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Greetings everyone!

I was wondering when, in the fluff, the first non-primarch generated space marine chapters came about. Was it directly related to the Codex or were there "splinter" legions before then that were not directly affiliated with the various primarchs/original chapters?

Thanks everyone! May the Emperor bless your dice!

Not quite sure what you mean.

All of the various Successor Chapters are descended from one of the First Founding Legions, and so have geneseed derived from that First Founding's Primarch.

I'm sorry for the lack of clarity. Essentially I am asking if prior to Gulliman writing the Codex that divided up the legions, were there only the original twenty or had others already broken off?

It seems (based on some net searching) that the original twenty were the only ones until the codex forced them to break up, but I'm wondering if there is anything saying otherwise (like legions that had some internal split and thus were acting separately before this.)

Side question: does anyone know the date (in fluff) of the end of the Heresy and specifically when the Codex Astartes was written?

Thanks again!

The Codex Astartes was written post-Heresy, so had nothing to do with the founding of the Legions Astartes. During the Great Crusade, there were just the twenty Legions, Chapters did not yet exist in the way that they are used in M41.

Two of the legions were eradicated prior to the Heresy. I'm not aware of any splits within a legion.

If I understand correctly, the closest you're going to find are the Nomad-Predation fleets of the Raven Guard, who were exiled by Corax for their overly brutal tactics. This fleet would eventually form into the Carcharodon chapter.

Technically, chapters did exist within the legion. They were a unit of organization. The legions were huge and there were plenty of unique sub-structures, cultural gatherings, and other unique organizations based on culture, tactics, campaigns. Most of the legions did not operate as one continuous unit. They were spread out across the galaxy, taking orders from Praetors, First Captains, Noyan-Khans, and whatever other ranks the legions used for the equivalent of chapter master. If you're only looking for pre-heresy marines that weren't around their primarch, then any of those will be fine.

Also, the date you're asking for is the date of the second founding. 7 years after the end of the heresy, 021.M31.

(edited my poster to remove sleep deprive influenced fail)

Do you mean the proto marines that were used during the earth unification wars?

jareddm wrote:
If I understand correctly, the closest you're going to find are the Nomad-Predation fleets of the Raven Guard, who were exiled by Corax for their overly brutal tactics. This fleet would eventually form into the Carcharodon chapter.

Technically, chapters did exist within the legion. They were a unit of organization. The legions were huge and there were plenty of unique sub-structures, cultural gatherings, and other unique organizations based on culture, tactics, campaigns. Most of the legions did not operate as one continuous unit. They were spread out across the galaxy, taking orders from Praetors, First Captains, Noyan-Khans, and whatever other ranks the legions used for the equivalent of chapter master. If you're only looking for pre-heresy marines that weren't around their primarch, then any of those will be fine.

Also, the date you're asking for is the date of the second founding. 7 years after the end of the heresy, 021.M31.

Where did you get that fluff about the Carcharadons, would love to read more? I thought that was all fan made/speculation fluff.

I think the OP is asking whether the Second Founding happened as a result of the Codex being written or whether the Codex was written after.

 Rippy wrote:

jareddm wrote:
If I understand correctly, the closest you're going to find are the Nomad-Predation fleets of the Raven Guard, who were exiled by Corax for their overly brutal tactics. This fleet would eventually form into the Carcharodon chapter.

Technically, chapters did exist within the legion. They were a unit of organization. The legions were huge and there were plenty of unique sub-structures, cultural gatherings, and other unique organizations based on culture, tactics, campaigns. Most of the legions did not operate as one continuous unit. They were spread out across the galaxy, taking orders from Praetors, First Captains, Noyan-Khans, and whatever other ranks the legions used for the equivalent of chapter master. If you're only looking for pre-heresy marines that weren't around their primarch, then any of those will be fine.

Also, the date you're asking for is the date of the second founding. 7 years after the end of the heresy, 021.M31.

Where did you get that fluff about the Carcharadons, would love to read more? I thought that was all fan made/speculation fluff.

it is, as far as I know he's simply presenting theories and opinions as facts.

that said, a chapter HAS been produced that is not the genesires of any primarchs. this is of course Chapter 666, the Grey Knights