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Hello everyone,

My friend and I are having a friendly argument about if you have to tell your opponent what unit is in what transport during deployment. I say you have to he is on the opposite side of the spectrum. I would appreciate your help with a page # to back it up. Thanks a lot

No idea if the rule is still in the rulebook or not (it was in previous editions), but not declaring which units are in which transports opens the game up to 'shell games' where the unit that hops out of any given transport is mysteriously the unit that is most needed at that particular part of the battle...



So, regardless of what the rules may or may not say on the topic, if you try to keep it secret against a lot of opponents, chances are your game will never get past the deployment phase.

I know it used to be a rule that you have to declare not only for the shell games, but because otherwise you could just throw, say, thirty chimeras on the board, twenty of which are empty as chaff as well

Even if the rules don't strictly require it (which I'm pretty sure they do, but I don't have a rulebook on me for reference), it's widely considered a super-dick-move to not reveal what's in a transport. Trying to pull that will get you instantly labeled as "that guy" in most any gaming circle.

I think it's ludicrous to have to reveal what unit is in what transport, but the community overwhelmingly supports doing it that way, so for the sake of playability its best to just bow to public pressure. I know at one point it was required by the rules.

To be fair, if you're playing with people you trust to not cheat, by all means keep the transports a mystery.

But it's far too open to abuse, otherwise.

I can't find anything concrete, the nearest thing is the Combined Reserve Units rule (p135). The mention in Deployment (p132) doesn't say you have to declare, and the rules in the Transport section make it obvious which unit is embarking.

Of course, you could house-rule it, either using a third party or maybe writing the unit on a piece of paper and placing it under the tank.

I didn't see anything about it in the BRB, but when I play friendly games we just mark which units are in which transports on paper and keep is secret. Our reasoning is more fluff based since there seems to be no ruling on it.... I mean, how can that ork warboss tell which rhino my captain is in?

If I remember right you don't have to declare, but should say when asked and should also keep it marked which is in what so they don't magically teleport around.

Id be ok with a note upside down, and only for the unit inside to be revealed when disembarking.

You cant ruse the opponent by rushing him with 3 rhinos since he knows which rhino contains the melta squad and blows it of the table first. transports would be far more effective if the opponent didn't know whats inside it until they disembark.

How did the unit get in the transport? If you deploy them in there you have to let your opponent know (and you should have full list disclosure so you know what unit is what), if they embark in there he has to let you know. So how is he getting them in there without telling you?

If you do show your opponent your list, then they will see up the dedicated transports you have. Nothing stopping them from then asking which one is which and figuring it out.

As for deploying inside non dedicated transports I think you should say, as you need to be open on your deployment. Would you hide a unit behind a building so your opponent couldnt see it and then intentionally not tell him it is there....

On the other hand though if both side are using transport I would have no problem if they both agreed either way. Writing down what is in each makes sense. I personally forget anyway, so I place a model on top (generally the Sergeant/special weapon/hq), so I don't accidentally rush the wrong tank forwards...

 FlingitNow wrote:
How did the unit get in the transport? If you deploy them in there you have to let your opponent know (and you should have full list disclosure so you know what unit is what), if they embark in there he has to let you know. So how is he getting them in there without telling you?

 Quanar wrote:
I can't find anything concrete, the nearest thing is the Combined Reserve Units rule (p135). The mention in Deployment (p132) doesn't say you have to declare, and the rules in the Transport section make it obvious which unit is embarking.

Of course, you could house-rule it, either using a third party or maybe writing the unit on a piece of paper and placing it under the tank.

This is how i'd see it. The rules for embarking (which will apply at deployment too) state this:

"When the unit embarks, remove it from the table and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported."

Now sure, you could say "the rule does not mention showing your opponent". I'd agree and it would still work:

If you place pieces of paper ("making a note") under each transport, and reveal them as the battle goes along, then you are breaking no rules (it could even be a fun game).
However, as others have said:
A) You must show your opponent your list, so a lot of the transport options can be guessed.
B) 'shell games' are not allowed. The rule above says you Noted which Unit is embarked, so they cannot walk out of another "more appropriate" Transport...

I personally don't like to declare whats in what, as fluff wise how would he know. However, i keep records of who's where on my copy of my roster, and most of my transports are company coloured and squad marked, so it wouldn't be too hard to guess. But me and most my opponents agree it adds another dimension cause you don't know where the melta squad is, or which is the empty Rhino.

But i do talk it over with my opponents before each battle, and if they don't like the idea i stick the sergeants on top of the relevant rhino for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But I havent yet found a rule saying you must tell them.

Write it down on a hidden piece of paper eg. "Rhino A -sternguard" "Rhino B -tacticals" being clear which is rhino A and B. Reveal when needed. A fair compromise between surprise element and fair play, simple as hell. I don't see who could argue with that....

 Harial89 wrote:
I personally don't like to declare whats in what, as fluff wise how would he know.

The enemy would know.

Things like Auspex, Heightened senses, Spies...

There are a ton of ways for the enemy to know what is where in a battle in the year 40K...

6th ed BRB embarking rules (p78) says you have to remove the models from the table while 'making a note that the unit is being transported.'

6th ed BRB fighting a battle; the armies - 'a note on secrecy' (p118) "To keep things fair, you should always allow your opponent to read your force roster after a game and always make it clear to your opponent which squads are embarked in which transports."

So in 6th edition you're allowed to keep your army list secret until after the game, but you have to tell your opponent what is in what vehicle at any time.

 Quanar wrote:
writing the unit on a piece of paper and placing it under the tank.

This is what I was going to suggest. It's actually not a bad idea, because in "real life" the enemy commander wouldn't know which unit is where, and therefore makes things more mysterious and fun.
(I know, I know, "The universe 38000 years in the future cannot be compared to the universe today. Maybe Plank's constant will have changed by then, or maybe humans won't be humans.")

I might suggest doing this in some of my games, although cutting up little bits of paper and keeping track of them will be a pain.

 Harial89 wrote:
I personally don't like to declare whats in what, as fluff wise how would he know. .

Psychic scrying.
Scouts observing the enemy's marshaling point.
Looking at the whopping great symbols painted on the roof of the vehicle
Auspex/Scanners/etc
Cameras on ships in orbit

Just off the top of my head...

 insaniak wrote:

 Harial89 wrote:
I personally don't like to declare whats in what, as fluff wise how would he know. .

Psychic scrying.
Scouts observing the enemy's marshaling point.
Looking at the whopping great symbols painted on the roof of the vehicle
Auspex/Scanners/etc
Cameras on ships in orbit

Just off the top of my head...

all good reasons, which is why i'm also happy to share who's where. But its always just an interesting discussion before battle to decide if we declare or not. I find it adds more fun to the game, as I dont know which transport is carrying the more dangerous cargo and have to think about priorities more.

But as i said before, and others said. no rule says you must (that we've found), but convention is you do if asked.

If you wish to play with transports being kept secret, then you have to secretly mark down which units are in which transport, preferably on a scrap of paper next to the transport.

There needs to be a way to verify that you aren't cheating by having a unit that was in Rhino A magically appears out of Rhino B.

Otherwise, open transports.

you do have to declare what is in what transport IIRC


you dont technically have to remind your opponent after this declaration, but you should still write it down somewhere at the beginning of the game and ensure its clear/recorded as to whats in what so no shell game is possible.

HIWPI is that I make it clear whats in what, and remind my opponent if they ask, as well as keeping track of it pre game.

 easysauce wrote:
you do have to declare what is in what transport IIRC.

Could people please stop making this claim unless they can provide an actual rules reference?

 insaniak wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
you do have to declare what is in what transport IIRC.

Could people please stop making this claim unless they can provide an actual rules reference?

The reason no one is pointing it out is that as far as I know it was only in 6th, not 7th. Keep in mind people still use a lot of rules from 6th as houserule though, so for a lot of people it "is a rule". Just one that they all assume should be used, not one that's in the book anymore.

As far as I'm aware it's a houserule for us to show what's in what transport, only because everyone does it anyways without being asked. I guess it's just become a common courtesy thing at our store.

Although I wouldn't mind if someone wanted to play with it kept secret I suppose, as long as it was clearly documented (a folded note on the vehicle that they show me the first time they make a shooting attack from the vehicle, for example).

not clearly written out. it's best to, unless you discuss with your opponent before hand and use some type of marker or writing it down before the game begins.

 insaniak wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
you do have to declare what is in what transport IIRC.

Could people please stop making this claim unless they can provide an actual rules reference?

See the embarking and deployment rules. How do you get a unit into a vehicle without your opponent knowing? There is nothing secret about deployment and you must move a unit to a transport and then remove it to get it in there mid game. You literally have no way of getting the unit into the transport without your opponent knowing.

So, you mean it's perfectly fine to run something like a truck rush with half the trucks empty? Taking into consideration that you can purchase FA trucks and dedicated trucks for stuff that doesn't ride them? It'd make them stupid powerful for 30-35 pts.

That's a very powerful thing to abuse for such a low price that transports pay. If you want to houserule it, to be like this, i'd at least increase the cost of transports.

 FlingitNow wrote:

See the embarking and deployment rules. How do you get a unit into a vehicle without your opponent knowing? There is nothing secret about deployment and you must move a unit to a transport and then remove it to get it in there mid game. You literally have no way of getting the unit into the transport without your opponent knowing.

Units that purchased a dedicated transport can begin the game inside the vehicle purchased as such. No where does it say you have to verbally tell your opponent that the vehicle is a dedicated transport or which ones were purchased as such.

It seems everyone has come to the same consensus here which is "doesn't specify in the rules, but courtesy says X, and if you wanted to keep it secret, do Y." Seems like we have a non-controversial rules discussion on Dakka, guys. It's a first.

There is a Rule that says you have to "Say" what is in the transports:

"When the unit embarks, remove it from the table and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported."

By the rules, you MUST make a Note of which Unit is embarked in which transport.

But Flingit, the above does not mention it is compulsory for your opponent to know which Unit is embarked (for you to show him your "Notes")

If we really want to go into the semantics, he would at least know which transports are empty: They are the ones you did not "make a Note" for. But the ones "with Notes" have no way of differentiating the Units embarked.

dsmith10 wrote:
. I mean, how can that ork warboss tell which rhino my captain is in?

Your average private in the army can tell exactly who is in an approaching HUMVEE simply by counting the number of antennas. Anytime you saw 3 or more antennas, you knew it was command level. If you saw 4 antennas, you knew it was the battalion commander. So, there is some real world precedence for figuring out who is in

Plus, given the space marine fluff for decorating the most venerated people, your captain's rhino probably would have all sorts of decorations and markings on it.