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Hey Dakka!! I am pushing my 1000 pnt list up to 1500pnt and have come up with the following:

HQ - 165
Chaos Lord - Bike, Axe of blind fury, MoK, VotlW, sigil of corruption, Melta Bombs

Elites - 150
Chaos Terminators - 2x Powerfist/ Combi-melta, Champ w/ Chainfist and combi-melta, MoK

Troops - 484
Chaos Space Marines - 9x Marines, MoK, Champ with Power Maul, 2 x Meltagun, Rhino w/ havoc launcher, Dirge Caster
Chaos Space Marines - 9x Marines, MoK. Champ with Power Sword, 2 x flamer, Rhino w/ havoc launcher, Dirge caster

Fast Attack - 439
Chaos Bikers - 2x Plasma Gun, IoW, MoK, VotlW
Raptors - 2x Meltagun, Champ with Power Sword, MoK
Helldrake

Heavy Support - 260
Havocs - 4x Missle Launcher, Aspiring Champ w/ CCW
Maulerfiend

Total - 1498

I am aiming to make a relatively ballanced list that will work well against most foes and in most situations. My worry is that I am spending to many points on upgrades, any thoughts Dakka?

Your Choas Lord will need a invuln save though as he is forced to issues challenges and will be going last with that power axe, if a random sarg has a PF he will ID you if he gets lucky.

Elites - 159
Chaos Terminators - 2x Powerfist/ Combi-melta, Champ w/ Chainfist and combi-melta, MoK, VotlW

Hmm if the terminator squad is only 3 men it will be an easy target for your opponent once they DS into the open with nowhere to go once they shoot at his tank, so the dual PF + CF as well as the MoK and VoTL is too much of an investment for them. so if you keep a fist and drop the marks and VoTL you are saving like 30 points but still keeping the meltas for them to pop a tank.

With that 30 points you could place dirge casters onto your rhinos and add an extra man to your havoc for the extra ablative wound.
I assume those CSM will end up charging at some point? if not drop the mark. It may be an idea to put flamers on 1 squad instead of the meltas as you have a 2nd squad with meltas and your raptors with them too.

the addition of dirge casters will help your raptors and bikers get into combat if you get the rhinos close enough. they are cheap and could save some models by denying overwatch to units you charge so are worth considering.

List seems alright though, enough anti tank to open up infantry to you and the Drake will help with meqs, consider a flamer squad of csm though, could help against any hordes you face

I would drop VotLW everywhere, unless you're going up against a lot of Space Marine armies. This depends on your meta. Havocs certainly don't need it.

I would give the Raptor champ a combi-melta instead of a Power Sword.

I would just go with regular Power Axes on the termies to save a couple of points. Chainfist on the champion depends on how many vehicles you expect to face.

Your lord should have the Sigil of Corruption to increase his survivability. If you have the points for it, maybe look into the Daemonheart artefact from the Crimson Slaughter supplement? (It costs as much as three Meltaguns and gives a 2+ armour)

I have swapped the metlas for flamer on one CSM squad. I have also dropped a lot of VotlW, but kept it on the lord and bikers just incase i come against SM then i have an edge when charging there captain/special characters.

I added an extra marine to the Havoc squad (with a CCW because i had 2 points spare).

I also added a sigil or corruption to the Lord, as sugested

Any more suggestions?

why no axe of the blind fury for the Lord? that thing is killer.

I did some re calculations with battlescribe and it shows i have 27 points left (I removed the extra marine in the havoc squad too). Question is do i:

- Add 2 marines to the Havoc squad.
- Remove MoK from either the raptors or termi's and give the lord axe of blind fury.
-Other (please specify)

What you think Dakka?

Axe of blind fury for sure

Axe of blind fury it is. I did have an extra 7 points left so i put ichor blood on the lord too.

Any more thoughts?

Get rid of ichor blood and give the lord or bike champ melta bombs

Ichor blood has gone and i now have melta bombs on my lord. The lord + biker retinue are going to be a nasty HQ hunting squad.

Any more ideas?

I am still a bit worried about hoard armies. Do i have enough marines shooting?

You need a much larger squad to escort your lord. Preferably a max squad. More bikes are needed to make it into combat - bikes are not that outstandingly durable - especially khornate ones. No need for VOLW if lord goes in there. Furthermore, i'd go for meltas instead of plasmaguns for bikes as they have mobility to make use of melta radius and will need it to pop tanks for further charges.

3 power fists are too much for termies. You're taking away the thing that puts them ahead of loyalist termies - cheapness.

If you want powerfist/chainfist so badly, equip one. On a regular dude - not a champ. Others could go stock with power weapons. I prefer axes and maces. Furthermore, i'd take combi-plasma for termies. I think it's more reliable than combi-melta for a DS unit.

If you find yourself out of points, drop havok launchers. They're okish in general but nothing to write home about. And they won't fit your theme of rushing forward. Most likely, you won't even be able to use them at all either due to moving as fast as possible or getting shaken/stunned, etc.

 koooaei wrote:
You need a much larger squad to escort your lord. Preferably a max squad. More bikes are needed to make it into combat - bikes are not that outstandingly durable - especially khornate ones. No need for VOLW if lord goes in there. Furthermore, i'd go for meltas instead of plasmaguns for bikes as they have mobility to make use of melta radius and will need it to pop tanks for further charges.

3 power fists are too much for termies. You're taking away the thing that puts them ahead of loyalist termies - cheapness.

If you want powerfist/chainfist so badly, equip one. On a regular dude - not a champ. Others could go stock with power weapons. I prefer axes and maces. Furthermore, i'd take combi-plasma for termies. I think it's more reliable than combi-melta for a DS unit.

If you find yourself out of points, drop havok launchers. They're okish in general but nothing to write home about. And they won't fit your theme of rushing forward. Most likely, you won't even be able to use them at all either due to moving as fast as possible or getting shaken/stunned, etc.

I agree on all points, although I tend to like VoTLW. If you're not going to face a lot of C:SM it does nothing for them, however.

Taking those comments into account, i have come up with this:

HQ - 160
Chaos Lord - Bike, Axe of blind fury, MoK, sigil of corruption, melta bombs

Elites - 131
Chaos Terminators - 2x Power Axe/ Combi-Melta, Champ w/ Power fist and Combi-Metla, MoK

Troops - 475
Chaos Space Marines - 9x Marines, MoK,2 x Meltagun, Champ with Power Maul, Melta Bombs , Rhino w/ Destroyer Blades
Chaos Space Marines - 9x Marines, MoK. Champ with Power Sword, 2 x flamer, Rhino w/ Dirge caster

Fast Attack - 492
Chaos Bikers -3 x Boltgun, 2x Melta Gun, champ w/ CCW IoW, MoK
Raptors - 2x Meltagun, Champ with Power Sword, MoK
Helldrake

Heavy Support - 240
Havocs - 4x AC, Aspiring Champ w/ CCW
Maulerfiend

Total - 1498

The Only way i could get a full squad of bikers is by dropping the raptors or termi's.

Any more thoughts?

Looks really good. I would be happy using it as it is. If I could tweak it I would...
Downgrading the missile launchers to autocannons will get you a few spare points for bikes. You have lots of melta for anti-armour so you may not be too effected by this change.
I would also have gone combi-melta on the terminators to give you another unit you can deep strike to pop armour.

If you can rustle up some spare points I would consider destroyer blades on the Rhino to allow them to do some damage after they have dropped off their cargo. You could possibly drop a dirge caster. Over watch is not too effective against powered armour, since it is a range thing if you have a concentrated assault a single one will cover it.

I have adjusted the list and swapped the ML's for ACs and the combi-plasma's (on the termi's) for combi- melta. I then swapped a dirge caster for destroyer blades on one of the rhinos. This left me with 10 points so i gave the lord and a CSM champ melta bombs.

That is a good looking list. ACs can deal with light vehicles like the MLs would have, so that's still a plus. You may miss them when dealing with a horde army, but your templates will help with that. If you're going to fight lots of orks or 'nids they bike may be better than termies but your list seems well rounded now. Let us know how it does.

Thanks Lord and everyone else who has commented.

Just one more thing. Do i go Bolter or CCW with the CSM squads?

I would be tempted to go with CCW on the flamer squad, but it depends on the type of opponets you will face. It is a Khorne list so you will probably want the extra edge in CC.

I will go CCW with the CSM squads, like you say being Khornate it gives them an edge in CC.

Now the list is complete i can concentrate on building them

Hell, I may try this list myself.

Let me know how it goes. Oh and thank you for getting me into baatlescribe, best app i have seen in a long time for warhammer 40k

I have around 200 lists that I have tooled around with while at work. Helps you learn a little about other armies without having to buy a bunch of codex(s?) that you will never use.