Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/02/27 10:54:44
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Peregrine wrote: The ATF is just applying existing laws in a consistent manner. If you don't like what's happening then you should be complaining about the current laws on armor-piercing ammunition, not the proposed reclassification (with good reasons) of one specific type of 5.56mm ammunition.
This. It's a government agency doing their job in accordance with law, if the law is silly it's not the agency's fault that the outcome is silly because they're not supposed to be allowed to ignore laws they don't feel like following.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/02/27 11:40:32
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Even if higher end body armour stops these big rounds that are still legal, the damage done to human body is still high.
Stopping a bullet in few inches, from that velocity will hurt like hell and maybe break ribs etc.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
2015/02/27 12:22:40
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
jreilly89 wrote:[I get what you're trying to say, but just reread that last sentence...
Breotan wrote:Yea, but they can't just outright ban all rifle ammo. Doing it this way is like the camel pushing its nose under the tent. Still, it's all a stupid stunt by the ATF. Criminals don't go around using AR-15s. You can't really conceal them (even the pistol variants) and they're expensive. That's why you see gangs with 9mm or .45 pistols; they're relatively cheap and can be easily concealed.
Exactly.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2015/02/27 13:10:45
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Ouze wrote: Oh, no doubt. They aren't even addressing steel 7.62, which is presumably next. But if they were effective or efficient, they wouldn't be the ATF; a federal department which in my opinion should not even exist.
To comment on this, the funny thing about bimetal 7.62x39 is it's not armor piercing at all, despite AP ammo being banned for importation on this platform -- really it's just the caliber of bullet that causes the damage. The steel itself is mild
I think you're missing what I was saying. I'm not making an comment on the efficacy of the rounds in question. I'm speaking to what the legal definition of "armor piercing" is, as per the Gun Control Act. If the ATF considers the steel tip in M855 to be the "bullet core", it's not a reach to think that the steel core of a Tulammo bimetal 7.62 is also a steel core by their thinking (and frankly by common sense).
Again, the performance is irrelevant, the law defines specific metals and combinations thereof as what constitutes a banned round.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/02/27 14:34:26
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Dreadclaw69 wrote: In that case you should be positively reviled by anti gun culture given their well documented aversion to the truth.
The lack of technical knowledge among anti-gun lobbyists, and the dreadful laws they try to pass as a result is also terrible, yes.
Between the two sides you have the farce thst passes for gun debate in the US.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2015/02/27 15:25:36
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Alex C wrote: Their definition of "armor piercing" is that it will defeat level 2 and 3a body armour which police wear.
This is not the legal definition of armor piercing as it applies to the legislation in question.
17)
(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
(C) The term “armor piercing ammunition” does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.
The ammunition in question, despite the spectacularly trollish headline - posted by someone who knows full well how full of gak it is - is not "a ban on 5.56 bullets". It's the elimination of waiver previously granted to military surplus ammunition, M855, which has a steel penetrator tip. The term "projectile core" is not legally defined.
This is a pretty crappy move, but it's not a ban - it's not even in effect. It's a proposal. Don't like it? Write your elected official and get the Gun Control Act updated, it's full of stupid nonsense.
Back the conversation a bit. The thread title is stretching the truth a bit, but not by much.
Im actually in firearms sales and training, so I actually know what Im talking about on this issue. Ammunition is defined as a complete round (bullet, powder, casing, primer) and bullet is the actual projectile.
The exemption for XM855 ammunition and the S109 bullet was pulled quietly, wiithout public comment in December 2012. Went completely under the radar, the PDF on the ATF site was scrubbed. We can find links for it using WABAC, and some people on 4Chan dug a little deeper and found that yes, ATF did make the determination December 2012.
The ammo is banned - for all intents and purposes.
Importers and manufacturers cannot sell to the civilian market. Civilians may still posses the ammo PROVIDED their state does not make possession of armor piercing ammo illegal - Ill get back to this in a minute. Manufacturers have ceased production in light of the March 16th date. The current comment period is for manufacturers and importers to suggest how best to cease production and import without affecting their overall business.
The exemption was pulled via a request from the Justice Department (Eric Holder) under the idea that since this particular NON ARMOR PIERCING ammunition can be fired from a handgun, it can now be considered armor piercing. 30 years after the determination was made that this round was not AP, it was in effect reversed and now considered AP, though nothing has changed about the bullet in question. The reasoning being that a centerfire round can be considered AP if it can be fired from a handgun, not its composition.
Guess what: most centerfire rounds (hunting/pistol) can be fired from handguns. So, if this "ban" goes uncontested, ANY caliber can be considered AP and therefore banned That's the slippery slope someone suggested.
Now, back to civilian possession.
If the state you are in does not allow AP ammunition in the hands of the peasants - because of this new determination - you are now a criminal in possession of contraband. In those states where possession is not prohibited, you can still own and sell this ammo. BUT, there is a finite supply and demand is through the roof. Great time for the neckbeards. As this occurs, other weights (this is what the GR stands for - grains) that can be fired in the AR then go up in price and scarcity - 62gr bullets made up over 25% of the ammunition used in ARs. So, now there is a run on 55gr 556/223 ammunition. The ammunition companies were already under stress to meet demand BEFORE this occurred.
So, it's not much of a stretch to call this a ban on 5.56mm bullets. But it falls woefully short in that it doenst include the effect it has on all ammunition that can be fired from an AR.
2015/02/27 15:46:01
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Spacemanvic wrote: The exemption for XM855 ammunition and the S109 bullet was pulled quietly, wiithout public comment in December 2012. Went completely under the radar, the PDF on the ATF site was scrubbed. We can find links for it using WABAC, and some people on 4Chan dug a little deeper and found that yes, ATF did make the determination December 2012.
Are these the same 4chan detectives that identified that missing college student as the boston bomber?
VI. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16,
2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical to
do so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on or
before March 16, 2015. ATF will not acknowledge receipt of comments.
Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple
times or by more than one method):
ATF website: APAComments@atf.gov. Follow the instructions for submitting comments.
Fax: (202) 648-9741.
Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs
and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue,
NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs and
Services, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives,
U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone:
(202) 648-7070.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/27 15:46:23
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/02/27 15:49:24
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Alex C wrote: Their definition of "armor piercing" is that it will defeat level 2 and 3a body armour which police wear.
This is not the legal definition of armor piercing as it applies to the legislation in question.
17)
(A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
(C) The term “armor piercing ammunition” does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.
The ammunition in question, despite the spectacularly trollish headline - posted by someone who knows full well how full of gak it is - is not "a ban on 5.56 bullets". It's the elimination of waiver previously granted to military surplus ammunition, M855, which has a steel penetrator tip. The term "projectile core" is not legally defined.
This is a pretty crappy move, but it's not a ban - it's not even in effect. It's a proposal. Don't like it? Write your elected official and get the Gun Control Act updated, it's full of stupid nonsense.
Back the conversation a bit. The thread title is stretching the truth a bit, but not by much.
Im actually in firearms sales and training, so I actually know what Im talking about on this issue. Ammunition is defined as a complete round (bullet, powder, casing, primer) and bullet is the actual projectile.
The exemption for XM855 ammunition and the S109 bullet was pulled quietly, wiithout public comment in December 2012. Went completely under the radar, the PDF on the ATF site was scrubbed. We can find links for it using WABAC, and some people on 4Chan dug a little deeper and found that yes, ATF did make the determination December 2012.
The ammo is banned - for all intents and purposes.
Importers and manufacturers cannot sell to the civilian market. Civilians may still posses the ammo PROVIDED their state does not make possession of armor piercing ammo illegal - Ill get back to this in a minute. Manufacturers have ceased production in light of the March 16th date. The current comment period is for manufacturers and importers to suggest how best to cease production and import without affecting their overall business.
The exemption was pulled via a request from the Justice Department (Eric Holder) under the idea that since this particular NON ARMOR PIERCING ammunition can be fired from a handgun, it can now be considered armor piercing. 30 years after the determination was made that this round was not AP, it was in effect reversed and now considered AP, though nothing has changed about the bullet in question. The reasoning being that a centerfire round can be considered AP if it can be fired from a handgun, not its composition.
Guess what: most centerfire rounds (hunting/pistol) can be fired from handguns. So, if this "ban" goes uncontested, ANY caliber can be considered AP and therefore banned That's the slippery slope someone suggested.
Now, back to civilian possession.
If the state you are in does not allow AP ammunition in the hands of the peasants - because of this new determination - you are now a criminal in possession of contraband. In those states where possession is not prohibited, you can still own and sell this ammo. BUT, there is a finite supply and demand is through the roof. Great time for the neckbeards. As this occurs, other weights (this is what the GR stands for - grains) that can be fired in the AR then go up in price and scarcity - 62gr bullets made up over 25% of the ammunition used in ARs. So, now there is a run on 55gr 556/223 ammunition. The ammunition companies were already under stress to meet demand BEFORE this occurred.
So, it's not much of a stretch to call this a ban on 5.56mm bullets. But it falls woefully short in that it doenst include the effect it has on all ammunition that can be fired from an AR.
The arbitrary redefining of "armor piercing" by unelected bureaucrats is worrisome. XM855 was not designed and intended to be used in pistols, it was specifically developed for use in M4 rifles, it is a centerfire rifle round. The fact that "pistol" variants of AR-15s exist does not rewrite the history of the R&D of XM855. To declare that a 5.56 round is intended and designed for use in a pistol as if the R&D process was the same as an actual pisol round like .40 S&W is crazy.
Any centerfire rifle cartridge is going to be able to punch through Level II or Level IIA or Level III soft body armor, typically worn under uniforms by LEOs because the armor isn't designed to stop rifle rounds. It's just a matter of ballistics .30-30, .30-06, .308, .270 will all punch through Level II as well and it's not because of some contrived definition of "armor piercing."
Nobody was running around murdering people in Level II vests via AR-15 pistols loaded with M855 rounds. It's a nonexitent problem that didn't need to be solved.
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
2015/02/27 17:36:50
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Spacemanvic wrote: The exemption for XM855 ammunition and the S109 bullet was pulled quietly, wiithout public comment in December 2012. Went completely under the radar, the PDF on the ATF site was scrubbed. We can find links for it using WABAC, and some people on 4Chan dug a little deeper and found that yes, ATF did make the determination December 2012.
Are these the same 4chan detectives that identified that missing college student as the boston bomber?
Actually, if you reread my post carefully and probably slowly, you'll notice that 4Chan was looking for proof of the link to the comment request that ATF took down, so 4Chan isnt listed as a source. The "source" was industry wide knowledge of the "sporting purpose" BATFE was defining back in 2012.
Here are two articles from 2012 that discuss the commentary period regarding "sporting purposes":
From page 15 of the 17 page document you provided a link to:
ATF recognizes that this ammunition is widely available to the public. Because it is legally permissible to possess armor piercing ammunition under current law,
withdrawing the exemption will not place individuals in criminal possession of armor piercing ammunition. However, with few exceptions, manufacturers will be unable to produce such armor piercing ammunition, importers will be unable to import such ammunition,and manufacturers and importers will be prohibited from selling or distributing the ammunition. ATF is specifically soliciting comments on how it can best implement withdrawal of this exemption while minimizing disruption to the ammunition and firearm industry and maximizing officer safety.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/27 17:38:17
2015/02/27 17:46:50
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Oh no!Americas well regulated militia is doomed!But seriously maybe this is a stupid question but:Why do people NEED armour piercing bullets anyway?Why not use regular bullets?Is this to do with the weird "goverment is going to take our freedoms" stuff I have seen on dakka before?
Kote!
Kandosii sa ka'rte, vode an.
Coruscanta a'den mhi, vode an.
Bal kote,Darasuum kote,
Jorso'ran kando a tome.
Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad vode an.
Bal...
Motir ca'tra nau tracinya.
Gra'tua cuun hett su dralshy'a.
Aruetyc talyc runi'la trattok'a.
Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad, vode an!
2015/02/27 17:48:13
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Da krimson barun wrote: Oh no!Americas well regulated militia is doomed!But seriously maybe this is a stupid question but:Why do people NEED armour piercing bullets anyway?Why not use regular bullets?Is this to do with the weird "goverment is going to take our freedoms" stuff I have seen on dakka before?
Why do you care?
Why do we import irish whiskey?
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/02/27 17:53:17
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
I believe that you are factually incorrect. From page 1:
This notice is provided to ensure that the regulated industry and members of the public understand the statute and
relevant legislative history, and have an opportunity to review and provide comments or suggestions on the proposed framework.
As in, the comment period has not ended. The framework for withdrawing from the market isn't even present, so how can that be commented upon?
Do you have any sources that aren't from the derposphere?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/27 17:55:45
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/02/27 18:03:08
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Da krimson barun wrote: Oh no!Americas well regulated militia is doomed!But seriously maybe this is a stupid question but:Why do people NEED armour piercing bullets anyway?Why not use regular bullets?Is this to do with the weird "goverment is going to take our freedoms" stuff I have seen on dakka before?
Why do you care?
Why do we import irish whiskey?
Thanks.Very helpful.You import Irish whiskey because its better then yours I guess.Also because it isnt designed to kill people. Maybe because you dont need to reference a law that says only well organized militias can have it.
Kote!
Kandosii sa ka'rte, vode an.
Coruscanta a'den mhi, vode an.
Bal kote,Darasuum kote,
Jorso'ran kando a tome.
Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad vode an.
Bal...
Motir ca'tra nau tracinya.
Gra'tua cuun hett su dralshy'a.
Aruetyc talyc runi'la trattok'a.
Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad, vode an!
2015/02/27 18:03:33
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Ouze wrote: I believe that you are factually incorrect. From page 1:
This notice is provided to ensure that the regulated industry and members of the public understand the statute and
relevant legislative history, and have an opportunity to review and provide comments or suggestions on the proposed framework.
As in, the comment period has not ended. The framework for withdrawing from the market isn't even present, so how can that be commented upon?
Do you have any sources that aren't from the derposphere?
Dear God.
You do understand that "sporting purpose" was defined already, and that XM855 was found to NOT be of "sporting purpose" WAAAAYYYYY back in 2012, and that the framework presented in 2015 is, and I quote from the ATF document itself (cant get any closer to source material than the authors themselves):
ATF recognizes that this ammunition is widely available to the public. Because it is legally permissible to possess armor piercing ammunition under current law,
withdrawing the exemption will not place individuals in criminal possession of armor piercing ammunition. However, with few exceptions, manufacturers will be unable to produce such armor piercing ammunition, importers will be unable to import such ammunition,and manufacturers and importers will be prohibited from selling or distributing the ammunition. ATF is specifically soliciting comments on how it can best implement withdrawal of this exemption while minimizing disruption to the ammunition and firearm industry and maximizing officer safety.
At some point, you have to realize that some things just cant be fixed. In that spirit, Ill end my "discussion" on the matter with you and Ill go fix something else.
Take care Ouze.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/27 18:11:10
2015/02/27 18:26:52
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
I really could go on and on. (I haven't even gotten to the Brady Campaign which says its better to be raped than defend yourself.)
Spoiler:
The fact that they've tried and failed to ban "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines doesn't mean they won't try again. And after that they'll go after "high caliber sniper rifles" which is any hunting rifle.
Washington DC and Chicago are what they want, guns for the elite, not for the peasants.
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
2015/02/27 18:27:12
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
ATF recognizes that this ammunition is widely available to the public. Because it is legally permissible to possess armor piercing ammunition under current law,
withdrawing the exemption will not place individuals in criminal possession of armor piercing ammunition. However, with few exceptions, manufacturers will be unable to produce such armor piercing ammunition, importers will be unable to import such ammunition,and manufacturers and importers will be prohibited from selling or distributing the ammunition. ATF is specifically soliciting comments on how it can best implement withdrawal of this exemption while minimizing disruption to the ammunition and firearm industry and maximizing officer safety.
Yep, best implement withdrawal of the exemption does not leave room for commenting on if the withdrawal itself should take place.
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings.
2015/02/27 18:27:49
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
And as I recall, Ouze or Hats or someone when this last came up showed how easy it was to fake the "photo of a screen" picture. Using whembly. Was funny.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/27 18:28:44
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2015/02/27 18:28:25
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Ouze wrote: Oh, no doubt. They aren't even addressing steel 7.62, which is presumably next. But if they were effective or efficient, they wouldn't be the ATF; a federal department which in my opinion should not even exist.
To comment on this, the funny thing about bimetal 7.62x39 is it's not armor piercing at all, despite AP ammo being banned for importation on this platform -- really it's just the caliber of bullet that causes the damage. The steel itself is mild
I think you're missing what I was saying. I'm not making an comment on the efficacy of the rounds in question. I'm speaking to what the legal definition of "armor piercing" is, as per the Gun Control Act. If the ATF considers the steel tip in M855 to be the "bullet core", it's not a reach to think that the steel core of a Tulammo bimetal 7.62 is also a steel core by their thinking (and frankly by common sense).
Again, the performance is irrelevant, the law defines specific metals and combinations thereof as what constitutes a banned round.
Tulammo 7.62x39 does NOT have a steel core. It is composed of 80% lead core and a 20% steel jacket. I shoot that ammo so I have experience on the matter. This round IS NOT armor piercing, and having a mild steel tip (if you are shooting Tulammo FMJs) would not make it armor piercing either.
Peregrine wrote: The ATF is just applying existing laws in a consistent manner. If you don't like what's happening then you should be complaining about the current laws on armor-piercing ammunition, not the proposed reclassification (with good reasons) of one specific type of 5.56mm ammunition.
This. It's a government agency doing their job in accordance with law, if the law is silly it's not the agency's fault that the outcome is silly because they're not supposed to be allowed to ignore laws they don't feel like following.
So...legalism? For the third time, the problem them have is they claim citizens are using M855 in AR pistols, but have yet to offer evidence of this. Really what law enforcement has to worry about are hand guns.
jhe90 wrote: Even if higher end body armour stops these big rounds that are still legal, the damage done to human body is still high.
Stopping a bullet in few inches, from that velocity will hurt like hell and maybe break ribs etc.
Somehow I doubt that armor piercing ammo is commonly used in crimes and would warrant a ban. Having a round slice cleanly through human tissue is better for you than a non-AP round. There is a reason the Soviets replaced the Tokarev cartridge (7.62x25) with the Makarov (9x18) and then later the 9MM Parabellum. Overpenetration proved ineffective in stopping a target. It's not fun to be shot at all, though in the scenario AP ammo was used, it would be better to have it used in this scenario. Long gun crime with AR pattern guns is very low in this country so it's a non issue.
All in all this ban makes no sense other than to serve on a feel-good basis.
When is deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
And wave your hands and shout.
2015/02/27 18:41:10
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Upgrade the body armor lol. Surplus of body armor now since we're no longer in Iraq
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2015/02/27 18:44:13
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
The Airman wrote: Tulammo 7.62x39 does NOT have a steel core. It is composed of 80% lead core and a 20% steel jacket. I shoot that ammo so I have experience on the matter. This round IS NOT armor piercing, and having a mild steel tip (if you are shooting Tulammo FMJs) would not make it armor piercing either.
Thank you for the information. I too shoot Tulammo 7.62 but was mistaken as to how it was the rounds were built.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/02/27 19:21:36
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
Kilkrazy wrote: Not having read the theead but surely there isn't any such thing as bullets per se?
It's cartridges that you load into your clip.
In this case, it's the bullets themselves which are the concern - the steel penetrator tip is an intrinsic part of the bullet, which is then built into a cartridge.
But I am now realizing this might have been a roundabout subtle joke.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/27 19:42:46
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2015/02/27 19:39:58
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
The Airman wrote: Tulammo 7.62x39 does NOT have a steel core. It is composed of 80% lead core and a 20% steel jacket. I shoot that ammo so I have experience on the matter. This round IS NOT armor piercing, and having a mild steel tip (if you are shooting Tulammo FMJs) would not make it armor piercing either.
Thank you for the information. I too shoot Tulammo 7.62 but was mistaken as to how it was the rounds were built.
Yeah, it's not common information unfortunately. I'd profess it from the mountaintops if I could!
Though what concerns me is a possible "snowball" ban of steel cased/bimetal ammunition because of the misinformation surrounding it, like that of the M855 through AR pistols. I mean, if a criminal wanted something that would negate an officer's protective vest, something like an affordable new production M57 Tokarev would do the job. If you were also so inclined, a Mosin can definitely pose a threat to said armor. (I don't endorse this, I am just pointing out the flaws in their reasoning) The Soviet calibers are definite penetrators by their design so I'd hate to see them go the way of the dinosaur because of unfounded fear.
When is deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
And wave your hands and shout.
2015/02/27 19:48:05
Subject: Re:Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
I mean it is well know that reality has a liberal bias.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2015/02/27 19:52:31
Subject: Obama Administration to ban 5.56mm bullets.
