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Hi

Am venturing forth into the hobby so please be gentle. Am putting together my first army and have fallen in love with eldar and harlequin so have thrown together this list to mainly play against my friend who is foung the same and putting together a dark Angels army. Could someone with an ounce of experience let me know if my planned tactics are sound... My list as I have it at the moment is as follows (this is changeable as I only have harlequin and Fire dragon models) list is 1000pt and unbound

Harlequin troupe (5) all with kisses: 120
Shadowseer: 60
Starweaver transport: 70

Fire dragons (5) with exarch and fastshot: 130
Wave serpent transport with Holyfield and twin scatter: 135

Warp spider (5): 95

Jet bikes (3): 51

Wraithlord with scatter, starcannon and ghostglaive: 165

Farseer with singing spear:105
Dire Avengers with exarch: 75


Tactics!

1. So planning for the harlequin troupe to be terminator/space marine squad killers, rocking up quickly in starweavers hitting and running and blowing the oppo away

2. Fire dragons to be in wave Serpent who is dealing with whatever then disembarking and eliminating tanks

3. Warp spiders to jump in and out and generally cause havoc

4. Wraithlord as anti air support and long range tank and squad backup

5. Farseer and dire avengers to be ground units ducking and diving supporting where needed

6. Jet bikes objective grabbing

Does this sound like it could work?

Seems decent, but in my experience wraithlords are not very good. For that same 160 points you could get two warwalkers with the same weaponry but get double the shots, might even be cheaper but i dont have my codex with me

Thanks for your comments

It's a shame that the wraithlords are rubbish, love the models so much.

The war walkers are 60 each then only 5pts for each weapon so could have the same for 20pts less... Hmmm

Is 2x 2hp better that 1x3 wounds? I suppose two targets are better than one too.

Damage output it would be 2x scatter laser and 2x starcanon of the walkers vs 1x flamer, 1x shurikan catapult, 1x scatter laser, 1xstar canon and 1x ghostglaive of the wraithlord

Why is this an unbound list? Are jetbikes not troops and Farseers not HQs? Doesn't that make it a cad?

It's the harlequin detachment making it unbound

codex detachments dont mean unbound.

if you follow a codex detachment you are still following a FoC, but it is not considered unbound.
You may not get Objective Secured, but at least your following some sort of structure.

 Icculus wrote:
codex detachments dont mean unbound.

if you follow a codex detachment you are still following a FoC, but it is not considered unbound.
You may not get Objective Secured, but at least your following some sort of structure.

Harlequind only have formations so if they arent using one of those its unbound

Well I could go bound by running the harlequins without the starweaver and with a death jester, would be 10pts cheaper too but lack a bit of protection? How good are the starweavers in reality?? Probably too early to tell no?

Was also considering dropping the farseer for a solitaire. Not sure if this is a wise choice though as then who would be my HQ?

Xeones7 wrote:
Well I could go bound by running the harlequins without the starweaver and with a death jester, would be 10pts cheaper too but lack a bit of protection? How good are the starweavers in reality?? Probably too early to tell no?

Was also considering dropping the farseer for a solitaire. Not sure if this is a wise choice though as then who would be my HQ?

You could make the Troupe Master your HQ and roll on the Harlequin tables if you cut the Farseer. If you're running Harlequins, though, consider getting a Spiritseer, as Runes of Battle and Telepathy are both really good for Harlequins (Conceal, Invisibility, Psychic Scream, Quicken, etc.) Plus, it saves you 30 points.

Jury is still out on the Starweavers, but they look good on paper.

The Solitaire/Shadowseer/Death Jester formation looks pretty good, too. The Shadowseer is the only "tax" because it can't join another unit, but it still offers Warp Charge and can help out in a combat or cap an objective while sitting in cover. 60 points seems reasonable for a "tax" that makes your Solitaire really nasty.

I played a 1000pt harlequin list last week with 1 Starweaver and 2 foot troupes as a test to see how they stacked up.

I gotta say, veil proved a way more powerful defensive spell than I thought it would be. The Starweaver ate the dust at the bottom of turn 1 to a TL devourer Carnifex that I failed to psychic shriek (he denied three successes with four dice...my sads...) while the foot troupes weren't scratched until they'd already been in and out of combat once. To be fair it was against Nids, but it was fairly shooty Nids with a flyrant a dakkafex some shooty warriors and gribblies and a Tervigon.

The ability to totally ignore Terrain and run+charge with fleet gives the harlies a huge threat range on foot.

 Asmodas wrote:

Xeones7 wrote:
Well I could go bound by running the harlequins without the starweaver and with a death jester, would be 10pts cheaper too but lack a bit of protection? How good are the starweavers in reality?? Probably too early to tell no?

Was also considering dropping the farseer for a solitaire. Not sure if this is a wise choice though as then who would be my HQ?

You could make the Troupe Master your HQ and roll on the Harlequin tables if you cut the Farseer. If you're running Harlequins, though, consider getting a Spiritseer, as Runes of Battle and Telepathy are both really good for Harlequins (Conceal, Invisibility, Psychic Scream, Quicken, etc.) Plus, it saves you 30 points.

Jury is still out on the Starweavers, but they look good on paper.

The Solitaire/Shadowseer/Death Jester formation looks pretty good, too. The Shadowseer is the only "tax" because it can't join another unit, but it still offers Warp Charge and can help out in a combat or cap an objective while sitting in cover. 60 points seems reasonable for a "tax" that makes your Solitaire really nasty.

Yeah think once we up the points to 1500 then the path of heroes formation will be s good call. Good idea on the spiritseer hadn't thought about one. What do you mean by 'tax'? Is the shadowseer wasted in that formation?

Would be good to get some more feedback on the starweaver before I pump 25 quid on one only to find it sucks. It lasting until the end of turn one isn't a good sign! Instead of the starweaver could get the official troupe, shadowseer and deathjester and get the bonuses with that formation.

May well get a solitaire and a farseer and experiment with different setups (bare in mind I've only played the dark vengeance scenarios).

The thing you need to understand about your list not being "bound" is that Harlequin lack an HQ slot. Shadowseers, Solitaires, and Deathjesters are elites, and Troupe master is a troop, not HQs.

And I know it's only 1000 pts, but foot dire avengers will have a rough time with their 18" gun unless he's ramming down your throat. But then again, you can run and still shoot...

DirtyDeeds wrote:
The thing you need to understand about your list not being "bound" is that Harlequin lack an HQ slot. Shadowseers, Solitaires, and Deathjesters are elites, and Troupe master is a troop, not HQs.

And I know it's only 1000 pts, but foot dire avengers will have a rough time with their 18" gun unless he's ramming down your throat. But then again, you can run and still shoot...

The dire avengers would be with a farseer/spiritseer hopefully aiding some protection or they would be dropped for the solitaire. That's the difference in the lists. Solitaire + warp spider exarch and extra fire dragon vs farseer + dire avengers foot unit.

Sorry not understanding the hq comment of the harlequins, they don't have an hq so that means I can't take them or they can be taken if looking to go unbound?

Sorry I'm old and a newbie (not a good combo!!)

A valid Harlequin formation can be taken as a bound allies option. The allies detachment is like a generic formation, and must have an HQ choice, but the Harlie formations can be taken instead of that.

So, if you take a bound Eldar detachment and ally in a Harlequin formation, it is still bound.

Look in the other Harlequin threads regarding how and what you can take.

Xeones7 wrote:

 Asmodas wrote:

Xeones7 wrote:
Well I could go bound by running the harlequins without the starweaver and with a death jester, would be 10pts cheaper too but lack a bit of protection? How good are the starweavers in reality?? Probably too early to tell no?

Was also considering dropping the farseer for a solitaire. Not sure if this is a wise choice though as then who would be my HQ?

You could make the Troupe Master your HQ and roll on the Harlequin tables if you cut the Farseer. If you're running Harlequins, though, consider getting a Spiritseer, as Runes of Battle and Telepathy are both really good for Harlequins (Conceal, Invisibility, Psychic Scream, Quicken, etc.) Plus, it saves you 30 points.

Jury is still out on the Starweavers, but they look good on paper.

The Solitaire/Shadowseer/Death Jester formation looks pretty good, too. The Shadowseer is the only "tax" because it can't join another unit, but it still offers Warp Charge and can help out in a combat or cap an objective while sitting in cover. 60 points seems reasonable for a "tax" that makes your Solitaire really nasty.

Yeah think once we up the points to 1500 then the path of heroes formation will be s good call. Good idea on the spiritseer hadn't thought about one. What do you mean by 'tax'? Is the shadowseer wasted in that formation?

Would be good to get some more feedback on the starweaver before I pump 25 quid on one only to find it sucks. It lasting until the end of turn one isn't a good sign! Instead of the starweaver could get the official troupe, shadowseer and deathjester and get the bonuses with that formation.

May well get a solitaire and a farseer and experiment with different setups (bare in mind I've only played the dark vengeance scenarios).

Honestly, the Starweaver getting popped on the first turn is expected and fine if it did its job and the Troupe within survived (which it sounds like it did). The Starweaver only costs 70 points, and it protects your investment in the much more expensive Troupe. Think what would have happened if the Carnifex shot the Troupe in the open instead. 12 twin linked shots, so about 9 hits, wounding on 2s. The Troupe would take about 7-8 wounds and probably be wiped out. The Starweaver prevented that from happening.

When I say the Shadowseer is a tax, I mean that it is costing you points that might not add much utility to the army. The Shadowseer is a "buff" unit, so it is best when it can be hidden in another unit (to protect it from small arms fire) and enhances that unit with psychic spells. The Solitary Path prohibits the Shadowseer from joining another unit, so it cannot fulfill its buffing role as effectively. However, the Shadowseer gets Shrouded and Stealth from the formation, so the other disadvantage (lack of bodies to protect it from small arms fire) is somewhat mitigated because the model can easily hide in terrain and rock a 2+ cover save. In addition, the Shadowseer has many offensive uses (particularly via its psychic powers, see the Phantasmancy discipline in general) and is a nasty close combat character with a +2 S fleshbane weapon and the usual Harlequin rules package (Flip Belt, Fleet, Grenades, Hit and Run and Furious Charge). Even though she can't join another unit, she can still charge into a combat that another unit is fighting in to lend a hand. So, she is something of a tax because you are not getting the most for your points, as you cannot really get much use out of her buffing ability, but she will have other uses.

Ah I see, thanks for clarifying. I think, like you say, the starweaver is worth the points investment so will run with it and see how it goes (plus it looks great, am going to enjoy painting it!)

To start with I'll be going unbound (only playing casually) then will go bound one we up the points to 1500.

Going forward just need to think...

1 solitaire (150 with grenade) + mastery lvl2 upgrade on the shadowseer (with the troupe)
Vs
1 farseer (105 with singing spear) + dire avenger squad (75 with exarch)

Tactically which would be better with the rest of the army? Must say my gut says the latter?!?