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The situation is my wraith's are in a ruins roughly 6" away (3" across and 3" up) from an enemy model.

First question is when charging the unit do I still subtract 2 from my charge distance?

Secondly If I make the charge and can't place the model on the ruins (because wraith's are terrible for that) how do I work that situation?

1st; retracted

2nd: This has been covered here before numerous times, there is no specific rule for it. The only thing existing is to claim WMS and say they share the small space there is/hang in the air.

edit: dont know what i was thinking, i missed the word wraith

1. No, as the wraithflight special rule tells you to treat all terrain as open terrain, they do not suffer any penalties for charging in difficult terrain. However if you were charging with a "normal" unit, you would subtract 2 from your charge distance.

2. RAW, you would not be allowed to charge the unit, since you can't climb up floors without being able to place the model there. However most groups simply place the model on the floor underneath and treat it as if it is in base contact. I wouldn't call this "applying WMS", because WMS can only be applied when a model can be placed, although not stand properly. This is more like a house rule/rule fix that is very common to use (because this is how things worked in 6th ed and no one actually believe that GW intended this to change)

jay_mo is correct, due to the Wraithflight rule, they treat all terrain as open ground and take no penalties unless a special rule forces you to to move as if in difficult terrain.

For point two, try and gently put it up there, seeing if it fits half hanging off and use WMS to make sure your wraith don't take a tumble. Ruins should have a plethora of room to place your models in. If you physically can't place your models in them due to how they are made, I suggest using an appropriately sized base and use that for base contact.

The RAW is you can't use anything but Citadel Scenery Models, so if someone makes or uses terrain so you can't ever reach them, tell them that's not in the spirit of the game.

I am unclear on something: do wraiths have to consider height in their movement?

I charged a unit of long fangs which were on the second floor of a ruined bldg. My wraiths charged from open ground 6 inches away from the ruins. Must I add 3 inches to the charge distance to move up a level, or does wraith flight work like a jump pack in that it ignores vertical distance?

Thanks

 Deuce11 wrote:
I am unclear on something: do wraiths have to consider height in their movement?

I charged a unit of long fangs which were on the second floor of a ruined bldg. My wraiths charged from open ground 6 inches away from the ruins. Must I add 3 inches to the charge distance to move up a level, or does wraith flight work like a jump pack in that it ignores vertical distance?

Thanks

Jump pack Units do not ignore vertical distance. They ignore vertical obstacles. You still measure direct distance.

As Wraiths move "as if Open Ground", they would count Horizontal + Vertical (While Jump Units count "Hypotenuse")

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Deuce11 wrote:
I am unclear on something: do wraiths have to consider height in their movement?

I charged a unit of long fangs which were on the second floor of a ruined bldg. My wraiths charged from open ground 6 inches away from the ruins. Must I add 3 inches to the charge distance to move up a level, or does wraith flight work like a jump pack in that it ignores vertical distance?

Thanks

Jump pack Units do not ignore vertical distance. They ignore vertical obstacles. You still measure direct distance.

As Wraiths move "as if Open Ground", they would count Horizontal + Vertical (While Jump Units count "Hypotenuse")

Whoops, I cheated then. My opponent and I agreed on measuring the hypotenuse for charge distance.

Thanks!

I'm not sure about the "no penalties" part. Harlequins specify no initiative penalty, Wraith Flight does not.

I however, don't have the Necron book, so will only state that I am unsure of this statement, and you should check with your opponent/tournament organizer for further clarification or official ruling.

Per the new Wraithflight they are never moving through anything but open terrain.

Gravmyr wrote:
Per the new Wraithflight they are never moving through anything but open terrain.

Please quote the rule, as it is difficult for me to interpret a meaning without a quote.


The Harlequin rule says that it is never slowed by difficult terrain, and does not suffer the initiative penalty for charging through difficult terrain. Jetbikes, jump packs, and jet packs all say that they move freely over all terrain and models. These are paraphrased of course, so you can see what I mean.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Deuce11 wrote:
I am unclear on something: do wraiths have to consider height in their movement?

I charged a unit of long fangs which were on the second floor of a ruined bldg. My wraiths charged from open ground 6 inches away from the ruins. Must I add 3 inches to the charge distance to move up a level, or does wraith flight work like a jump pack in that it ignores vertical distance?

Thanks

Jump pack Units do not ignore vertical distance. They ignore vertical obstacles. You still measure direct distance.

As Wraiths move "as if Open Ground", they would count Horizontal + Vertical (While Jump Units count "Hypotenuse")

Wait i know they move 12 but are they jump pack units? or beasts?

i remember jump packs ignore the height but i dont thin beasts did.

They are Beasts, but their Wraithflight rule treats all models and terrain as "Open Ground" essentially making them "Jump Beasts" while also ignoring any penalty of moving/charging through terrain.

When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it

Basically treat them as moving/swimming through everything, so no traveling on the hypotenuse.

 Nilok wrote:
They are Beasts, but their Wraithflight rule treats all models and terrain as "Open Ground" essentially making them "Jump Beasts" while also ignoring any penalty of moving/charging through terrain.

When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it

Basically treat them as moving/swimming through everything, so no traveling on the hypotenuse.

So they are not given permission to ignore the vertical distance what so ever then eh?

 Desubot wrote:

 Nilok wrote:
They are Beasts, but their Wraithflight rule treats all models and terrain as "Open Ground" essentially making them "Jump Beasts" while also ignoring any penalty of moving/charging through terrain.

When moving, Canoptek Wraiths can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground. However, they cannot end their move on top of other models and can only end their move on top of impassable terrain if it is possible to actually place the models on top of it

Basically treat them as moving/swimming through everything, so no traveling on the hypotenuse.

So they are not given permission to ignore the vertical distance what so ever then eh?

No one is. Not Jump, not Jet, not FMC, not Flyers, nothing.

They can (possibly arguably) ignore any height the pass over / under / between but the height difference in their move will always be counted one way or the other.

For Jump, you measure starting point "A" to end point "B" and measure Base-to-Base what distance you have moved (same for FMC, Flyer, and anything that "ignores intervening")

While Wraithflight just makes everything Open ground, so they still have to "climb" vertically.

As an example:
Ruined building 3" high first floor, large ground floor space in the centre. You want to charge from one side to the other, 6" separates both sides.

Jump Units would only count 6" (as it's the same vertical height)
Wraith would have to do 6" + 3" + 3" (jump down, move 6, jump up) and need 12".

this thread was a huge help. thanks dakka!