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Hello all,

I was wondering what would be the best way to run this list vs a Space Marine army? What do you perceive as my weak points versus my strong points?

1000pt

HQ-
Warboss w/ PK on Bike
Painboy on a Bike

Troops-
11 shoota boyz w/ PK nob in a Truck
11 slugga boyz w/ PK nob in a Truck
11 slugga boyz w/ PK nob in a Truck

Fast Attack-
Deffkopta w/ Rokkit
5 Warbikers

Heavy Support-
Battlewagon w/ 1x Rokkit Launcher and Kannon
9 Lootas + Mek w/ Mega Blaster

I think you need more Warbikes

More sluggas too. I'm not an ork player but space marines and I'll pop those trucks early and whittle 11 down quickly. I feel 11 is small?

It depends a lot on the type of Marine army your opponent likes to run.

Typically the answer against beakies is 'boyz before toyz'. Give him more targets than he has bullets. Not only does that have a huge psychological impact (You got HOW many models?!) but it takes him a lot of shooting to kill off your larger units.

Since you seem to want to go Kult uv Speed-ish instead I'd recommend the following:

1. Assume your Trukks will all die in the first turn of shooting. They're just there to give your trukk mobs a one-time speed boost. If you can hide them behind terrain during deployment, do it; then run them flat-out on their first move.

2. Your Trukk mobs will be especially fragile once they're dismounted. One turn of shooting from one tactical squad can easily render them combat ineffective.

3. Once your Trukk mobs dismount be sure to charge into close combat ASAP. You actually don't want to beat the guy you charge on the first close combat phase. Two phases of close combat will spare your fragile mobs from one round of enemy shooting.

4. Your Warbikes will become a primary target for his shooting, certainly by turn two. He should (rightly) see this as your most dangerous unit. This is especially true since your Boss and Painboy will (I assume) be with 'em.

5. If the Beakie shoots at your bikers on turn one it's actually good. Even though he's sure to cause casualties it will give your breakable Trukks a chance to get close and belch out their passengers.

6. If the Beakie runs Predator Destructors, Razorbacks or Whirlwinds you need to shoot them down with your Lootas, Battlewagon and Deffkoptas. These vehicles are dangerous to all your better units and vehicles (other than the Battlewagon), while the Annihilator variant is dangerous to everything but your infantry.

7. If he brings a Land Raider you've got problems. You don't have enough S8 shooting to glance him to death, so don't try. You can hurt him in close combat. But be aware of how he's armed. If he's got a Redeemer or a Crusader you kinda need to avoid him. Most other variants you may be able to ignore until late in the game because he can't dakka your infantry fast enough. On the other hand, any Landraider is a point sink. At your point level he'll have a tiny 'rest of the army' that you should be able to mangle before taking a breath and charging the 'raider.

8. Send your Bikes into close combat with his Devastators or Centurions or Thunderfire Cannon if you can. These are dangerous to your army, almost no matter what he's armed them with. You should be able to beat him in close combat as long as you can reach him, and it'll give the rest of your army time to close. You can even risk throwing your Kopta into close combat against the Thunderfire to stall his shooting.

9. If he's got Terminators he made a big mistake. In a game this size they're point sinks, and his army will struggle to do enough damage to put all your boyz down. You should be able to win a shooting contest with these guys, though you'll take a lot of casualties. If youy have to melee them (which you shouldn't with your speed) make sure to throw loads of klaws and choppas at him at once. Drown him in an ocean of dice.

10. Sternguard can be a real problem for you. If he drop-pods 'em in front of you though, feel free to munch him (and his pod) in close combat. I like it when Marines throw their Sternies away like that.

11. Big squads of jump pack beakies can ruin your day. They can match you for speed and are tooled to face you in close combat. Shoot them to pieces if you can, then charge the leftover bitz.

12. Dakka da Beakie Dreds. They've gotta go. They can beat anything you can throw at them in close combat.

13. As always, shoot the fighty ones and fight the shooty ones.

14. As always, only a sucker gets into an even fight. Make sure you outnumber him before you charge; by a little bit if you want the combat to last, and by a lot if you need to take down a nasty close combat opponent fast.

Always remember, if we die we die, it don't count as losin'. If we leg it it don't count neither; we can always come back fer annuver go, see!

My two teef.

well unless its actually 12 if you count the nob. he doesnt have points there, but i see some people list it out like 11 boyz and a nob. even though it is 12 boyz with a nob upgrade.

But yeah I would say some more boyz would be good. putting the lootas in the wagon is an interesting idea. yes it gives them some armor, but space marines have acces to a lot of melta and lascannons. So if they get that wagon to explode then those lootas are toast. and if you move the wagon then they all snapshoot.

This is excellent advice, thanks all and thanks Warboss Gorhack.

This list brings me right to 1000 so I don't have much wiggle room. Regarding the Lootas in the wagon, I was trying to make sure every unit was mobile, it being a kult of speed army and all.

My plan with the wagon is to get it into a good position on the first turn then camp it out and let the lootas do what they do best. In a way making it the main threat so the trucks and bikers can sweep in. Seems like it could work right?

I do indeed plan on running the Painboy and Warboss with the bikers.

Would I want to go first with this kind of army, or would going second be a better move?

eporterhouse wrote:
Would I want to go first with this kind of army, or would going second be a better move?

You'd want to go first.

Your trukks have no sort of protection and you want at least one turn of movement from them.

If you can find some points, Da Finkin' Kap would be good on your Warboss. Try and Infiltrate those trukk boyz!

 grendel083 wrote:

eporterhouse wrote:
Would I want to go first with this kind of army, or would going second be a better move?

You'd want to go first.

Your trukks have no sort of protection and you want at least one turn of movement from them.

If you can find some points, Da Finkin' Kap would be good on your Warboss. Try and Infiltrate those trukk boyz!

I also heard that you can infiltrate your Trukk boyz while they're INSIDE of their transports... I don't see it, but it might work that way.

Hi mate. My thoughts:

1) Make the trukk boyz sluggas rather than shootas and give them 'eavy armour if the adjustments below allow for it. Small boyz mobs (and these are small by Ork standards) can struggle against marine squads of similar size otherwise, even in melee.

2) Stick the shootas in the wagon with a couple of big shootas and a reinforced ram on the wagon itself.

3) Lose the lootas, at least for this game. As others have said, it's boyz boyz boyz against beakies. Overwhelm his power armour with more shots and choppa hits than he can realistically save against.

4) Always give your warboss da lukky stikk. Always always always. It's the only thing in our codex that can really be called cheesy.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

eporterhouse wrote:
Would I want to go first with this kind of army, or would going second be a better move?

You'd want to go first.

Your trukks have no sort of protection and you want at least one turn of movement from them.

If you can find some points, Da Finkin' Kap would be good on your Warboss. Try and Infiltrate those trukk boyz!

I also heard that you can infiltrate your Trukk boyz while they're INSIDE of their transports... I don't see it, but it might work that way.

I don't think that works. If I'm not mistaken, it works similar to deep strike, where if the dudes inside can DS, the vehicle CAN'T. But if the vehicle can DS, the guys inside can.

It's basically why the Blitz Brigade got Scout, not the units inside. If the vehicle can do it, so can the passengers. Not the other way around.

Melevolence wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

eporterhouse wrote:
Would I want to go first with this kind of army, or would going second be a better move?

You'd want to go first.

Your trukks have no sort of protection and you want at least one turn of movement from them.

If you can find some points, Da Finkin' Kap would be good on your Warboss. Try and Infiltrate those trukk boyz!

I also heard that you can infiltrate your Trukk boyz while they're INSIDE of their transports... I don't see it, but it might work that way.

I don't think that works. If I'm not mistaken, it works similar to deep strike, where if the dudes inside can DS, the vehicle CAN'T. But if the vehicle can DS, the guys inside can.

It's basically why the Blitz Brigade got Scout, not the units inside. If the vehicle can do it, so can the passengers. Not the other way around.

That's what I thought. I should probably just ask in YMDC if it ever comes up again. I don't think it works, I was just listing it as a possibility as some credible people on Dakka say it works.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

eporterhouse wrote:
Would I want to go first with this kind of army, or would going second be a better move?

You'd want to go first.

Your trukks have no sort of protection and you want at least one turn of movement from them.

If you can find some points, Da Finkin' Kap would be good on your Warboss. Try and Infiltrate those trukk boyz!

I also heard that you can infiltrate your Trukk boyz while they're INSIDE of their transports... I don't see it, but it might work that way.

I don't think that works. If I'm not mistaken, it works similar to deep strike, where if the dudes inside can DS, the vehicle CAN'T. But if the vehicle can DS, the guys inside can.

It's basically why the Blitz Brigade got Scout, not the units inside. If the vehicle can do it, so can the passengers. Not the other way around.

That's what I thought. I should probably just ask in YMDC if it ever comes up again. I don't think it works, I was just listing it as a possibility as some credible people on Dakka say it works.

Yes you absolutely can. It's in the Infiltrate rules.

You give Infiltrate to a non-vehicle unit (the Boyz) as per the Warlord Trait. Infiltrate then allows them to take their Dedicated Transport along with them.

Note this only works with Dedicated Transports, not any transport.

From what I've learned I can tell you: bring 10 Lootas and 20 boyz with PK BP Nob in a Battlewagon. Also I recommend taking 10 bikers with PK BP Warboss and a Painboy. If he has Devastators - shoot them to bits with Lootas, then move with your BW. Bikers are a jack-of-all-trades. They are durable as f*ck, plus Painboy makes them even tougher. One thing you should know - THEY ARE NOT PURE MELEE UNIT!!! 10 bikers provide 30 S5 TL shots which can obliterate anything. Move them to target, unload, clean up the mess with Warboss.

Also consider taking 1-2 Deffkoptas. These folks make very good objective takers. They can hold backfield objectives, rush to distant ones - and they are tough enough and are easy to hide behind terrain.