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So my friend has been scouring the internet watching battle reports and reading forums to devise the cheesiest ummm I mean most competitive Necron list since the new book dropped. He played me yesterday using the new reclamation/decurion (whatever improves your RP to 4+) formation and rofl stomped me at 1500 pts.

The list he presented was as follows: 3 tomb blades, 10 warriors footslogging, 5 immortals with teslas, 5 scarabs, a spyder, 6 wraiths, 2 Ghost arcs with 10 warriors in each, CCB, 14 flayed ones. I'm not even sure if he was running the formation correctly as we mainly play fantasy and aren't really that familiar with the new 7th edition rules. Anyways anyone have any ideas on how to stop this list using CSM with or without daemon allies. I have pretty much every single unit in the CSM codex and also have a large CD army.

All da Instant death weapons you can is always helpful.

Do your best to take out the ghost arks as fast as possibile to knock out the warriors ability to come back harder

Chuck something fearless and with many wounds to hold up the wraiths as you are likely not going to kill them all

Use Blast Weapons to feth up the CCB

Sweet thanks for the advice...How do blast weapons feth up the CCB? I'm not that familiar with chariot rules in 40k.

 nathan2004 wrote:
Sweet thanks for the advice...How do blast weapons feth up the CCB? I'm not that familiar with chariot rules in 40k.

So Chariots are silly in that on regular shooting, the hits can be allocated to the lord or the vehicle

So most people will chuck the low Sub ST7 hits on the chariots to waste them, and anything else tank on the lord.

But blasts and templates must be allocated to the chariot. so that haywire one that black legion gets would work very well (besides the jink) i can see the noise marine blast master being overall useful agaisnt them. (since ST8 ap 3 will wreck 90% of troops and deny them a full RP)

Necrons (specifically decurion) are weak to obsec. Reserve your troops and have them come in late game. Daemon summoning should also effectively tie up Necrons in combat for eternity. While you probably won't win, neither will they and you can keep bringing more units in. Hell turkeys are great as Necrons typically have pretty poopy AA, and the reaper auto cannon, at str 8 ap 4 (IIRC) works to double out the troops, worsening their RP to 5+ instead of 4+, as well as denying their armor save.

CSM doesn't have a whole lot of tools to deal with them sans be'laker, but if you bring a daemons army with a deathstar or two they are going to struggle.

I know it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm gonna say bezerkers in rhinos. Necrons weak point right now is close combat, RP doesn't mean anything if you sweep them in close combat. So bezerkers and Nurgle chaos spawn. get in close and then overrun them

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
I know it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm gonna say bezerkers in rhinos. Necrons weak point right now is close combat, RP doesn't mean anything if you sweep them in close combat. So bezerkers and Nurgle chaos spawn. get in close and then overrun them

It is infact not there weakness. in the sense that you need to deal a significant amount of wounds to even force a ld check for them to fail to sweep and on that you also needa make sure you dont get swamped by scarabs or worse wraiths.

Tieing them up with things like spawn then going for the objective win is the best way to play against an ultra defensive army.

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
I know it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm gonna say bezerkers in rhinos. Necrons weak point right now is close combat, RP doesn't mean anything if you sweep them in close combat. So bezerkers and Nurgle chaos spawn. get in close and then overrun them

Why do you say that? RP now functions as FnP and so does work against them getting swept. ?

'Zerks can also be Obsec though, so getting them invovled in a combat while standing on an objective is win, since you're claiming without being able to be shot, you're punching faces like you want to be and you can sweep without risk of being swept. It's also a reason to actually buy chain axes, since suddenly there is an enemy that you need to deny their 4+ armour save.

Granted warriors will ignore 1/2 of your wounds due to RP, but then, you can put out a lot of wounds and they shouldn't manage much in return.

Flying circus will give that list trouble as well, since he doesn't have a single flyer. Nurgle DP's should work since he has no way to ignore cover outside of melee. Black mace on CSM DP will be win. As already mentioned, 'Drakes will be win, though I'd be looking at taking the baledrake with that many ground units and a pair of oppen topped transports (no escape rule for the d6 hits if the template even touches the transport). Wounding on 2's with no armour is still good, even if they do get their 4+++. Remember it has soul blaze.

Summoning, as already mentioned, should be pretty handy since he's got no psychers, so you can dominate the psychic phase and pop out units that he must deal with.

Telepathy is a winner, as shrouding will be handy against their shooting for cultists or FMC's, invis is invis, terrify since they're not fearless and Ld9 is not a certain thing, while dominate can be handy against wraiths and flayed ones. Shriek is often handy, even against Ld 10. Mental fortidude also provides some protection if you manage to fluff one of your morale checks.

I still think you're going to be in trouble though.

RP works like FNP yes, but I was referring to after all wounds are dealt and you have to roll leadership for combat. Zerkers are fearless so if they win, they win, but if they lose they still win because they tie up the unit until they have all been eliminated. If necrons lose combat on the other hand, chance are they will get swept due to their crappy Int. I'd send zerkers against just about anything that necrons can offer, especially wraiths now that they have lost rending (I don't know why everyone thought they got better, I thought they were better with rending). The only exception would be any c'tans due to their suicide bomb death scream thing they have now. For them, nurgle spawn.

Wraiths still have rending

 nathan2004 wrote:
Wraiths still have rending

Yerp

And they did get a lot better. But I love beserkers so go for it. Outside of full wraithwing, you'll probably be ok

Alcibiades wrote:

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
I know it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm gonna say bezerkers in rhinos. Necrons weak point right now is close combat, RP doesn't mean anything if you sweep them in close combat. So bezerkers and Nurgle chaos spawn. get in close and then overrun them

Why do you say that? RP now functions as FnP and so does work against them getting swept. ?

FNP doesn't prevent sweeping advances.

Melevolence wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
I know it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm gonna say bezerkers in rhinos. Necrons weak point right now is close combat, RP doesn't mean anything if you sweep them in close combat. So bezerkers and Nurgle chaos spawn. get in close and then overrun them

Why do you say that? RP now functions as FnP and so does work against them getting swept. ?

FNP doesn't prevent sweeping advances.

It just make it harder than before (since before it was counted at the end of phase)

Melevolence wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
I know it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm gonna say bezerkers in rhinos. Necrons weak point right now is close combat, RP doesn't mean anything if you sweep them in close combat. So bezerkers and Nurgle chaos spawn. get in close and then overrun them

Why do you say that? RP now functions as FnP and so does work against them getting swept. ?

FNP doesn't prevent sweeping advances.

Typo. I left out the all-important "NOT."

Think i'm gonna try the ole Be'lakor with a LR and Kharn +9 'zerks combo and see how that goes. Not really sure if i should run him as my Warlord or ally him in from CD and bring some other goodies from that AB? What do you'll think? What else should my list include besides 2 units of nurgle spawn to tie up the wraiths?

You could do kharn+zerkers+land raider, nurgle lord on bike+nurgle spawn, cheap cultists, heldrakes, belakor, horrors and a grinder.

Not sure on the points but it would look like this:
CAD CSM:
HQ
kharn
Nurgle bike lord
troops
zerkers
Cultists
FA
1 or 2 heldrakes
nurgle spawn
Heavy
Land raider

Allied CD
belakor
horrors

 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
I know it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm gonna say bezerkers in rhinos. Necrons weak point right now is close combat, RP doesn't mean anything if you sweep them in close combat. So bezerkers and Nurgle chaos spawn. get in close and then overrun them

Lets do the math.
Zerkers vs Cron warriors with decursion and res orb:
1 zerker: 4 (attacks) * 2/3 (to hit) * 2/3 (to wound) * 1/2 (to pass armor) * 1/4 for a cron warrior to fail RP - resulting in 0.22 wounds. Means you need 5 zerkers to more or less reliably kill 1 cron warrior on the charge. You'll inflict more wounds if you have a power weapon/power fist sarge.
In return, every cron warrior kills 0.08 zerkers.

So, in the end, you could win by 1-2. Means they'll have to pass ld8-9 or get swept.

However, if they do pass, than zerkers start dealing 0.16 wounds before rp - as rerolls for RP would be over, they'd just get 4+, so zerkers wiuld deal 0.08 wounds to cron warriors. Exactly the ammount of wounds cron warriors do to them. And Warriors go ahead if there's a lord for rerolling ones.

And cron warrior kills 2 times more than a zerker if he get a charge. Also, don't forget, they can shoot rapid fire + charge. Means you'll have to protect zerkers from...a cron warrior counter-charge. Cause they'd kill 4 times more than zerkers point-to point.

Rhino zerkers wouldn't work.

You need to deal enough wounds without suffering too many wounds in return. Deathstars would work. How to pass wraiths? Cypher. H&R will help significantly in this case. Make a squad of 20 angry chaos marines with marks of your liking - be it slaanesh for fnp or khorne for more choppiness and reliable charge ranges or even nurgle for t5 and fear - i'd stick to slaanesh/khorne, however - add in Cypher and Huron for infiltrate and you've got a more or less reliable 2-d turn charge while he can't tarpit you.

Walkers! Yep, that's the case where walkers will shine if they get in mellee. Neither of cron warriors, immortals or flayed ones can do anything at all against walkers in mellee. So, helbrute formations and maulerfiends are great in this case once again!

Summoned daemons are a decent bauble wrap and WC generator. Don't forget, crons have no psychers. Means you could more or less reliably do your thing with psychers.

I don't like to betray fellow Necron players but a lot of the advice here isn't very good.

Want to know what actually scares Necrons?

Be'lakor
Flying daemon prince with the burning brand and ML3
Heldrakes
Allied Daemons, especially flying ones.

You might notice the theme is flying, because decurions will have zero AA at 1500 pts. If you try to slog it out on foot with MEQ infantry and walkers you are going to have a bad day. If you fly around laying down torrents (which work on open topped vehicles remember) and summoning units onto objectives, you'll do well.

I just hope you don't linger under the impression Chaos Space Marine armies should have any space marines in them

If you play people who don't whinge about Forgeworld then pick up 3x Chaos Rapier Weapons Batteries with Cyclotrathe Pattern Conversion Beamers.

The BS4 24-48" S10, AP1, Large Blast seems like it might be useful in this situation.

Tekron wrote:
I don't like to betray fellow Necron players but a lot of the advice here isn't very good.

Want to know what actually scares Necrons?

Be'lakor
Flying daemon prince with the burning brand and ML3
Heldrakes
Allied Daemons, especially flying ones.

You might notice the theme is flying, because decurions will have zero AA at 1500 pts. If you try to slog it out on foot with MEQ infantry and walkers you are going to have a bad day. If you fly around laying down torrents (which work on open topped vehicles remember) and summoning units onto objectives, you'll do well.

I just hope you don't linger under the impression Chaos Space Marine armies should have any space marines in them

How are you gona score points if everything's flying? Besides, it's more of a Daemons with Allied CSM rather than CSM you're suggesting. And power armor CSM can be good.

 koooaei wrote:

Tekron wrote:
I don't like to betray fellow Necron players but a lot of the advice here isn't very good.

Want to know what actually scares Necrons?

Be'lakor
Flying daemon prince with the burning brand and ML3
Heldrakes
Allied Daemons, especially flying ones.

You might notice the theme is flying, because decurions will have zero AA at 1500 pts. If you try to slog it out on foot with MEQ infantry and walkers you are going to have a bad day. If you fly around laying down torrents (which work on open topped vehicles remember) and summoning units onto objectives, you'll do well.

I just hope you don't linger under the impression Chaos Space Marine armies should have any space marines in them

How are you gona score points if everything's flying? Besides, it's more of a Daemons with Allied CSM rather than CSM you're suggesting. And power armor CSM can be good.

Summon units onto objectives, hover or glide onto them if they are not close to the main Necron force. Camp cultist blobs in cover near any in your backfield and they should last two or three turns at least.

It's definitely a CSM army more than Daemons, because the Heldrakes are expensive. It can be done without allied Daemons at all in fact.

Sure - that's another way. But don't discard csm. They're dead hard if supported properly.

I'm experimenting with a list against a necron guy in our local group.

First off, I believe that the black legion relic, Eye of the Night, is a steal and is basically a free pop for the quantum shielding on an enemy vehicle of your choice. Since you're likely firing at open-topped vehicles you might get lucky and hit an Explodes result.

I noticed that Desubot mentioned it above, but it does in fact have ignore cover, so no jink saves.

I am also considering either the triple-helbrute formation or a pair of maulerfiends. I am hard pressed to afford both, because I also happen to have a lord of skulls I want to fit in there. If I didn't have it, I would most likely include both fiends and brutes.

I do like the lashers on the maulers since they seem perfect to negate all those extra attacks that wraiths have and I honestly rarely get good use out of the magma cutters.

Heavy flamers on the brutes maybe? They're a bit expensive, but they might pay off.

A heldrake or two, because heldrakes. Depends on your table size. When we first started playing we didn't have those huge 6x4 tables and they kept flying off the map.

As for obsec, I love to bring 3-4 groups of plain old marines with a flamer in rhinos to claim objectives. I only go with cultists if I run out of points.

Other than that, I like to hold my lord in my backlines with a medium-sized bikesquad (bikes, because necrons have a lot of high-strength weaponry that laugh at nurgle spawn) to counter possible deep strike shenanigans. Good old fistclaw nurgle-lord on a bike.

I got the feeling that a nurgle daemon prince w/ Black mace would be good vs Wraiths. Ok they're thoughness 5 so they'll only fail that test on a 6 but the important bit is that it's a daemon weapon

The problem with the Black Mace is that the DP will be super expensive and is unlikely to take out his pts worth of wraiths before they kill him. You'd need to get super lucky.

You're better off chewing through infantry with it. Wraiths would probably kill DP before he kills them. And they'll cost less.

 koooaei wrote:
Sure - that's another way. But don't discard csm. They're dead hard if supported properly.

Fixed that for you.

Do you have any maulerfiends? A maulerfiend with tendrils will tie up wraiths all game.

I think spawn would be better at targeting everything but the wraiths. Wraiths chew through spawn with ease due to being strength 6 and spawn lacking a save.