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So I was thinking:

What the DA could really use is a new dataslate to help with their weaknesses. Specifically: I was thinking that having a dataslate with heavy plasma focus would be cool/themed.

Some ideas: (obviously not all of these in the same army, that would be absurd!)

1) Adding the ability to take 2 plasma cannons on terminators per five man squad.

2) changing terminators storm-bolters to twin-linked plasma guns

3) allowing tactical marines to have 3-4 plasma guns instead of a heavy weapon.

4) removing the "gets hot" rule from plasma weapons in DA armies.

5) allowing DA specific Centurions that had all plasma weapons or somesuch nonsense.

What are your thoughts everyone? Can DA be fixed with the almighty god of PLASMA?

Start by making the land speeder vengeance, our "greatest plasma technology" not an utter piece of

You want to swap Terminator Storm Bolters with TL Plasma Guns? No. Just no.

 Valkyrie wrote:
You want to swap Terminator Storm Bolters with TL Plasma Guns? No. Just no.

The "bolters for plasma" exchange is already a thing in the DA codex: the Ravenwing Knights have tl plasma quasi-guns instead of their tl boltguns. So Deathwing Terminators with tl plasma guns instead of storm bolters aren't really a far stretch.

Have often thought some special plasma rules could help with things in Da codex. A reroll of hot plasma weapons or no gets hot might work. twin linking the LSV would make it more effective.

Having just come up against cypher (who is so much better than most of our named IC) I know how destructive a plasma weapon with no gets hot rule can be.

I'd even settle for a rule where a gets hot roll means no shot is fired but no damage is taken.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
You want to swap Terminator Storm Bolters with TL Plasma Guns? No. Just no.

The "bolters for plasma" exchange is already a thing in the DA codex: the Ravenwing Knights have tl plasma quasi-guns instead of their tl boltguns. So Deathwing Terminators with tl plasma guns instead of storm bolters aren't really a far stretch.

Even if they were given the plasma talons it'd be a welcome improvement. And to be fair, terminators really aren't that much more durable than black knights. And I've never heard someone complain that black knights were overpowered.

The only argument I could see is that terminators get to deep strike, but with scout black knights will be shooting you first turn too. And again, if you think black knights are overpowered, especially given their price....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jazzhands wrote:
A reroll of hot plasma weapons or no gets hot might work. twin linking the LSV would make it more effective.

I've always considered that a possibility to make it better, as well as the potential of giving it armor (similar to sammael's speeder), maybe 12/12/10. Preventing it from dying from a single round of bolter fire.

I mean, in it's current state it's likely to wound itself, especially if it uses it's rapid firing mode, and the fact that it's short range means it needs to get into range of bolters or worse. A single round of shooting from fire warriors and there goes 140 points!

yes as it stands it's terrible! too much of a gamble that it wont make its points back.

and for the price of the model I'd rather take a dark shroud!

Maybe a detachment that has a requirement that any time you can take a plasma weapon you must do so, but your plasma weapons no longer have the get-hot special rule.

And maybe some new "special" deathwing terminators that just equip each of the terminators with a "normal" plasma gun instead of twin linked one? (still keep the power fist of course) and with the above rule they would have to do plasma cannons as their heavy weapon of course.

Not sure what the best change to the LSV would be though.

seriously? no gets hot? so over powered in my opininion if it doesnt cost more. only if they become weaker xeno equivalents with S6 Ap3.

if DA gets this then to make things fair, CSM must have option to upgrade to ectoplasma for 2 or 3pts more.

 Filch wrote:
seriously? no gets hot? so over powered in my opininion if it doesnt cost more. only if they become weaker xeno equivalents with S6 Ap3.

if DA gets this then to make things fair, CSM must have option to upgrade to ectoplasma for 2 or 3pts more.

For starters, tau get strength 6 AP 2 plasma, not 3. Next, what buff would you want to give DA? Preferred enemy for plasma weapons? TL? Both of those are better than not getting hot. And how powerful would we actually be if our plasma doesn't get hot? We already overpay for everything in our codex. For things like the 140 point vengeance that blows itself up turn 2 it's absolutely necessary.

If we get a buff to one of our weapons like other marine chapters do (bolter drill, for example), it'd make the most sense to put it on plasma as that's what our army specializes in.

And its not like we have centurions with grav weapons... or any grav weapons!

I've always thought that DA should have some bonus for plasma, even if its to re roll the get hot result.

Something needs to be done as Jazzhands said. it's not like they have Grav weapons and centurions, that and most of the models are themed with plasma anyway.

 Filch wrote:
seriously? no gets hot? so over powered in my opininion if it doesnt cost more. only if they become weaker xeno equivalents with S6 Ap3.

if DA gets this then to make things fair, CSM must have option to upgrade to ectoplasma for 2 or 3pts more.

Most of what matters Dark Angels already pays more for by default DW-TDA, Black knights, Vengance etc

Shame Nephi/Dark talon couldnt get a Plasma cannon uppgrade.

Everyday I come on here and find a new thread about how bad DA are or the mocking DA players get.

For me I don't have this problem. I don't play in a super competitive group and my DA do ok. Had some good wins had some bad losses.

That said, plasma is a big feature of our codex. Azrael carries it, one of our relics boasts it, black knights, LSV, the list goes on...

We know that at least one plasma weapon exsists that doesn't get hot (see Cypher) and it raises competitive level by several factors.

And that's all I want. Not for me, I don't have the time to play in competitions, but just so DA are not seen as the worst army out there. We don't want to be vanilla marines, we just want a chance for the 1st to shine...


....shine with big blue (safe) plasma blasts!


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also.... plasma flyer? Yes please

 Jazzhands wrote:
also.... plasma flyer? Yes please

Four words: Large Blast Plasma Bombs.

four more words "that don't get hot" (I know, one word was a contraction!)

I mean, why would they? if they get hot when they explode it's not a problem.

I got an idea why not just give all DA units the ability to reroll to Gets Hot! Rolls with plasma guns. This means if you roll a 1 to hit you could reroll, but if you rolled a 2 no reroll.

A lot of good discussion on this page :-)

I was specifically going for a dataslate addition though. Something with some sort of "cost" as well as a benefit based around plasma. Any specific ideas on how that could be done well for the DA?

leerm02 wrote:

A lot of good discussion on this page :-)

I was specifically going for a dataslate addition though. Something with some sort of "cost" as well as a benefit based around plasma. Any specific ideas on how that could be done well for the DA?

Well if we're looking specifically at a formation, there's always the option of forcing you to run the vengeance (which I otherwise never use) in exchange for making all my plasma ignore gets hot. Throw in maybe that you need two squads of black knights, which are also pricey but would heavily benefit from it as well? And GW would be happy doing it, it'd mean they'd actually sell some of the vengeance, which anyone I know right now only buys to build the darkshroud.

on the reroll for "gets hot" I wouldn't even need it to allow the gun to hit just to stop it blowing away yet another marine

On the topic of the Land Speeder Vengeance:

You're literally paying 90 points for the weapon. The platform itself is the exact same thing as a regular speeder (AV10/10/10, 2HP, default heavy bolter), and those are only 50 points.

Seeing as the speeder itself is significantly larger and cannot be taken as part of a squad, it needs to be more durable. It should not share the same profile as a regular land speeder. Even at AV11/11/10, it'd be a lot more functional at least against other marines. I think AV12/12/10, 3HP is at least a start.

Honestly it should only be a 90 points model. It's essentially the same thing as what is an 80 points model in a Missile Launcher speeder, just with better AP but a risk to itself. If they want to make it a little more viable, add a hull point (again, larger than regular speeder) and make the weapon twin-linked. It's the only weapon in the game that's represented by being twin-barreled that is not also twin-linked.


@kingbobbito:
Black Knights don't really benefit from that, actually. They are already twin-linked. I've personally never lost a Black Knight to Gets Hot. I rarely even have to take an armor check because you only have to if you roll double 1's. Even a 1 and then a 2 results in only a miss without a gets hot check.