Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Possessed are possibly one of the coolest units in terms of fluff and looks and their rules don't look half bad at first with five strength, fleet, daemon, fearless, and a cool buff table for the low cost of.... Oh... 130 points for 5 models with only a 3+ save and a 5+ invul....The thing it people have always said it is the price of these guys is what makes them useless, but I say not for overall they just don't have a place... Berzerkers and 5 strength on the charge and are LEAAAGUES cheaper with more attacks. Terminators are actually cheaper (I believe) and have a better save. One might say well... You have the ap three thing you might get while facing MEQ. So does Slaanesh marked warp talons and they can move around much quicker and don't need to roll for their ap. In the new codex that might come out one day what changes would you make to possessed other than price for even if they got a price drop I would only use them for fluff purposes because other units just handle most CC jobs more effectively. What changes would you make? And are there right now any viable ways to run possessed? Also, the mutilator fix is just to make them not exist and roll all of their abilities into the obliterators making them a JACK OF ALL TRADES unit (maybe not... that would raise the price on them...).

I think giving them access to daemon book abilities would be a start. Giving nurgle ones shrouded, tzeench rerolling ones etc etc would really help. In addition to that, make them beasts. 12" movement plus daemonic benefits would really up the ante for possessed IMO

But then wouldn't that just turn them into daemon spawn? I like the idea of giving the daemon book abilities and the beast is nice, but spawn already fill the random trait unit that moves really fast and with 3 wound they fill it a lot better.

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
But then wouldn't that just turn them into daemon spawn? I like the idea of giving the daemon book abilities and the beast is nice, but spawn already fill the random trait unit that moves really fast and with 3 wound they fill it a lot better.

I think this topic belongs in the proposed rules forum.

I agree with Robisagg, (GG Rob), he doesn't mean random trait, he means giving "Deamon of Nurgle" special rule for example, which grants them additional special rules, like Shrouded. Not random you know what you are getting.

edit: got rid of derp

They do need more durability.

Alternatively, some changes to a random table can be introduced. Codex possessed random table is worse than CS one but even CS one is...not good enough to justify it's extreme randomness for such an underwhelming yet extremely expensive unit. But it'd be more interesting if the random table buffs could stack. T1 you get one power out of d3. T2 you get 2-d power out of d3 rerolling the one that's allready in effect (or rolling d2 as you please) and T3 you get the 3-d power.

This way By T3 you get Beasts with 3++, rending and shrowded. Still not great for the points but can definitely justify their use either as a small squad to hide behind blos to get buffed up or as a huge centerpiece squad to draw fire. Protecting them with something like invisibility or FNP from biomancy will even make sence in this case.

 Rippy wrote:

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
But then wouldn't that just turn them into daemon spawn? I like the idea of giving the daemon book abilities and the beast is nice, but spawn already fill the random trait unit that moves really fast and with 3 wound they fill it a lot better.

I think this topic belongs in the proposed rules forum.

I agree with Robisagg, (GG Rob), he doesn't mean random trait, he means giving "Deamon of Nurgle" special rule for example, which grants them additional special rules, like Shrouded. Not random you know what you are getting.

edit: got rid of derp

That's exactly what I was saying. Also, they'd fill a different role, as they'd have saves unlike spawn. So you can have a choice between wound count and saves, with the addition of daemonic benefits (and access to stuff like grimoire/cursed earth)

The random I was talking about was the spawn random table compared to the possessed random table not the daemons abilities :p I have an Idea why not give them wings! Why? Well I feel that things that have wings (some of the models) should use them and think about it gargoyle possessed... and it would entirely justify their price... Also I had an idea that when you killed a possessed at the end of the combat the attacker unit would take a hit (kinda like Lucius) and for each model that dies a possesed may be placed into play within 6 in of that unit. P.S. I like the daemon trait thing... sounds coolz....

I've been looking at Possessed for both Crimson Slaughter and CSM really just combining those two tables into two powers determined by a D3 would make them, not great, but not the pile of poo that they are. Crimson Slaughter allows the Possessed to get into combat with Beast Movement, Shrouded and I think it was some Armor Save, I don't remember. Vanilla gives Rending, AP3 or some other thing that again I can't remember. Make them so that on a roll of 1 = Beasts and Rending, 2 = Shrouded and AP3, 3 = whatever I can't remember. Or however the chart is set up. No modifications except combining the two tables' benefits.

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
The random I was talking about was the spawn random table compared to the possessed random table not the daemons abilities :p I have an Idea why not give them wings! Why? Well I feel that things that have wings (some of the models) should use them and think about it gargoyle possessed... and it would entirely justify their price... Also I had an idea that when you killed a possessed at the end of the combat the attacker unit would take a hit (kinda like Lucius) and for each model that dies a possesed may be placed into play within 6 in of that unit. P.S. I like the daemon trait thing... sounds coolz....

I'd rather have the beast rule to be honest. 12" movement, virtually ignoring terrain, with fleet. It's also nice and fluffy if you've read anything about the Gal Vorbak and their daemonic shenanigans.

Wishlisting aside, the models are really cool, but the ONLY time they've ever seen the table for me is bullet sponging for a PotV Sorceror.

Copy and Paste the Gal Vorbak possessed marine entry from the FW heresy book 2.

That about does it!

 Massaen wrote:
Copy and Paste the Gal Vorbak possessed marine entry from the FW heresy book 2.

That about does it!

For those not familiar (read: me lol), what does the gal vorbak statline look like?

200 points for 4 gal vorbak plus a champion

5, 4, 5, 5, 2, 5, 2, 8, 3+
5, 4, 5, 5, 3, 5, 3, 9, 3+

Power Armour, BP, BG, CCW, frag, krak

Daemon, stubborn, bulky, rage, rending (close combat only but stacks with special CCW), deep strike, Damned (never scoring)

+30 per additional model up to 5

1 in 5 can have a special weapon or power weapon
champ can have PW, PF, LC, pair of LC, MB, artificer armour

So zero randomness, multiple wounds, good CC ability, reasonably durable... a great unit. Bulky is the only real hindrance as you then need a land raider to get them to the target which in turn leads you to minimum squad size.

Strength and Toughness 5, two wounds each, initiative 5 (I think) and rending in close combat, on top of being daemons.

They are quite big, though, compared to 'normal' possessed....

Back in the era of Pete Haines, Possessed could *buy* their powers as upgrades; completely nonrandom.

Thought A: Allow them different types of "semi-random" upgrades they can have access to. Rampage is a potentially delicious one. Shooting attacks of a Daemonic variety would also be nice.

Thought B: Give the Possessed the option to purchase Brotherhood of Psykers USR. You select *one* discipline at Character creation and roll a D6 each psyker phase to determine what power you have for that phase; no gaining the Primaris due to Psychic Focus.

The problem for me is the chart; 1/3 of the time, they're great at TEQ/ MEQ clearing because of the extra attacks, and having rolled rending that turn. the rest of the time, they suck and aren't worth their points but the whole thing is pants because I don't know what to point them at. You could change the chart so that they are all worthwhile, then give them "+1" to their god marks. Mok gets rage, counter attack AND rampage. Nurgle gets +1T and shrounded, Slaanesh gets +1I and fleet or something and Tzeench gets +1 Invuln and brotherhood of psykers.

From poking around dakka, the least disruptive and least controversial method I've seen to help most codexes units with balance is to adjust costing or equipment options.

Throwing a free power sword on the possessed champion would reduce the relative value of the AP3 roll, and increase the relative value of the others. Costing can probably take care of the rest.

Marks though are going to take a little more work.

My easiest fix: Add infiltrate. It makes some sense fluff wise (sneaking among the loyal troops) it would get them into the action far faster/provide a screen for other troops...

I don't know. Seems worth considering anyway.

leerm02 wrote:

My easiest fix: Add infiltrate. It makes some sense fluff wise (sneaking among the loyal troops) it would get them into the action far faster/provide a screen for other troops...

I don't know. Seems worth considering anyway.

I think my orks would have a chance of noticing a bunch of "loyal" mutated guyz in power armor walking amongs them like nothing. Well...orks would at least get curions, i think.

Eh, they could always paint themselves orky :-)

Or, you know, magic!

leerm02 wrote:

Eh, they could always paint themselves orky :-)

Or, you know, magic!

They can't even throw nades! Not talking about painting themselves orky with all those limbs! Well...even if he'd be ok for ork's standards with such a crude crab-claw-paitjob, grots won't be so easy to fool.

On the other hand i can easilly imagine this situation:
A grot points his finger at a rumbling possessed space marine with crab claws and tentacles all around crudely painted green and screams: "AY, BOSS! IT AIN'T ORK!". Boss turns to a possessed space marine, sees that it's green and mean, turns back to grot, stomps the lil gobbo over the 'ead: "Ye'r ain't ork. Dis lad'z fine..."
Next week a kommando passing by to pick up some goods notices something suspecious going on. He stops near a painted possessed space marine. Possessed space marine continues rumbling. Ork kommando inspects it from head to toe than walks away. Than comes back and inspects it from toe to head once again. Possessed space marine continues rumbling. Kommando slowly walks away in another direction. He finds a boss.
Kommando: "Ay, boss, dere'z a pozesd space marine in yer kamp".
Boss: "NO WAYZ!"

Special rules:

Before the first turn after units have been deployed and infiltrated or scouted units or what ever. Select 1 unit of Space Marines (tacticals, assault, devastators, blood claw, grey hunters, long fangs, grey knights etc... any marine in power armor or scout armor) They must pass a leadership test. If they succeed, then they are un affected and the Owner of the Possessed Marines must select another unit which has not been chosen. If they fail, then remove as many models there are of Possessed Marines and replace as many models with Possessed Marines there are. Continue until all Possessed Marines are deployed.

That is what I would pay close to 30pts for!

 Filch wrote:
Special rules:

Before the first turn after units have been deployed and infiltrated or scouted units or what ever. Select 1 unit of Space Marines (tacticals, assault, devastators, blood claw, grey hunters, long fangs, grey knights etc... any marine in power armor or scout armor) They must pass a leadership test. If they succeed, then they are un affected and the Owner of the Possessed Marines must select another unit which has not been chosen. If they fail, then remove as many models there are of Possessed Marines and replace as many models with Possessed Marines there are. Continue until all Possessed Marines are deployed.

That is what I would pay close to 30pts for!

Seems a little good to just up and remove models before the game even officially starts.

Possessed are worthless for the 26ppm that they cost. Most worthlessness as the mutilators, warp talons, even Chosen!