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Why isnt this a thing, seriously? I was thinking about why wyches keep getting worse, and then it dawned on me. GW doesnt want a troops choice to be super killy in cc, which makes sense game wise, but does not in my opinion make sense fluff wise.

So I thought, why not just move wracks to troops, because honestly it makes more sense, and thats what every one used them for when you could make foc changes with hq's.

Then by moving wyches into the elite slot you could give them a buff and just make the bloodbrides their upgrade with and extra attack/leadership more weapon options etc..

I doubt this would ever happen but it would fix some issues I have with the book.

Do you guys agree? would you play these changes, or do you like the book the way it is?

I honestly wish the book had a little more oomph to the non coven aspects, as I don't particular like that aspect of DE. And I think stuff like this would help. I didnt start DE only to be forced to play Codex Haemonculus.

Considering Wyches have an Elite version and they still suck... The problem is the fundamentals and the Edition we're in, not the slot or the odd weapon. Throw current Wyches with a Raider into 3rd Edition rules and it's an amazing unit that needs 20+ models but that is VERY killy.

Wracks also have plenty of options thanks to the Coven Formations. They're good as they are too. Scalpel Squadron does just fine at making a minimum selection with killing power and a reason for existing.

After reading the Covens codex, I do wish Wracks were troops. It makes more sense that way since they're essentially Covens mooks.

However, I'd still keep wyches as troops for the same reason. You can have CC killers as troops; look at bloodletters. 10 points each for stock AP3, furious charge, decent WS, and universal 5++. It just needs to be balanced with downsides; for instance, bloodletters have no ranged weapons, no transport, and have to deal with Daemonic Instability if they lose CC.

I think its fine wyches are troops cause they are the wych cult equivalent of kabalite warriors however they do need to be buffed, they aren't worth their points at the moment.

Me and my mate decided Rending would be appropriate. Anyone who knows their fluff knows they're experts at finding weak points in armour. Also they're basically mini Lileths and she ignores all armour saves.

I really like the rending Idea as that sort of brings them in line with daemonettes. Which I think they are comparable too, even though wyches have access to an assault transport. Would rending put them over the top?

Honestly blood brides are worse than wyches imho. They just need to be removed there is no point for them.

I really think wracks should be troops still. I think they do well where they are but just makes more sense at troops.

But I know GW likes the keep the troops at 2 choices, so that was why I had the idea of switching the two and making wyches just little more killy, or letting them use the reflexs invuln during overwatch.

Personally, I think Wracks, Wyches and Kabalites should all be Troop options. That way, you can run an all-Kabal, all-Coven or all-Cult list as you should be able to.

Interesting point about newer books only having 2 Troops choices, I hadn't noticed it before but through the removal of units (Penal Legion) or FOC-swaps (loads of HQs, BA Troops), there hasn't been a book in ages with more than 2 Troops options off the top of my head (apart from Tyranids, oddly enough). Of those that did have more, IG went from 3 to 2, BA went from 5 to 2, and through the removal of FOC-Swaps, SW, Orks, GK, and DE are all down to 2.

So at the moment, the only books with more than 2 potential troops are DA and CSM (both of which will likely see that option removed in the next codex) and Nids (not sure what you could do there..Stealers to Elites, perhaps?).

No idea why, but it does seem to be something of a trend over the last couple of years.

Rending would make sense and make them quite potent, but they'd need a semi-modest price hike to balance it out. Maybe 13ish points per girl? They'd be a terrifying MC hunter unit.

My too-complicated-don't-do-that-you-idiot solution for wyches and blood brides is to give them access to "arena fighting styles" with wyches and sirens having a "Fighter Mastery Level" or something. Wyches would be 0 or 1. Blood brides would be a step above that. Syrens and Succubae would be a step above that. Each squad would choose one fighting style per level, and then the styles would grant things like...

*Rending
*+1 dodge saves and deny overwatch
*Letting you trade out wych drugs for a random new one or possibly letting you benefit form two drugs at once.
*+1 FNP if you're in assault or were in assault on your last turn.

 Paradigm wrote:
Personally, I think Wracks, Wyches and Kabalites should all be Troop options. That way, you can run an all-Kabal, all-Coven or all-Cult list as you should be able to.

Interesting point about newer books only having 2 Troops choices, I hadn't noticed it before but through the removal of units (Penal Legion) or FOC-swaps (loads of HQs, BA Troops), there hasn't been a book in ages with more than 2 Troops options off the top of my head (apart from Tyranids, oddly enough). Of those that did have more, IG went from 3 to 2, BA went from 5 to 2, and through the removal of FOC-Swaps, SW, Orks, GK, and DE are all down to 2.

So at the moment, the only books with more than 2 potential troops are DA and CSM (both of which will likely see that option removed in the next codex) and Nids (not sure what you could do there..Stealers to Elites, perhaps?).

No idea why, but it does seem to be something of a trend over the last couple of years.

Chaos Demons have 5 Troop Choices.

Good catch Paradigm, I thought most of the books where at 2 but didn't know so many had lost, blood angels!! 5 down to 2.

Space marines might lose the bike to troops with captain on bike as well.

I see them removing stealers and putting them in a supplement honestly if the rumors can be trusted... yikes

Wyldhunt wrote:

*Rending
*+1 dodge saves and deny overwatch
*Letting you trade out wych drugs for a random new one or possibly letting you benefit form two drugs at once.
*+1 FNP if you're in assault or were in assault on your last turn.

I like it! It actually reminds me of the decurion formation bonuses for wraiths! Stupid wraiths... but thats another topic haha.

poor wyches, they really get killed by their crummy armor and overwatch, since getting them into CC is pretty darn hard. I'd vote for rending, or at least a way to deny overwatch (like a vehicle upgrade like with Chaos) OR just a point drop to compensate for it, that would be nice.

On the other hand, wyches are great -- fantastic -- models for the price

It's one of the few troop models that doesn't have crossed arms, which is always a nice thing for modelling. And, the enterprising individual can make a Succubus out of Wych parts.

Wracks make waaayyy more sense as troops. They are cannon fodder, and Wyches are supposed to be bloodcrazed gladiators.

Wracks as troops would be great. They are too useful to keep in elites.

But having wargear to stop overwatch? Needs to happen for DE. They are so fragile universally, it would be worth it.