2 chance of rolling high enough to do anything. And a 1/2 of hitting teamed up with a 1/2 chance of glancing/penning. So in a 5 gun battery you roll high enough 1/2 the time so in a 6 turn game 3 turns are wasted, you hit 1/2 the time so 1.5 turns you will actually hit and be strong enough to do anything and you have a 1/2 chance of glancing/penning which means you have a .75 chance per 5 gun battery of inflicting a single glance/pen to the LR or equiv.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Furthermore you listed a bunch of different options for each factions and your responses are all the same....Yeah they have these ranged weapons that will always have enough strength and have better BS skill then an ork but they are unreliable because.........they are expensive or you can only field a few of them..Who cares you bring them for a purpose thats all I want for my ork list a weapon that CAN kill tanks from range where the only random is the chance of hitting. Even upgrading Lootas to S8 would be ok. Then at least I wouldn't have to Ram a trukk full of orks into each enemy heavy vehicle i come across
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/04 01:09:36
I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 01:26:36
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Gargantuan Gargant
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Ghazkuul wrote:ZZap gun is S 2d6 meaning you need better then average rolling to get high enough strength from it, THEN! when you do roll really good and your wicked happy you have to remember nothing is allowed past S10 so it caps out, and then you still need a 4-6 to glance/pen So yeah Zzap gun can Insta kill a Land raider.....with stupid good luck and killing one of your gunners.
KMK is a stupid response Its S8 so it can only glance a land raider.
Smasha gun: pretty much the same thing as a Zzap gun except it has 1/3rd less chance of getting high enough strength to glance/pen. It is S D6 + 4 and its AP1 which is great, Hits on a 4 which is good and if your wicked lucky and roll a 5 or a 6 for your strength then you can Pen on a 6 or 5 respectively. But your also talking about an Artillery piece and you have to choose your target before rolling strength so if you do roll bad you just wasted an entire turn of shooting. So for the strength aspect you have a 1/2 chance of rolling high enough to do anything. And a 1/2 of hitting teamed up with a 1/2 chance of glancing/penning. So in a 5 gun battery you roll high enough 1/2 the time so in a 6 turn game 3 turns are wasted, you hit 1/2 the time so 1.5 turns you will actually hit and be strong enough to do anything and you have a 1/2 chance of glancing/penning which means you have a .75 chance per 5 gun battery of inflicting a single glance/pen to the LR or equiv.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furthermore you listed a bunch of different options for each factions and your responses are all the same....Yeah they have these ranged weapons that will always have enough strength and have better BS skill then an ork but they are unreliable because.........they are expensive or you can only field a few of them..Who cares you bring them for a purpose thats all I want for my ork list a weapon that CAN kill tanks from range where the only random is the chance of hitting. Even upgrading Lootas to S8 would be ok. Then at least I wouldn't have to Ram a trukk full of orks into each enemy heavy vehicle i come across
I think you actually missed my main point of posting those up. You argued that every other army has a viable way of long range anti-tank, I showed you this wasn't true with clear cases like Tyranids and Chaos Daemons. I'm not saying the rest of them don't have their options, its just the disparity you think there to be between the Orks and the rest of them aren't as stark as you might want to believe.
Also, you previously claimed to love random weapons of the Orks and things going boom. Now all of a sudden you want reliability and consistency? Wut? Why are you playing Orks then? Part of the fun is seeing you roll double 6's on a SAG or even on a Zzap Gun and laugh as the grot crew fries itself in the process. Are you sure you actually want to play Orks? I would proxy or ask a friend to borrow their models and play with something like Tau or Space Marines to see whether or not you prefer their playstyle rather than Orks. Because a lot of your arguments just seem to be based on "I want what they have".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 01:30:00
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
Maine
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Ghazkuul wrote:ZZap gun is S 2d6 meaning you need better then average rolling to get high enough strength from it, THEN! when you do roll really good and your wicked happy you have to remember nothing is allowed past S10 so it caps out, and then you still need a 4-6 to glance/pen So yeah Zzap gun can Insta kill a Land raider.....with stupid good luck and killing one of your gunners.
KMK is a stupid response Its S8 so it can only glance a land raider.
Smasha gun: pretty much the same thing as a Zzap gun except it has 1/3rd less chance of getting high enough strength to glance/pen. It is S D6 + 4 and its AP1 which is great, Hits on a 4 which is good and if your wicked lucky and roll a 5 or a 6 for your strength then you can Pen on a 6 or 5 respectively. But your also talking about an Artillery piece and you have to choose your target before rolling strength so if you do roll bad you just wasted an entire turn of shooting. So for the strength aspect you have a 1/2 chance of rolling high enough to do anything. And a 1/2 of hitting teamed up with a 1/2 chance of glancing/penning. So in a 5 gun battery you roll high enough 1/2 the time so in a 6 turn game 3 turns are wasted, you hit 1/2 the time so 1.5 turns you will actually hit and be strong enough to do anything and you have a 1/2 chance of glancing/penning which means you have a .75 chance per 5 gun battery of inflicting a single glance/pen to the LR or equiv.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furthermore you listed a bunch of different options for each factions and your responses are all the same....Yeah they have these ranged weapons that will always have enough strength and have better BS skill then an ork but they are unreliable because.........they are expensive or you can only field a few of them..Who cares you bring them for a purpose thats all I want for my ork list a weapon that CAN kill tanks from range where the only random is the chance of hitting. Even upgrading Lootas to S8 would be ok. Then at least I wouldn't have to Ram a trukk full of orks into each enemy heavy vehicle i come across
I mistook the strength, no need to be a dick about it dude.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 01:34:01
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Krazed Killa Kan
Homestead, FL
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Actually you are 100% wrong  Every game I bring a SAG, a Fighta Bomba is about to make its first appearance in my lists now that its fully painted, And weird boyz. basically everything in the ork list that has a random chart that does stuff I bring. Thats fun for me, but I also want to try to win some games or at least make a competition out of it. Every army has a VIABLE means of mid to long range anti tank weaponry. For the most part ork shave weapons that will glance on 6s or randomness weapons that will only work 1/2 the time. I reserve my randomness for other aspects of the game, Hell I would bring a looted wagon if they still had rules for it in the codex (Dont press dat button) I really miss ramshackle and the old Weirdboy ways. But as I said before I would like a bit of balance to the game, tyrnids have options, hard to use but options, Demons seem to have the same problem that Orks have except that you rarely see a full demon army, usually they are detachments with Chaos armies. So Orks and Demons are the only two with no real long range options to kill vehicles.
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I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 01:39:00
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Gargantuan Gargant
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Ghazkuul wrote:Actually you are 100% wrong  Every game I bring a SAG, a Fighta Bomba is about to make its first appearance in my lists now that its fully painted, And weird boyz. basically everything in the ork list that has a random chart that does stuff I bring. Thats fun for me, but I also want to try to win some games or at least make a competition out of it. Every army has a VIABLE means of mid to long range anti tank weaponry. For the most part ork shave weapons that will glance on 6s or randomness weapons that will only work 1/2 the time. I reserve my randomness for other aspects of the game, Hell I would bring a looted wagon if they still had rules for it in the codex (Dont press dat button) I really miss ramshackle and the old Weirdboy ways. But as I said before I would like a bit of balance to the game, tyrnids have options, hard to use but options, Demons seem to have the same problem that Orks have except that you rarely see a full demon army, usually they are detachments with Chaos armies. So Orks and Demons are the only two with no real long range options to kill vehicles. I'm glad to hear you enjoy the random aspect of Orks. Also there are actually looted wagon rules, its in the White Dwarf 21, you can buy off an ebook version online if you want it legally. But don't expect any sort of reliable long-range anti-tank any time soon. I would just try and apply the tools you do have (i.e. tankbustas, units with kill-saws or power klaws) and find a way to use it according the opponent. May I see what type of list you usually use? That might help out on shedding some light on your frustrations concerning the issue of heavy vehicles. The reason why I rarely have issues with heavy vehicles is that either it is: a) A Land Raider, meaning its coming to me anyways so I just get my units ordered so I can counter-charge or try to bait it. b) A tank like the Hammerhead, Doomsday Ark or Leman Russ, where even if they take potshots at you from afar, I can use outflanking deffkoptas to aim at their rear in conjunction with a MANZ missile. Plus they rarely do enough damage to prevent me from hitting home with the rest of my units anyways.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/04 01:41:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 01:56:56
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Krazed Killa Kan
Homestead, FL
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I honestly dont have a set list, i usually just throw my stuff together when i find an opponent at the games store. Generally though i do this
usually take
Warboss eavy Armor, BP, PK DLS
Painboy
Nobz or nob bikers (1-2 PKs eavy armor) Warboss and painboy join this unit so +1 WS and a 5+ FNP
TONS of boyz usually 60-90 divided into 3 mobz Always with a Nob BP/PK
I just got my BWs so im loving the 2 BWs with 4 Big shootas and either a killkannon or a lobba up top, with 12 lootas inside each one.(mobile fire points)
Morky because he acts as a bullet sponge and i can usually use him to help my backfield Loota BW or advance him with a boyz squad to give them a 5++ And my 2 new Dakkajets/bombas are gonna make an appearance from now on.
I almost always run my SAG Big Mek with Eavy armor and throw him either in a BW or with a boyz squad to strong point an Objective.
I rarely run Deff koptas, not a fan of them, and i have a a Meganobz squad that haven't distinguished themselves yet either, I run them with 3 Kombi Skorchas and 2 PKs and a killsaw for anti tank warfare and they get tossed in a trukk.
im building another trukk and that will have a small unit of regular nobz in eavy armor that act as a Anti tank missile.
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I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 04:52:28
Subject: Re:Fixing Lootas
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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To be honest, i don't think orks have significant problems against armor even at range. We've got lots of effective reliable s8 weaponry - rokkits, kmk everywhere. It's allready enough to deal with av12-13. When it comes to av14 - just stomp it in mellee, glance it to death or plain ignore. Our army funcrions really well when we have both mellee and range units. They cover each other's weaknesses. Can't deal with vehicles or mc at range? Stomp it to death! Can't get to this annoying heavy weapon team to chop them properly? Shoot them!
BTW, we've also got s10 ap1 massive blast and s7 ap2 armorbane large blast in the book
Back to lootas. My problem with lootas is that i feel they no longer provide something vital for us. And are simultaniously not fun enough to be run regardless of this fact.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/03/04 05:21:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 14:26:27
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Moscow, Russia
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Increasing their BS to 3 would increase their damage output by 50%. Which is huge. nope nope nope nope
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 15:30:55
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Not every army has to be able to do every thing. That's why GW (re)invented the allies matrix, that and to sell more £30 codexes. Popping landraiders at range just isn't Orcs forte but they get the cheapest 'squad of chainfists' in the game so.... that makes up for it I'd say.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/04 15:31:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 15:47:39
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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This whole thread neglects the fact that LR are awful and can be ignored as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 17:03:46
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Krazed Killa Kan
Homestead, FL
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Or i could be using LR as an example of AV14 that everyone can relate to since marines are the most prevalent army in 40K and popping a LR from distance is orky
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I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/04 20:35:52
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
Maine
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Ghazkuul wrote:Or i could be using LR as an example of AV14 that everyone can relate to since marines are the most prevalent army in 40K and popping a LR from distance is orky 
Orky or not, not too many armies can really spam armor 14. And even if they can, not many armor 14 vehicles make up for their costs outside of potential superheavies. Any Land Raider I face, I merely ignore. The armor and what firepower it can bring is grossly wasted on an Ork army. Besides, if he brings lots of Land Raiders, those just chew up far more points then they can ever hope to recover. More Land Raiders means less soldiers to get in my way of objectives.  And if one gets too close, I find it far more Orky to cut it to bits with my Klaws/Saws. So satisfying! Like hot knives through butter! Mm....butter.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 20:16:44
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
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MagicJuggler wrote:Lootas really should be called Deffgunnas. They don't exactly loot much.
Back in 3rd, a Big Mek them different gubbinz and wotnots. The squad make upgrade to be Lootas. Alternately, allow any Mek to upgrade to a Loota for 10 points.
Loota: When in base-to-base with a wrecked vehicle, a Mek may forfeit shooting to attempt to jury-rig it. Roll a D6. On a 5+, remove the Mek. The vehicle is resurrected with D3 HP (up to its starting HP) under the Ork player's control, with BS 2 and subjecy to the Don't Press Dat! Rule.
OK, I like the idea that Lootas shoudl be called Deffgunners, but then, who loots the Looted Wagons? The Meks?
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INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/07 20:46:47
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
Canada
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All lootaz need is more boyz in a base squad
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DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/08 01:59:57
Subject: Fixing Lootas
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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My issue with lootas right now isnt the lootas themself, its the stupid Heavy slot. That single handedly killed them because orks cannot function without our heavies (wagons, mek gunz, or walker walls whatever floats your boat) They are easily the most vulnerable heavy support in the game that isnt 100% ignored because theyre bad on paper let alone in game. Even my tau Sniper Drones survive better because of 4+ armor, and cheaper too. I wish they'd revert them to their old form where they actually stole things. Get them back in Elites as a unit of specialized Boyz that loot downed vehicles and potentially steal guns from units they killed in assault. I'd rather just be back to Elite but yea thats not going to happen.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/08 02:00:19
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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