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Experimenting with an aggressive Skaven list. Not taking any cannons or ranged weapons with the storm banner
Thanquol is going to be going with the Stormfiends, using the grindfist to just appear into combat or in my opponents side of the table
to add to shutting down their ranged. I can split Thanquol afterwards if I choose to, to let off some serious spells right in their lines.
While my army runs its way up, gutter runners come in to mess with war machines..
The doomwheel does its usual nuisance duties.
The giant rats redirect as usual.
Slaves to bog down as usual.
Storm vermin will hopefully reach the enemy untouched, same for the rat ogres.

Warlord goes with the storm vermin, same with the BSB.

Thanquol and stormfiends should turn up in turn 2. By the time thats there hopefully the rest of my force will have covered enough
ground to make it into combat.

Skaven End Times. (2498pts)
Skaven - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.7.7. (Standard) (2498pts)
(No Category) (52pts)
- Army Size
Army (0-2999 points)

Giant Rats (26pts)
6x Giant Rats, Packmaster
Giant Rats (26pts)
6x Giant Rats, Packmaster

Lords (878pts)
Thanquol & Boneripper (The End Times - Thanquol) (650pts)
Thanquol & Boneripper
AB - Staff of the Horned One, AB - Warp-amulet, AB - Warpstone Tokens (FAQ'ed), Warpfire Projectors
Wizard Level 4
Skaven Spells of Ruin and/or Plague

Warlord (228pts)
Shield, War-litter
Magic Items and Scavenge-pile items
AB - Warlock-augmented Weapon (FAQ'ed), BRB - Dragonhelm, BRB - Talisman of Preservation

Heroes (122pts)
Chieftain (122pts)
Shield
Battle Standard Bearer
AB - Storm Banner (FAQ'ed)

Core (632pts)
Skavenslaves (102pts)
Musician, 50x Skavenslaves

Skavenslaves (102pts)
Musician, 50x Skavenslaves

Stormvermin (428pts)
Musician
Standard Bearer
BRB - Razor Standard
46x Stormvermin
46x Shields

Special (324pts)
Gutter Runners (60pts)
5x Gutter Runners, Two Hand Weapons

Rat Ogres (264pts)
Packmaster, Packmaster, Packmaster, Rat Ogres, Rat Ogres, Rat Ogres, Rat Ogres, Rat Ogres, Rat Ogres

Rare (490pts)
Doomwheel (150pts)

Stormfiends (340pts)
Stormfiends
Grinderfists
Stormfiends
Shock gauntlets
Stormfiends
Shock gauntlets
Stormfiends
Shock gauntlets

Created with BattleScribe

Anythin?

Stormfriends should be taking rattling cannons. They're hands down the best option.

 Sasa0mg wrote:
Anythin?

I had to reformat things to take it all in:

Thanquol & Boneripper = 650
Warlord - WAW, dragonhelm, talisman of preservation, shield, war-litter = 228

Chieftain - BSB (storm banner), shield = 122

46 Stormvermin - standard (razor), musician, shields = 428
50 Slaves - musician = 102
50 Slaves - musician = 102
6 Giant Rats - packmaster = 26
6 Giant Rats - packmaster = 26

6 Rat Ogres - 3 packmasters = 264
5 Gutter Runners = 60

4 Stormfiends - 3x shock gauntlets, 1x grinderfist = 340
Doomwheel = 150

Groovy stuff overall, and FWIW I think pushing the stormfiends 'deep strike + assault' deal is worth it, as opposed to non-burrowing 'plod forward + shoot' builds. The list is overall pretty light on shooting, but you know, I play fighty skaven too, so I feel that.

I do have a few small comments:
*Warlord Weapon: I prefer ogre blade over the WAW, to bust open armor and deal with high toughness, something the stormies suck at. I know they've got AP from the razor standard, but I still think 4 S6 > 5 S5 on the warlord. It's just particularly nice with the AP
*Rat Darts: why 6 giant rats? Usual dart size is 5 + 1 packmaster, run 2-wide.
*Gutter Runners: no slings + poison?? Or at least poisoned throwing stars / hw?? I have a feeling points ran out on you, but I could probably dig it up ...

- Salvage

thedarkavenger wrote:Stormfriends should be taking rattling cannons. They're hands down the best option.

I know they are strong, I may delve into that at a later point but I'm not the biggest fan of BS3, and I think the combat would be kinda cool. Thanquol will be able to split and shoot the turn they arrive hopefully if there is something in need of being flamed.

Boss Salvage wrote:

 Sasa0mg wrote:
Anythin?

I had to reformat things to take it all in:

Thanquol & Boneripper = 650
Warlord - WAW, dragonhelm, talisman of preservation, shield, war-litter = 228

Chieftain - BSB (storm banner), shield = 122

46 Stormvermin - standard (razor), musician, shields = 428
50 Slaves - musician = 102
50 Slaves - musician = 102
6 Giant Rats - packmaster = 26
6 Giant Rats - packmaster = 26

6 Rat Ogres - 3 packmasters = 264
5 Gutter Runners = 60

4 Stormfiends - 3x shock gauntlets, 1x grinderfist = 340
Doomwheel = 150

Groovy stuff overall, and FWIW I think pushing the stormfiends 'deep strike + assault' deal is worth it, as opposed to non-burrowing 'plod forward + shoot' builds. The list is overall pretty light on shooting, but you know, I play fighty skaven too, so I feel that.

I do have a few small comments:
*Warlord Weapon: I prefer ogre blade over the WAW, to bust open armor and deal with high toughness, something the stormies suck at. I know they've got AP from the razor standard, but I still think 4 S6 > 5 S5 on the warlord. It's just particularly nice with the AP
*Rat Darts: why 6 giant rats? Usual dart size is 5 + 1 packmaster, run 2-wide.
*Gutter Runners: no slings + poison?? Or at least poisoned throwing stars / hw?? I have a feeling points ran out on you, but I could probably dig it up ...

- Salvage

The rat darts are 6 purely to make use of more points, no other reason. I could remove that I suppose.
Gutter runners to have slings and poison is expensive Id need to find room for the exrta points somewhere.

The weapon on the warlord is that, because I would hope the extra attack and +1s would even out / be better against t3 targets such as elves and empire etc, is still 2's to wound. I do see what you mean with the ogre blade though that is virtually guaranteed dead and would
give me 5pts back into the list.

I like the theme, but I think there's room for tweaks.

I'd drop some rats from the darts and see what else you can shave to get the gutter runners poison and slings. It's their entire reason for being.

2A at S3 isn't going to cut it against their main targets (Warmachines, monsters, lone characters), so if you can't find points for the poison slings then just drop them and invest those points elsewhere.

If you drop them I'd say pull up 2 more rat darts (again stick to 5 per unit), the dead-drops are invaluable, their job as chaff is invaluable etc. especially since you are focusing on combat (getting those disrupting flank charges with your SV and Slaves will be a big deal).

For the ROgers I would suggest splitting them into 3 units of 2, and upgrading each to have a Master Bred Rat Ogre. Run them one behind each other and use them as supporting daggers to boost combat res. Their 1 rank isn't going to matter in any combats anyways, and the extra damage that a MB ROger does will.

Re the Warlord. I agree with Salvage that AWA isn't worth it. For 39 less points you can throw a halberd on him, which gives you the same benefit minus 1 attack. As far as magic weapons go I'm a fan of Sword of Anti-Heroes, Blade of Nurglich, or if you can spare the points and want to be that guy then throw the Fellblade on him (give him a shield and warlitter so he gets at least a 3+ save).

I'd give the BSB a ward and put the Storm Banner on the SV, but that's to taste.

I would also opt for 1x Grinder and 3x Rattling Cannons personally, I know you're going combat heavy, but without any magical shooting ethereal units can be a real headache. The Rattling guys are still good in combat too, just not extra good.

So, given what people have said I've made some adjustments.

*Adding in ratling guns I've figured I would drop the storm banner as not to cause myself hindrance, though the list is currently incomplete so I DO have room to add it back in.
*Gave the warlord the ogre blade. I like him having a 2+ save 2+ward vs flaming and 4+ward in general.
*Added a cheap warlock engineer so that I can bring the rocket.
*Reduced the giant rat units
*Added slings and poison attacks to the gutter runners
*Topped up skaven slaves to meet requirements as I dropped the stormvermins shields as I want to be using the halberds.
*Gave storm fiends ratlings, and reduced the unit size as a result to give myself a second doomwheel. If combat isn't their initial port of call then I don't think I really need
4 Stormfiends given unless I'm wrong, that Thanquol will be with them when they come up as he is able to join the unit? (monster special character with monstrous infantry)

Taken the rat ogres out at the moment, but I do have the opportunity to bring 'some' back in if needed.

Really struggling to add in the rares, it seems like the entire books choices live there. Special offers very little at all.
I still have a good 150 or so points left to fill.

Skaven (2360pts)
Skaven - Army Book (2013-4) -V8.7.7. (End Times) (2360pts)

(No Category) (46pts)
Giant Rats
5x Giant Rats, Packmaster
Giant Rats
5x Giant Rats, Packmaster

Lords (873pts)
Thanquol & Boneripper

Warlord
Shield, War-litter
Dragonhelm, Ogre Blade, Talisman of Preservation

Heroes (167pts)
Chieftain
Battle Standard Bearer, Shield

Warlock Engineer
(Clan Skryre Gear of War) - Doomrocket
Wizard Level 1

Core (629pts)
Skavenslaves
60x Skavenslaves
Musician 2pts

Skavenslaves
60x Skavenslaves
Musician 2pts

Stormvermin
Champion, Musician, 45x Stormvermin
Standard Bearer
BRB - Razor Standard

Rare (555pts)
Doomwheel
Doomwheel

3x Stormfiends
Grindfist
2x Gatling

Special (90pts)
Gutter Runners
5x Gutter Runners
5x Poisoned Attacks, 5x Slings

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could always take 10 from each of the slaves, drop in a big unit of clanrats and give clanrats and stormvermin gatlings lol. I really dunno what to do with these points >.<

 Sasa0mg wrote:
*Topped up skaven slaves to meet requirements as I dropped the stormvermins shields as I want to be using the halberds.

Derp, smart on dropping the shields, I must have assumed it was a modeling thing. My stormies have never hefted a shield in their tiny lives

*Gave storm fiends ratlings, and reduced the unit size as a result to give myself a second doomwheel. If combat isn't their initial port of call then I don't think I really need
4 Stormfiends given unless I'm wrong, that Thanquol will be with them when they come up as he is able to join the unit? (monster special character with monstrous infantry)

IIRC Monsters can never join units, Monster characters or otherwise. There was a weird twilight time at the end of 7E where skink characters on stegs were ranking up in temple guard blocks, but 8E put an end to that nonsense. Does Thanquol tunnel on his own? Otherwise I think he's stuck deploying like everybody else.

On the storm fiends, do you still need the tunneler? Why not just triple ratling guns to lay down an ocean of bullets as they stroll forward - pretty sure they're all move-and-fire (i.e. infinitely better than ratling gun weapon teams). Or maybe add a third ratling gun dude and switch the fourth tunnel fiend to electro-shock or some combat nastiness (and the warp nipple electro armor weirdness).

Taken the rat ogres out at the moment, but I do have the opportunity to bring 'some' back in if needed.

Glad to see it. Man are they bad ...

Really struggling to add in the rares, it seems like the entire books choices live there. Special offers very little at all.

I always take one or two handfuls of censer bearers myself, mostly because I find myself starving for things that are competent in combat. At least for one turn

I could always take 10 from each of the slaves, drop in a big unit of clanrats and give clanrats and stormvermin gatlings lol. I really dunno what to do with these points >.<

Meh, I'd steer clear of weapon teams if you're rocking fiends. Let them handle the weapon team guns - not because I hate weapon teams flat out (I spam mortars), but because they're just way better at them.

Here's my shopping list:
*BSB Gear - Where's this rat going? You don't have a bunker for him, so guessing he'll be shoved into combat at some point? How about going big with armor of destiny + shield or halberd?
*Slave Command - Musicians bro. Always.
*Storm Fiends - As above: swap tunnel upgrade to fighty upgrade, add 4th fiend with 3rd ratling gun. Trudge forward and kill.

- Salvage

Nah he doesn't tunnel on his own, so hes going to be running up, though because of how innately strong he is I think I will take the warpfire throwers instead of the combat weapons on him.

The reason I like the tunnel on the stormfiends is when they come in they count as not moving which means full bs short range shots at hopefully the rear of my opponents units.

Musicians only come to 4pts!
I had contemplated the BSB having the armor of destiny. But I was going to leave it and see what else I can get in before giving him stuff.

I found a weapons team that can tunnel and got all excited until I realized that the only unit that has access to it already comes on from my opponents table edge -.-~ dafuq lol.

I'd still rock the Storm Banner too, even if it fouls up your rattling cannons a bit you're going to find the shutdown on flyers and enemy war-machines and shooting to be invaluable. stack that thing with Howling Warpgail and/or the Shadow Magnet Trinket and you'll be making a lot of Elf armies cry.

If you are using End Times magic, then i HIGHLY recommend using the Warp Seer. I played a doubles Tournament and my friend took one, it was brutal. Since you can cast a spell as many times as you like, Warp Lightning can be re-rolled, always counts as having 6 hits and it only takes one dice. Well...Let's just say on a single turn he managed to cast Warp Lightning 9 times. We tabled 4 opponents at most giving away a Rat Dart. Also Wither is ridiculously broken in end times.

But if you fail to meet the casting requirements of a spell, it may not be attempted again. So the re-roll of the Warp seer was invaluable and it's what makes him better then Thanquol.

But if it isn't End Times magic, your list is sound.

Yeah end times magic isn't often used. As funny as that would be lol.

Flying definitely is an issue, and with a combat army like mine its why I didnt go for having cannons or weapon teams really.

The storm banner is good but I think, i can definitely get the magnet into the storm vermin. The slaves are somewhat fodder for the doom wheels and such as well, though I know they are quite important for clogging up my enemies I think that I would rather have Thanquol casting Howling warp gale and rely on having the magnet in the storm vermin then getting a storm banner.

If I get the storm banner the whole idea of coming up behind my enemies and opening up into their backs could be a complete flub which would inevitably doom me a bit. The storm fiends really need to inflict some heavy damage on the turn they appear to kind of, destabilize my enemy.

With 160 points free, 130 after the magnet is used I could take gutter runners with warpgrinders and slings (poison attacks but I would have to find the points from somehwere).

The bonus for this is after deployment when it comes to marking where my hidden units will come up I get to place down a second token, meaning my opponent can't be sure which one is the storm fiends.

I COULD go for having 2 units of gutter runners both with warp grinders but then the chances of them turning up early to deal with war machines would be halved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would probably also end up having to take their poison away



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I miss jezzails :<
I wish the rare allowence was a bit bigger, for 640pts I can have 4 stormfiends and 2 doom wheels.

In the lower point lists I've worked out for this, using this as a basis I have 4 stormfiends and 1 doom wheel up until 2500pts, makes me sad :<

 Sasa0mg wrote:
I COULD go for having 2 units of gutter runners both with warp grinders but then the chances of them turning up early to deal with war machines would be halved.

They can just walk on whatever table edge they want starting Turn 2 on a 4+ for free

- Salvage

Yeah I know, the advantage of them coming on with warp grinders though is that the opponent wont know which is the Storm fiends! It will be a 1 in 3 that they pick right.

Where as a competent opponent with the tools to deal with them will prepare for their turn 2 arrival without opening themselves up to the rest of my army as it comes in.

Ah smart, I hadn't even thought of the tunnel token shell game. Also sorry, didn't mean to suggest you didn't know how gutters work, I think I was just kneejerking against warpgrinder dumbness

- Salvage

Re the Stormbanner, you get to choose when you pop it, so you can usually get yourself a turn of shooting with it anyways before it goes off, and it never seems to last a whole game for me, just that clutch point where it really matters in most cases.

I suppose the storm banner would give me more utility as a sort of 'all comers' list, because without tailoring if I were to come up against a dwarf or empire gun line not having it could be pretty damaging.

It would be quite good at forcing the dispel scroll as well... I can warp gale a flyer or shooting heavy army into giving up the scroll and then just pop the banner in their turn anyway...

I think I'm going to find a place for it if I can. The problem with the banner is it means that getting the magnet in is much more difficult. Think I will give the gutter runners a warpgrinder just so my opponent can't just turn / run from / guard the spot that the storm fiends are going to come up.