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Potential for what? I have seen this game a few times now and I can't figure out what it is trying to be. My best guess is that it's some kind of horror game because I get kind of unnerved from watching it.
Interesting that you seem to be trying to fit the game into a genre. Some outlets are saying it is an exploration game but this gameplay trailer does not seem to support that.
Interesting that you seem to be trying to fit the game into a genre. Some outlets are saying it is an exploration game but this gameplay trailer does not seem to support that.
It looks like a new take on gone home, so ya an exploration game. (Gone home could get unnerving too.)
Here is one of the older trailers. It just has this kind of unnerving feel to it like something is coming and it's going to be bad, You know, but you don't quite know what.
When I read "exploration" I think something like Skyrim rather than something like Myst.
I don't think it will be that big. You can see the map in the gameplay and it's not that big of a map. You also see elements like that locked gate that makes me think the map will be more small and looping like a metoidvain thing.
Since you brought up Gone Home, we can use that as an example. Obviously, there are only so many places you can go in a house. The forest in Firewatch may work the same way despite being outdoors (e.g., the gorge from the gameplay trailer). That's exactly why I don't think of such games in terms of exploration. They are more like bus tours.
As for the slight sense of dread you mentioned -- the gameplay trailer really works that up. The first thing that happens is Henry falls. He comes across evidence of grizzly activity, is told not to go into a dangerous cave he's already in, is spied upon by a mysterious figure, falls over by the edge of a cliff, and finds his watch tower has been broken into and his typewriter (arguably an item that symbolizes him) has been thrown out of the window. Yeah ... not exactly a series of events that makes one feel safe and cheerful. I think all of this and the associated emotional experience are meant to contast very sharply with your on-going conversation with Delilah.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/04 20:46:09
Manchu wrote: Since you brought up Gone Home, we can use that as an example. Obviously, there are only so many places you can go in a house. The forest in Firewatch may work the same way despite being outdoors (e.g., the gorge from the gameplay trailer). That's exactly why I don't think of such games in terms of exploration. They are more like bus tours.
As for the slight sense of dread you mentioned -- the gameplay trailer really works that up. The first thing that happens is Henry falls. He comes across evidence of grizzly activity, is told not to go into a dangerous cave he's already in, is spied upon by a mysterious figure, falls over by the edge of a cliff, and finds his watch tower has been broken into and his typewriter (arguably an item that symbolizes him) has been thrown out of the window. Yeah ... not exactly a series of events that makes one feel safe and cheerful. I think all of this and the associated emotional experience are meant to contast very sharply with your on-going conversation with Delilah.
Bus tours are directed. (Fire watch seems to be more directed then gone home though.) I don't tend to measure exploration based on a square footage, but more on a interaction base like what can you do and touch.
I also get a kind of supernatural sense too. Like the grizzly bit. I am not a animal expert, but I have never heard of a grizzly killing someone and then burying them so they can eat them latter. I get the feeling that Dlilah is being honest, but not truthful with you. I kind of wonder if there will actually be something to this uneasy feeling. Like is it really a horror game, or would it be more of a fake out like gone home that kind of looks like one and feels like one, but in the end doesn't really go all the way and scare you.
I think exploration does require significant square footage. I mean exploration in more than the conversational sense; e.g., you could say you explored the contents of the library. Walking through the rooms of a house, even a large house, and rifling through people's possessions is too small, both in absolute terms and also relative to the game's design, to count so far as I am concerned.
Regarding that distinction, however, I think the second issue (relationship to design) is more important than the first (literal space). In most games, there are pre-arranged things for the player to do. In Skyrim, you do quests. In Gone Home, you snoop through your family members' stuff. The exploration part is not really a matter of getting to wander from room to room in the family mansion in Gone Home any more than it is a matter of having freedom to do quests or ignore them as you please in Skyrim. Rather, exploration is something incidental to and ultimately independent from the pre-arranged content. You could explore Skyrim without ever doing a quest. You cannot explore the family mansion in Gone Home without puzzling over your family's things.
I don't get the feeling watching the gameplay trailer that you will be wandering through the park in Firewatch separately from the pre-arranged part of the game, this extended conversation with Delilah.
As far as the supernatural vibe goes ... maybe we are just too used to assuming that a feeling of mystery implicates the supernatural. The only supernatural vibe I experienced watching the gameplay trailer is when Delilah fakes out Henry (and me) after he sees the stranger with the flashlight. When she said, "there's something you should know about this place" I was like, great now she will tell us some campers died out here last summer or whatever.
My take is, the game wants you to think about the human need for control which defines society by placing you in a lonely, "natural" environment.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/04 21:22:02
If you define exploration as something you do to avoid the pre arranged content then how could you make an exploration game? I tend to define exploration very loosely as when your discovering new information about your space.
I could have just been using the word supernatural wrong. I wasn't thinking magical aliens from mars. One of my thoughts is that Dlilah doesn't exist and that you have lost your mind. Like I get the feeling that there is something not normal.
Lack of control seems to be one of the themes. I don't know where I got the idea, but I am thinking there might be some kind of butter fly effect time travel element. (You can be amazed at the theorys I can pull from basically nowhere )
Exploration should be enjoyable but no the goal of a game, ever. IMO the act of exploration is something that should accompany proper game mechanics, it shouldn't be the journey and goal of a game.
Soladrin wrote: Exploration should be enjoyable but no the goal of a game, ever. IMO the act of exploration is something that should accompany proper game mechanics, it shouldn't be the journey and goal of a game.
You got to be crazy!!! () Exploration is one of the best elements to hang your game on. Exploration is fun. Discovering something new tickles your brain in such a nice way. Dead rising is a good example of a game where 99% of the fun comes from exploring. I guess the "Goal" of the game isn't exploration, but the exploration is the reason you play.
Soladrin wrote: Exploration should be enjoyable but no the goal of a game, ever. IMO the act of exploration is something that should accompany proper game mechanics, it shouldn't be the journey and goal of a game.
You got to be crazy!!! () Exploration is one of the best elements to hang your game on. Exploration is fun. Discovering something new tickles your brain in such a nice way. Dead rising is a good example of a game where 99% of the fun comes from exploring. I guess the "Goal" of the game isn't exploration, but the exploration is the reason you play.
Not really, the reason I played Dead Rising was finding new dumb weapon combo's, the act of finding stuff itself was rather tedious. Then again, I thought Skyrim was a pretty boring and extremely shallow game.
Rule Number Two Alert: Guys please do not turn this thread into a referendum on Skryim. I think everyone has exhaustively stated their opinions about that game in other threads.
Onwards:
nomotog wrote: If you define exploration as something you do to avoid the pre arranged content then how could you make an exploration game?
Whoa there -- you are massively overstating my position. What's all this about avoiding the pre-arranged content? No. What I meant (and posted) is that exploration is something "incidental and ultimately independent." In my view, this is necessary because anything else overrides the sense of discovery. You are being presented with information rather than finding it for yourself. When you explore, you are the active party. Most of what goes on in gaming, as deftly illustrated by BioShock, is only technically active. You are usually closely following prompts. That is certainly what is going on in the gameplay trailer above.
nomotog wrote: I tend to define exploration very loosely as when your discovering new information about your space.
That seems too loose. You obtain new information about space just by entering it. Here again, the difference between being active and being passive might be illuminating. When you are playing a game and you can look around the horizon, see some feature, and say "I'm going to go figure out what is happening there" -- and this is not something the game designers have told you to (even if it they ultimately are the ones who allowed it) -- this is what I mean, and I think this is also quite loose.
nomotog wrote: One of my thoughts is that Dlilah doesn't exist and that you have lost your mind. Like I get the feeling that there is something not normal.
Mental illness is abnormal rather than paranormal. Maybe a few lines from the reveal trailer capture what you mean:
Henry: Do people die out here?
Delilah: People die getting out of the shower.
Henry: You know what I mean, as a lookout.
Delilah: Why are we even here?
Henry: To make sure the damn wilderness doesn't burn down.
Delilah: No, our job is to be here when that happens.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/04 22:30:20
Soladrin wrote: Exploration should be enjoyable but no the goal of a game, ever. IMO the act of exploration is something that should accompany proper game mechanics, it shouldn't be the journey and goal of a game.
You got to be crazy!!! () Exploration is one of the best elements to hang your game on. Exploration is fun. Discovering something new tickles your brain in such a nice way. Dead rising is a good example of a game where 99% of the fun comes from exploring. I guess the "Goal" of the game isn't exploration, but the exploration is the reason you play.
Not really, the reason I played Dead Rising was finding new dumb weapon combo's, the act of finding stuff itself was rather tedious. Then again, I thought Skyrim was a pretty boring and extremely shallow game.
Finding new weapon combos is exploration. At least in my book it is. I liked finding new combos and new effects weapons had. Like how beer kegs could trip zombies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/04 23:17:12
Soladrin wrote: Not sure how that constitutes a referendum on Skyrim....
I asked that it not become one, given what has happened in the past when someone (usually you) states a negative opinion about it.
nomotog wrote: Finding new weapon combos is exploration. At least in my book it is.
You weren't kidding when you said your definition was loose. Although I think I see what you mean. I would say deep crafting systems involve exploration and weapon combos is a very light example of that.
nomotog wrote: Finding new weapon combos is exploration. At least in my book it is.
You weren't kidding when you said your definition was loose. Although I think I see what you mean. I would say deep crafting systems involve exploration and weapon combos is a very light example of that.
At least, good crafting systems involve exportation. I believe I still use dead rising 2's system as an example of a good crafting system. (Though my definition of good crafting system has become looser over the years.) My definition of exploration comes from an old study I read about MUDs. You likely have already heard of it. The bartle test gave an example of exploration where a player was trying out the different ways they could pick up items and the different results they had. If you just picked up plutonium by had then you become sick, but if you put it in a bag then pick it up you don't. (There were half a dozen examples all involving picking up plutonium)
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