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The only reason this is a stupid argument is your responses to it. We're not giving exact numbers because we don't know exact numbers. But going by what is written, he's Primarch sized. You're giving an exact number, but with nothing to back it up. So actually your argument is weaker even though you stated numbers. Why is 10 feet so ridiculous? Primarchs are ~ 10 feet. He's always pictured as Primarch sized. He's always written to be big, as big as the Primarchs. Ignoring any evidence doesn't make your argument stronger. And using scientific terminology doesn't equate to 'acting as though you're medical proffesionals...'

You're whole argument is based on the fact that you don't think the Emperor would be bigger than a man (humble is not a word that correlates with the Emperor btw). But you're ignoring anything contrary to that. By all means think what you want but when your argument is opinion and we're using examples from the books/art, then maybe your argument isn't the strongest. Definitely not enough to take the know-it-all cocksure attitude your posts have.

tgjensen wrote:
Well the Golden Throne was built to fit him, so since he presumably still fits he's probably around the same size as when he was alive. Just maybe shrivelled up a bit.

It was also intended that Magnus was right take over as the one on the golden throne, who is also to my knowledge at least, the only other "human" being capable of changing his size.

As for his size in his current form, the below picture shows a what we can assume to be regular human skull in the right arm rest. The emperors skulls about 1.5 to 2 times the size of this, so I'd wager that he's still primarch size. I guess that makes sense too, since he was of similar height to Sanguinius and Horus in the art work that I know of. It's reasonable to presume that his body retained that size / form after being struck down.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
As far as the argument about scale goes, we know marines are 7 (or 8?) feet tall thanks to the scale drawing at gwhq. The primarchs are all taller than their sons, so 10 foot would be a good estimation. Look at the marine bodies on fulgrims base - we know they're 7 foot tall, and fulgrim can safely be estimated to have an extra 2 or 3 feet on them.

The custodian shown in another picture here, who are I believe described to be "large, even by space marine standards" shows the Emperor being a head taller than him, so again 10 foot comes in to my mind as a good estimation.

It's an interesting topic, and one that I'd like to continue contributing to as I find further supporting info.

 ImAGeek wrote:
The only reason this is a stupid argument is your responses to it. We're not giving exact numbers because we don't know exact numbers. But going by what is written, he's Primarch sized. You're giving an exact number, but with nothing to back it up. So actually your argument is weaker even though you stated numbers. Why is 10 feet so ridiculous? Primarchs are ~ 10 feet. He's always pictured as Primarch sized. He's always written to be big, as big as the Primarchs. Ignoring any evidence doesn't make your argument stronger. And using scientific terminology doesn't equate to 'acting as though you're medical proffesionals...'

You're whole argument is based on the fact that you don't think the Emperor would be bigger than a man (humble is not a word that correlates with the Emperor btw). But you're ignoring anything contrary to that. By all means think what you want but when your argument is opinion and we're using examples from the books/art, then maybe your argument isn't the strongest. Definitely not enough to take the know-it-all cocksure attitude your posts have.

whooo... take it down a bit there cowboy.

I got the balls to say he is man size so he is between 5 and 7 feet. You all are just flicking mud and say he is not, but he is a giant. WTF is that means. Or He is Primach size... what is that too? IF GW comes right out on CNN and said he is 8 feet... you all would claim... see see... I told you.. he is Primach or a Giant because he is 8 feet.

So now you are saying for the first time I think.. he is 10 feet. I wouldn't use 10 feet giant size. Ogryn or Ogres maybe.. but giant?

Who are you all saying he is this size? The 7 of you here telling me? Because of art picture in gaming books? You want me to bring other art works that is so BS in the games? Lets look at WHFB cover boxes... many times those dragons or heroes are doing HEROIC POSE... it is not to scale. So forget about your heroic poses ... it is not to scale. I never base anything from art work. It is nice and cool to look at and that is all.
Those art work is useless in this argument because I know E is as big as Primach. I just disagree that he will be that size when he is on the thrones.

I always assume by reading about E that he didn't make himself big all the time. He prefer to be around human size. The 7 of you can claim all you want.. in the end it is an PO.. not facts what size is he on the thrones.

You know your claiming of 10 feet is just as flawed or as right as me... because this other guy stated that the thrones was built for Magus and he was a true giant... like 15 feet or more. So what do you say to that. Only one can be right. So is it me 6 feet. Or you 10feet. Or that guy who claim that it was Magus size of 15 plus... we all can't be right... why do you make your 10 feet only? Seems small.

I can throw every argument at you that you did to me if my position was the 15 feet position.

My point is... it is subjective so YOU don't act like you are so cocksure with your attitude and point fingers at others when you are just as cocksure yourself.

fething hypocrite.

What about this picture... what does it proof? nothing. it is just a picture.

Reported. There's no need to respond like that. I wasn't attacking you, just the tone of your posts.

Yes I said your tone was cocksure. Which it has been consistently in every one of your posts, not just here, in every thread.

ENOUGH.

Rule #1.

Debate the point, not the poster, etc. etc.

The ultimate point is that we know that Magnus, and we are under the impression that the Emperor, can vary their height. Pretty sure I remember reading that Magnus grew to the height of an eldar titan to take 2 on simultaneously, it stands to reason that the Emperor - the reincarnation of 8000BC's entire population of shamans (wiki40k) would have that same power, which he imbued in to magnus.

So the debate of is he 6', 10' or 15' is null and void, and the art work, the fluff and the fiction all provide one fact - he can change his height at will.

As for the OP's question, I stand by original theory that he stayed the same height, which I estimate to be 10' tall, after being struck down, continuing on to his interment in to the golden throne. Of course, as his bones become brittle, his skeleton would sag and consequently give the impression of a decline in size, especially over 10000 years, though that's something that you'd only really be able to use if you were building a diorama or something to help justify making a smaller model or whatever.

 david choe wrote:

I always assume by reading about E that he didn't make himself big all the time. He prefer to be around human size.

The fluff suggests that it's the other way around.

One of the Horus Heresy short story compilations has a story where the Emperor visits the last church on earth. He appears to the priest as a normal sized man, but reveals his 'true' self later.

There's a mention in that story of the Emperor sitting down on a chair, and the priest being surprised that the chair seems to be straining under his weight, despite him looking like a normal man... The suggestion being that the normal sized man is the illusion, and he's actually considerably larger.

That then raises the question of whether or not his shifts in size and appearance are illusions or actual physical changes.

If it's an illusion, and he's actually 10 feet tall and weighs 1000 pounds, then someone would have noticed that at any point in his nearly 40,000 years of life. I mean, if you're actually 10 feet tall and 3 and 1/2 feet wide, but are appearing to be 5 foot 6 and 180, then the marketplace of Damascus in 280 AD is not going to be able to hide that fact.

He's a supremely powerful psyker. People only notice him if he wants them to.

 insaniak wrote:

 david choe wrote:

I always assume by reading about E that he didn't make himself big all the time. He prefer to be around human size.

The fluff suggests that it's the other way around.

One of the Horus Heresy short story compilations has a story where the Emperor visits the last church on earth. He appears to the priest as a normal sized man, but reveals his 'true' self later.

There's a mention in that story of the Emperor sitting down on a chair, and the priest being surprised that the chair seems to be straining under his weight, despite him looking like a normal man... The suggestion being that the normal sized man is the illusion, and he's actually considerably larger.

Why are you nit picking his life event for your version of the corpse. What about the 10,000 years that he walked the earth from 8,000 BC to at least 2,000 AD? He was around as normal man. I think he was around human size way after the Techno barbarians days... anyway... he was a scientist, a peace maker, a teacher, and many many other things beside a warrior.

When he died ... he wanted to be remember as a man for man to look up. Not some warrior god that the Imperial made him out to be.

 david choe wrote:
Why are you nit picking his life event for your version of the corpse.

I'm not 'nit picking'... I'm pointing out a piece of evidence in the fluff that backs up the idea that he's bigger than a normal man, and the normal sized guy he sometimes appears as is just an illusion.

What about the 10,000 years that he walked the earth from 8,000 BC to at least 2,000 AD? He was around as normal man.

Was he? What are you basing that on?

Because so far as I'm aware, GW have never really gone into any detail on anything before the Unification Wars, other than a very brief summary of the Emperor's creation... which doesn't mention his height.

When he died ... he wanted to be remember as a man for man to look up. Not some warrior god that the Imperial made him out to be.

Again, what are you basing that on?

And what does his size have to do with any of that? Someone who is 12 feet tall is sort of by very definition someone that other men are going to 'look up to'...

"I'm not 'nit picking'... I'm pointing out a piece of evidence in the fluff that backs up the idea that he's bigger than a normal man, and the normal sized guy he sometimes appears as is just an illusion.”

Didn’t I say that he was large and most of the time he was man size? So I didn’t say he was never a giant. So no.. the fluff is not in disagreement with me… it validate my position. He is man size and sometime he is giant size or Primach size. If you must point it out.. go point it out on somebody who is in disagreement with you.

"Because so far as I'm aware, GW have never really gone into any detail on anything before the Unification Wars, other than a very brief summary of the Emperor's creation... which doesn't mention his height.”

Read Rouge traitor book.. he has been around since 8,000 BC. He was a move and shaker of history. I think GW even hinted that he might even be Jesus. I think he was a saint (forgot his name) that slayed a dragon… which is the dragon from Mars.. but anyway… He was many many things in the history of man… and help mankind to advance their civilization and technology. I think you know this.
So you want me to prove a negative? Being 10feet is a negative statement. I can’t proof that in the history for over 10,000 years that he was around earth not being a 10ft man, but a normal man so he would blend with others. GW would have to come right out and said E was walking around Science dpt at MIT during 1985 as a 10 ft tall man. I mean.. you are the guy that need to proof this crazy theory that E was walking around earth since 8,000BC as a 10 foot tall man Not I.

And what does his size have to do with any of that? Someone who is 12 feet tall is sort of by very definition someone that other men are going to 'look up to'...

This last part is my PO just like your PO is E as 12 ft tall because his last form in combat was that size. His last size was 12 so he choose to stays as 12. You choose the end of his life as his final form.

I choose his beginning of man size as his final form. It is two opposite PO of Alpha and Omega of a man’s life. I choose his beginning.

Why did he choose his last form? You should explain to me.

My reason for his final form is because he is no longer taking Warrior role but a more humanity guiding role… a teacher and a philosopher role. He didn’t want to be worship as a god, but he wanted people to listen to his teaching. He is like Lord Buddha in a way. Why this 6 ft and not 12ft? Because man will listen to a person who is more like them than a Hydra, Great Unclean one, or a Giant 12 foot tall man. He wanted man to follow his teaching as a man teaching another man… not a god telling man what to do or be worshiped on. Imperial made him a god… it wasn’t want he wanted.

So yeah… 6 foot man fit the bill better than 12foot man.

Also.. 40K has a lot of symbolism and barrow a lot from Christianity….
In Christianity.. God made Jesus and he is God in human form….HUMAN .. he could have made himself as a Demon, dragons, or a GIANT… he choose Jesus as a humble man. This is because he knew that it would be more effective to teach the world as a man God than a scary crazy giant God. One of the main reason Christianity is the most popular religion is because people do not worship Crazy deities like 20ft tall Zues with lighting bolt or other Pagan gods with bull head and such….

So yes, I think my PO made a hell lot of sense about 6 ft man on golden thrones than a 12 foot man god on a golden thrones. Your Emperor god on the thrones is like Xerxes from 300 movie.. the golden 12 foot tall man god. I don't think E wanted to be remember that way.

 david choe wrote:
Didn’t I say that he was large and most of the time he was man size? So I didn’t say he was never a giant. So no.. the fluff is not in disagreement with me… it validate my position. He is man size and sometime he is giant size or Primach size. If you must point it out.. go point it out on somebody who is in disagreement with you.

You appear to have misunderstood the point. I wasn't saying that he's sometimes man-sized and sometimes bigger. I was saying that the current fluff suggests that he's actually bigger, and just sometimes appears regular man-sized.

...you are the guy that need to proof this crazy theory that E was walking around earth since 8,000BC as a 10 foot tall man Not I.

Given that he can appear however he wants to look, what exactly is crazy about that theory?

You choose the end of his life as his final form.

Do I? Where did I do that?

Why did he choose his last form? You should explain to me.

I don't recall mentioning him as choosing any form.

Again, the Horus Heresy books seem to be leaning far more towards his differences of appearance being a matter of illusion rather than actual changes. So he chooses how big he appears, not how big he is.

My reason for his final form is because he is no longer taking Warrior role but a more humanity guiding role… a teacher and a philosopher role.

And again, what are you basing that on? Is there fluff somewhere that suggests that this is what he wanted?


Because nothing in the stuff I've read so far paints the Emperor as anything like the benevolent 'buddha' that you're making him out to be. He was a despot and a tyrant, who thought nothing of wiping out entire civilisations simply because they refused to do things his way.

"You appear to have misunderstood the point. I wasn't saying that he's sometimes man-sized and sometimes bigger. I was saying that the current fluff suggests that he's actually bigger, and just sometimes appears regular man-sized.”

OK…. so the point is now he is actually always a big 12 ft man and create an illusion as 6ft man. So maybe you are right? I mean… who cares? I said he is man side because he cast a spell to make him look like he is man size..the only person that know he is really 12 ft is he himself and the rest of us out of universe….So you want to take the out of universe context and argue with me as the in universe context that he was man size for 10,000 years but it was an illusion and his flesh is really 12 ft tall. I don’t buy it, but I don’t really care. As somebody said.. how would he fit in a car or walk into a wooden hut or ride a horses? It would make better sense if he was actually man size when he wanted to be or true giant sizes when he wanted to be. This fluff is stupid and full of loop holes.

...you are the guy that need to proof this crazy theory that E was walking around earth since 8,000BC as a 10 foot tall man Not I.

"Given that he can appear however he wants to look, what exactly is crazy about that theory?”

Again, you hound on me and then agree with me that he is man size… ahhh didn’t I said he was man size? OK… next question...

You choose the end of his life as his final form.

"Do I? Where did I do that?”


NOPE you didn’t but you one of those people who disagree with others but have no position of there own. So you are not challenging me that he is man size as a corpse. But you have no position of what size it should be… just not man size. mmmm can your position be Hobbit size? I don’t ‘know? What other size can there be if it is not man and not hobbit? …. I don’t know.

Why did he choose his last form? You should explain to me.

"I don't recall mentioning him as choosing any form. “

No you didn’t … again.. back to my top comment… with hobbit or man or giant… but you pick none… yet disagree with me about man size. That is a coward stance in a debate… give no opinion or solution, but disagree to the teeth.


"Again, the Horus Heresy books seem to be leaning far more towards his differences of appearance being a matter of illusion rather than actual changes. So he chooses how big he appears, not how big he is.”

OK… so again… what does that mean to you? getting a bit tire of cat and mouse chase.

My reason for his final form is because he is no longer taking Warrior role but a more humanity guiding role… a teacher and a philosopher role.

"And again, what are you basing that on? Is there fluff somewhere that suggests that this is what he wanted?"


"Because nothing in the stuff I've read so far paints the Emperor as anything like the benevolent 'buddha' that you're making him out to be. He was a despot and a tyrant, who thought nothing of wiping out entire civilisations simply because they refused to do things his way.

 david choe wrote:

OK…. so the point is now he is actually always a big 12 ft man and create an illusion as 6ft man. So maybe you are right? I mean… who cares?

Given that it's the topic under discussion, his actual size is kind of relevant...

I believe it was discussed at one of the BL events that during the final battle Horus saw the Emperors true form which was that of a shriveled old man and that the Emperor shown to all was a projection of what everyone thought the Emperor should look like. Big, strong, glorious, a person that could lead the masses. If his true form is that of a wizened old man, could the people of the Imperium put their faith in someone that seemed so frail.

It was only a discussion at the time so whether or not they decide to have this as his form we will have to wait and see. But having him be 10ft, 5ft or 20ft, each is as likely as the other as we just don't know.

However, that could be argued that horus was seeing what the gods of chaos wanted him to see, which was a frail figurehead.

 Doctadeth wrote:
However, that could be argued that horus was seeing what the gods of chaos wanted him to see, which was a frail figurehead.

There are many reasons why it might not be true, which is why I said it was just a discussion at the time and that he could be any size as we don't know.

It's a bit hard to know when he can change his size and appearance.

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
So if you are going to ignore the flaws in your arguments, I'm just going to point you to my earlier statement and your response:

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Man people...read the question by the OT please.

HE is Talking aBout the dead body on the golden throne in 40,000! Stop talking about when he was alive.....!

The truth is nobody knows, because we just assume it is average human size mummy.....because of art work and our common sense of what a mummy size is.

Since GW never mentioned it....we have to assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy.

But why normal human-sized? It's not like we cannot mummify 10 feet human, since the basic procedure of producing a mummy (human) is not affect by the size of the carcass, as long as it is human. Also the emperor is probably not a mummy, just dried up flesh and bones. Besides, the Golden Throne is actually some very ancient construct whose size is unknown. So we have no reference for size, what-so-ever. There is no reason to just "assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy."

First off, he is a human...it is understood that anything abnormal that is out of human scale,...must be stated by the writer of the story. Like he is a 20ft tall corpse or he had 4 arms, etc... None was written..so we assume normal.

No, you didn't say man size, you said normal mummy size. It should be clear to you, even if the Emperor was in your scale of "normal human/mummy size", he is still of am abnormal height for a human from the images depicted. Second, a mythical giant is perhaps over 20 feet, but a real-life giant is around 6 - 9 feet. I assure you gigantism is an abnormal condition.

LOL, yeah I read it.. and the point is???
I told you normal mummy size is man size.. I don't know what the mummy size is ... looks like about 5-7 ft.
This is the stupidest argument I ever been in. You never state your numbers just words of giant. I even mention numbers and I get pick apart by logic based on opinion. I don't care if medical giantism is 7 -10 and that is what everybody is talking about...please.. that is silly. None of your are medical profession and we are talking about subject X where we all have medical degree and we are using medical terminology to describe heights.

I told you ... at first I assume man range 6 - 10 feet... didn't care really.

Then NOW... because so many of you think he should be larger than man.. which I disagree what the E would do....he would be humble and be only 6.

Your willful ignorance is giving me cancer. They have given you a good deal of evidence already, just accept that you're wrong and keep your Emperor in your headcanon.

 dusara217 wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
So if you are going to ignore the flaws in your arguments, I'm just going to point you to my earlier statement and your response:

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Man people...read the question by the OT please.

HE is Talking aBout the dead body on the golden throne in 40,000! Stop talking about when he was alive.....!

The truth is nobody knows, because we just assume it is average human size mummy.....because of art work and our common sense of what a mummy size is.

Since GW never mentioned it....we have to assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy.

But why normal human-sized? It's not like we cannot mummify 10 feet human, since the basic procedure of producing a mummy (human) is not affect by the size of the carcass, as long as it is human. Also the emperor is probably not a mummy, just dried up flesh and bones. Besides, the Golden Throne is actually some very ancient construct whose size is unknown. So we have no reference for size, what-so-ever. There is no reason to just "assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy."

First off, he is a human...it is understood that anything abnormal that is out of human scale,...must be stated by the writer of the story. Like he is a 20ft tall corpse or he had 4 arms, etc... None was written..so we assume normal.

No, you didn't say man size, you said normal mummy size. It should be clear to you, even if the Emperor was in your scale of "normal human/mummy size", he is still of am abnormal height for a human from the images depicted. Second, a mythical giant is perhaps over 20 feet, but a real-life giant is around 6 - 9 feet. I assure you gigantism is an abnormal condition.

LOL, yeah I read it.. and the point is???
I told you normal mummy size is man size.. I don't know what the mummy size is ... looks like about 5-7 ft.
This is the stupidest argument I ever been in. You never state your numbers just words of giant. I even mention numbers and I get pick apart by logic based on opinion. I don't care if medical giantism is 7 -10 and that is what everybody is talking about...please.. that is silly. None of your are medical profession and we are talking about subject X where we all have medical degree and we are using medical terminology to describe heights.

I told you ... at first I assume man range 6 - 10 feet... didn't care really.

Then NOW... because so many of you think he should be larger than man.. which I disagree what the E would do....he would be humble and be only 6.

Your willful ignorance is giving me cancer. They have given you a good deal of evidence already, just accept that you're wrong and keep your Emperor in your headcanon.

Watch who you calling ignorant, boy. I also told you why he is man size and all of this is PO. What are you, nine....do you not get this...it is like if you are arguing with me about Jesus eye color.

The seven of you who gave me evidence is my omega theory....E choose his last size (giant 10ft) because it was his last form is really dumb. He can be any size he want....and he choose this one because it was his last...you analyze that a bit.

I already told you my alpha theory ....which is he choose his first size form (normal man 6ft) from the beginning part of his life in the 8000 BC and I gave reasons to why....not because it was his last form as a giant....and no reason.

So...stop with your idiotic smart ass comment and debate the points if you have one.

... the Emperor was many things. A man of peace, however, was certainly not one of them.

Mankind is inherently violent and petty. The Emperor had seen enough of us to know that.

The Emperor is the entirety of Mankind, personified. He believed, as an expansionist imperialist, that it was the manifest destiny of Mankind to rule the stars unopposed. That means "no Xenos allowed". What's the best way to ensure that your kingdom lasts forever? Wipe out all traces of any external threat, and then ensure that no internal threat is allowed to gain a foothold. Ideally, do both at the same time.

This thread is why we can't have nice things.