Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

1. Which one is best?
2. Are gifts worth it?
3. Could it replace my WOC Daemon Prince?
4. If it does where will my magic come from instead?

My current go to list for competitive games is a slaanesh/nurgle daemon prince, unkillable disk bsb, 4 slaanesh chariots, warhounds, 2 regen chimeras and skullcrushers.

1. I like the HKB. That one with the asf sword+ Eternal Blade makes Nagash and KFA cry.

2. See answer 1.

3. No. Mostly because they got replaced when the wood elf book came out.

4. Sorcerer lord.

I prefer the 550 point guy. He doesn't have HKB, but he has more attacks and higher strength. Throw a bunch of minor gifts on him, and he'll be a ridiculous threat against anything on the table.

However, in either case, all of them are still vulnerable to a cannon to the face.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
1. I like the HKB. That one with the asf sword+ Eternal Blade makes Nagash and KFA cry.

2. See answer 1.

3. No. Mostly because they got replaced when the wood elf book came out.

4. Sorcerer lord.

This.

I like the 550 guy. Since they all have frenzy combat rez and getting bogged down or flanked and boned is a thing. He has stubborn, and breath weapon, pretty huge.

I'd likely take a greater and 2 lesser gifts on him and since I have a 3k event coming up, run him with Fateweaver for the lolz. If he gets bogged down I can use a shadow spell to swap spots if needed. fatey can tstomp slaves ftw.

 Acardia wrote:
I like the 550 guy. Since they all have frenzy combat rez and getting bogged down or flanked and boned is a thing. He has stubborn, and breath weapon, pretty huge.

I'd likely take a greater and 2 lesser gifts on him and since I have a 3k event coming up, run him with Fateweaver for the lolz. If he gets bogged down I can use a shadow spell to swap spots if needed. fatey can tstomp slaves ftw.

I'd probably just run him with the pair of Lesser Gifts myself, as 600pts is a helluva lot to sink into a single model, especially one as squishy as what our Greater Daemons currently are.

The S5 Breath Weapon is too tasty to pass up, especially if you can also end up landing the Noxious Breath result from the Lesser table. While Heroic Killing Blow is hard to pass up on, with two rolls, there's a decent shot of landing Cleaving Blow and at least doubling your wounds vs. multi-wound targets.

Probably the only time I'd consider going the added pts for the Greater Gift would be for adding on the Axe of Khorne for the instant +3A vs. most units, though I tend to prefer that weapon for a Jugger Herald...

The Big Thirster who managed to get MW(2) and ASF on the lesser gifts would crush the bejeezus out of just about anything it charged into. The S9 attacks remove any armor save. Even if the target has 4++, the 'Thirster will still likely do 8 Wounds before the breath weapon.

He'd crush just about any Monster. Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry would fold up in front of him. He'd on average do 14-16 Wounds against Ogres, Mournfang Cav, Skullcrushers, Demigryphs, etc. before considering the breath weapon.

But, of course, a cannon to the dome still makes him really unhappy.

Saldiven wrote:
The Big Thirster who managed to get MW(2) and ASF on the lesser gifts would crush the bejeezus out of just about anything it charged into. The S9 attacks remove any armor save. Even if the target has 4++, the 'Thirster will still likely do 8 Wounds before the breath weapon.

He'd crush just about any Monster. Monstrous Cavalry and Monstrous Infantry would fold up in front of him. He'd on average do 14-16 Wounds against Ogres, Mournfang Cav, Skullcrushers, Demigryphs, etc. before considering the breath weapon.

But, of course, a cannon to the dome still makes him really unhappy.

Maybe it's because my local scene is simply filled to the brim with elves of all flavours, but I've found that our Greaters in general tend to worry less about cannonballs and more about eating a full-on barrage of S4 + elven Magic phase...

At least the Wrath of Khorne 'Thirster can laugh at the truly nasty killers such as Warlocks and other Magic Missle/Direct Damage tossing machines.
Easily the biggest plus in my book!

In the smaller games that I play 2000pts normally I think I'd lean towards the cheapest thirster. maybe with a couple of lesser gifts

BAN wrote:
In the smaller games that I play 2000pts normally I think I'd lean towards the cheapest thirster. maybe with a couple of lesser gifts

Nothing wrong with that. The cheap 'Thirster is the same as the existing DoC book Bloodthirster, and I've had lots of fun with him. It's alarming how often he survives the whole game.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
1. I like the HKB. That one with the asf sword+ Eternal Blade makes Nagash and KFA cry.

Isn't the eternal blade overkill?, I mean the BT is alrdy WS10 and I9, 7 Attacks with frenzy. Getting the +2 attacks weapon from the BRB sounds like a safer more cheaper bet, I mean you miss the +str but with HKB isn't the str kinda redundant? could roll 1 greater 2 lesser.

Ypu can't take brb items only hit and hope daemonic gifts from the daemon book... boooooo

BAN wrote:
Ypu can't take brb items only hit and hope daemonic gifts from the daemon book... boooooo

You can take the weapons from the BRB, in the greater and lesser rewards it says you can pick one of the BRB weapons up to X value of one of the chaos gods ones. That is how you secure the ASF weapon.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
1. I like the HKB. That one with the asf sword+ Eternal Blade makes Nagash and KFA cry.

Isn't the eternal blade overkill?, I mean the BT is alrdy WS10 and I9, 7 Attacks with frenzy. Getting the +2 attacks weapon from the BRB sounds like a safer more cheaper bet, I mean you miss the +str but with HKB isn't the str kinda redundant? could roll 1 greater 2 lesser.

You can hope for MW2, and to force wounds through. But he's only S6, and most of the things he needs HKB for are T5+.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
1. I like the HKB. That one with the asf sword+ Eternal Blade makes Nagash and KFA cry.

Isn't the eternal blade overkill?, I mean the BT is alrdy WS10 and I9, 7 Attacks with frenzy. Getting the +2 attacks weapon from the BRB sounds like a safer more cheaper bet, I mean you miss the +str but with HKB isn't the str kinda redundant? could roll 1 greater 2 lesser.

You can hope for MW2, and to force wounds through. But he's only S6, and most of the things he needs HKB for are T5+.

The real bonus however for taking a 'Thirster is that they're cheap for a Greater Daemon since they're not forking out for any Wizard Lv's like the others are.

Taking an Exalted Gift/Hellforged Artifact is pretty much defeating the entire point of going the 'Thirster route... Not to mention that both the Kipper especially, and the LoC do the whole Eternal Beatstick routine much better than the 'Thirster does, as they can also bring in some brutal spell synergies to go with it. (Caco Choir/Phantasma & Treason respectively.)

The main selling point of the 'Thirster is that he's the cheapest route to go face wrecking high armour save units and/or multi-wound targets, as all he really needs is a pair of Lesser Rewards. (and really, really aims for Cleaving Blow!)

Experiment 626 wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
1. I like the HKB. That one with the asf sword+ Eternal Blade makes Nagash and KFA cry.

Isn't the eternal blade overkill?, I mean the BT is alrdy WS10 and I9, 7 Attacks with frenzy. Getting the +2 attacks weapon from the BRB sounds like a safer more cheaper bet, I mean you miss the +str but with HKB isn't the str kinda redundant? could roll 1 greater 2 lesser.

You can hope for MW2, and to force wounds through. But he's only S6, and most of the things he needs HKB for are T5+.

The real bonus however for taking a 'Thirster is that they're cheap for a Greater Daemon since they're not forking out for any Wizard Lv's like the others are.

Taking an Exalted Gift/Hellforged Artifact is pretty much defeating the entire point of going the 'Thirster route... Not to mention that both the Kipper especially, and the LoC do the whole Eternal Beatstick routine much better than the 'Thirster does, as they can also bring in some brutal spell synergies to go with it. (Caco Choir/Phantasma & Treason respectively.)

The main selling point of the 'Thirster is that he's the cheapest route to go face wrecking high armour save units and/or multi-wound targets, as all he really needs is a pair of Lesser Rewards. (and really, really aims for Cleaving Blow!)

Without the eternal blade, you're relying solely on the MW2 and HKB to deal with big things and at S6, both are very dicey. Just ask anyone who used black guard for the last dark elf book. Wounding on 3s is not reliable.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
1. I like the HKB. That one with the asf sword+ Eternal Blade makes Nagash and KFA cry.

Isn't the eternal blade overkill?, I mean the BT is alrdy WS10 and I9, 7 Attacks with frenzy. Getting the +2 attacks weapon from the BRB sounds like a safer more cheaper bet, I mean you miss the +str but with HKB isn't the str kinda redundant? could roll 1 greater 2 lesser.

You can hope for MW2, and to force wounds through. But he's only S6, and most of the things he needs HKB for are T5+.

The real bonus however for taking a 'Thirster is that they're cheap for a Greater Daemon since they're not forking out for any Wizard Lv's like the others are.

Taking an Exalted Gift/Hellforged Artifact is pretty much defeating the entire point of going the 'Thirster route... Not to mention that both the Kipper especially, and the LoC do the whole Eternal Beatstick routine much better than the 'Thirster does, as they can also bring in some brutal spell synergies to go with it. (Caco Choir/Phantasma & Treason respectively.)

The main selling point of the 'Thirster is that he's the cheapest route to go face wrecking high armour save units and/or multi-wound targets, as all he really needs is a pair of Lesser Rewards. (and really, really aims for Cleaving Blow!)

Without the eternal blade, you're relying solely on the MW2 and HKB to deal with big things and at S6, both are very dicey. Just ask anyone who used black guard for the last dark elf book. Wounding on 3s is not reliable.

The Insensate Rage 'Thirster comes with a GW, so he's hitting things with S8, albeit at initiative poop.
Still, going 2x Lesser Gifts gives him roughly a slightly better than 33%'ish shot at landing ASF, and keeps him at 550pts, which is the typical cost for a tooled up Greater...

On the other hand, going the Eternal Beatstick route on him, you're going to end up spending 600pts on him! For that cost, you may as well just say ****-it! and take the Wrath of Khorne 'Thirster w/2x Lesser Gifts (for the same freaking cost!), and gain all the extra bonuses such as MR3, S5 Breath weapon, Hatred vs. Characters + 3" added charge vs. a unit containing Characters, S8 1st round of combat & best of all, STUBBORN!!

Totally agree. If you're going to take the Eternal Blade on the HKB Thirster, you might as well take the big guy with Gifts up to 600 points. He's just better all around. I don't see taking the HKB Thirster over the other as the only thing he's possibly better at is killing monsters that are probably half his cost anyway. The big guy is better, inarguably, at everything else.

@Experiment: If he charges, he's S9 first turn of combat (weapon gives +2 on first turn of combat and Daemon of Khorne gives +1 when he charges). And Stubborn on him is pretty awesome as that saves him from the annoying chance of losing combat to static res and risking death from the Ld test penalty.

Does HKB/MW(2) apply to thunderstomps and breath weapons also?

Thunderstomps do not benefit from any Special Rules.

I believe that is the case for the Breath Weapon, too, but not sure.