Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As per the title - a you it of 10 necron warriors embarked on a ghost ark and the ark is within 6" of a stalker - does the unit get the benefit?

No, the unit is not on the table, so it doesn't "exist", unless otherwise stated.

BRB, on Embarking, wrote:If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is measured to or from the vehicle's hull.

I think you would be able to get the extra ballistic skill if your transport is within 6''.

I would agree with Mallich there.

mallich is correct the embarked unit gains the bonus

Can you cite why and page reference?

BrB page 80 wrote:
If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is measured to or from the vehicle's hull.

Cool - so nova powers and prescience could also affect them?

Novas can not as they are a witchfire and witch fires follow the rules for shooting and you can not target a unit in a transport for a shooting attack unless told otherwise.


As for prescience, if the psyker is in the transport it can not due to the rules on pg 82. In addition, psychic power can not target powers embarked on a transport (pg 82)

So where is the permission for the aura to affect passengers? This came up at a tourney yesterday and we rolled off for it as the TO could not find a clear rule either way.

The stalkers rules don't give permission to affect embarked units

When a unit fires you need to check whether the unit is within 6" of the stalker right?

So if the unit is embarked can we measure to see if it is within 6" of the stalker? Is there anything that stops the stalker from working on an embarked unit?

Those are the only 2 questions that matter. Page 80 gives us the answer to the first question. Do you have any denial of that permission because I can't find any, therefore it works. Unlike say shooting attacks which have specific denial of that permission (page 82). So it is perfectly clear that this works. Show the TO page 80 for future reference.

I don't need to show you can't - like all games its permissive - you need to prove you can.

That said - I get your point - thanks for the help with this one!

I don't understand why people think that a unit embarked on a vehicle doesn't exist until they are put on the board itself. If my unit can get hit by flamers then it should be able to benefit from buffs :-P

 Massaen wrote:
I don't need to show you can't - like all games its permissive - you need to prove you can.

That said - I get your point - thanks for the help with this one!

I have shown permission for a unit to receive the bonus if within 6". I have shown that the embarked unit is within 6". You do have to show denial of that permission or that permission makes this work. That is how a permissive ruleset works. The rule doesn't have to specifically call out embarked units anymore than it does unembarked units, or units consisting of exactly 7 models or units painted red or that it works on Tuesdays. It works and it works for all units within 6" (meeting its criteria) unless you can prove it doesn't.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
I don't understand why people think that a unit embarked on a vehicle doesn't exist until they are put on the board itself. If my unit can get hit by flamers then it should be able to benefit from buffs :-P

Hehe, true. Dark Eldar payers are with you as well on that one

Stroggified wrote:
Novas can not as they are a witchfire and witch fires follow the rules for shooting and you can not target a unit in a transport for a shooting attack unless told otherwise.


As for prescience, if the psyker is in the transport it can not due to the rules on pg 82. In addition, psychic power can not target powers embarked on a transport (pg 82)

not true, there is no restriction on being able to target models embarked in a transport.

Usually you do not have LoS to them, however any weapon/effect that ignores line of sight by the rules can target models in a transport.

if you believe that quote lets you measure to/from units in a transport, then novas hit units in a transport as they do not require LoS.

Did you read page 82?

brb pg 82 wrote: Psychic powers cannot target units that are embarked on a Transport.

blaktoof wrote:

Stroggified wrote:
Novas can not as they are a witchfire and witch fires follow the rules for shooting and you can not target a unit in a transport for a shooting attack unless told otherwise.


As for prescience, if the psyker is in the transport it can not due to the rules on pg 82. In addition, psychic power can not target powers embarked on a transport (pg 82)

not true, there is no restriction on being able to target models embarked in a transport.

Usually you do not have LoS to them, however any weapon/effect that ignores line of sight by the rules can target models in a transport.

if you believe that quote lets you measure to/from units in a transport, then novas hit units in a transport as they do not require LoS.

the bold is just wrong, I suggest rereading witchfires and novas. In addition, there is explicit denial of targeting of psychic power on units in transports on page 82 under Psychic powers and transports. there is no grey area it directly states units embarked in transports can not be targeted by psychic powers.

It goes like this,is the unit embarked in a transport? If yes then they can not be targeted by psychic powers as per the rules on pg 82 of the large rule book. (not sure the page in the small)

True.

However any weapon with ignores line of sight can still affect embarked units.

blaktoof wrote:
True.

However any weapon with ignores line of sight can still affect embarked units.

So by this logic barrage weapons can hit units in transports? How would you even do wound allocation?

blaktoof wrote:
True.

However any weapon with ignores line of sight can still affect embarked units.

Ignore LoS weapons don't work RaW at all so require RaI to function it is unsurprising that they result in wierd interactions with other rules.

Stroggified wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
True.

However any weapon with ignores line of sight can still affect embarked units.

So by this logic barrage weapons can hit units in transports? How would you even do wound allocation?

if we accept that the passage under embarked passengers is telling us that things have blanket permission to measure to/from embarked we have to accept that the opposing player can measure to embarked units for things. There is no actual restriction called out as for shooting at embarked models, normally the inability to draw LoS prevents this. However weapons/attacks that do not require LoS would not be stopped at that point.

There is also the interpretation, which is just as equally RAW that the passage under embarked units tells you how to measure to an embarked unit if you have permission to do so form an ability/wargear that says you may use it while embarked or on embarked units. As it states "if you need to.." which shows you need prior permission somewhere to "need to". Of course the interpretation that I need to shoot the models in your transport so I am measuring to them with my lobbas is equally as valid as saying I need to use the banner of devestation form my embarked units so I measure to the transport. as the rule in question has no restriction on when it can be done, or by whom.

Isn't a lobba a blast weapon?

barrage.

Which uses the blast template. How many models are you counting under the template?

Gravmyr wrote:
Which uses the blast template. How many models are you counting under the template?

The transport, and Zero embarked models are under the marker.

"If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is measured to or from the vehicle's hull."

Doesn't this solve all the questions, especially the secondary question raised about shooting?

Can't draw LoS, and can't count more than 1 vehicle under a blast because the models aren't on the model...